End of PFD in RCI points?????

[BocaBum99 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close BocaBum99]

Carolinian,

If you want RCI weeks to work the way you specify it, why don't you buy the company and do it your way? Until that day, I doubt it will end up the way you want it.

The bottom line is that resort groups are aggregating weeks and have tremendous power over exchange companies. They dictate the rules, not the exchange companies. As more high quality resort groups, such as the brand names, create their own internal exchange and points capabilities, they can create one way exchanges into the exchange company. And you know what? The majority of timeshare exchangers welcome those week deposits.

Any exchange company without developer relationships is weak at best. They need those free weeks to keep the exchange system in balance or the exchange credits will collapse it.

[timeos2 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close timeos2]

Its not one thing its everything

If 90% of the owners of the best weeks don't trade then the remaining pool can only be a maximum of 10%. Of that 10% (now down into a mere few hundred at most from your area) the majority bought with the idea of using not trading as that was the reason for timeshare 10-15 years ago when those units were mostly built. If they traded two or three times that would be a lot - yet they "know" that weeks trade used to be better before points and now it is points that have sapped the pool? What happened to the rentals that preceded points by nearly a decade? Those didn't impact? Then what is the lawsuit for?

Points owners have bought into the theories behind valuation such as a wider - but not unreasonable - top value period each use year. Plus they do not expect - nor do they get - premium value for a single week or two as they own a use period not a specific use week. They bought planning to trade more than those buyers of 15 years ago. They are most likely younger and more open to a more flexible type system rather than a regimented week use period.

The tendency in these arguments is to combine far too many unrelated ideas all under the banner of "we hate weeks/points". Rentals, which affect both, are a separate issue that neither points nor weeks created. The Internet and information sharing, easy access to community groups such as this and the growing number of timeshare resorts and owners have impacted things. The knowledge of those who own the best weeks - the ones most likely to be here - that there are better ways to get value out than dumping it into the unknown valuations of the strict week for week trade has had the most dramatic effect on availability - largely through the many and quality mini-systems that led to RCI's points answer. Not one of those things by itself could have impacted week trades and availability as much as we've all seen. But combined and each taking a share has decimated the old system and spread the value out over multiple groups none of which has a concentration of the inventory the way RCI once did. Not only has the golden age of week for week trades died but maybe the end of the one stop shop for all of the desirable inventory is a thing of the past as well.

Putting artificial firewalls up between groups would only hasten the rapid slide already seen of week for week trades being only the older, left overs from those that haven't joined newer systems. Ask the old Fairfield FAX members if that approach did well by them (hint, it didn't). If all RCI Weeks members want are the 20 year old resorts with fixed or float time to trade amongst themselves they don't need to look any farther than FAX to see the unpleasant results. If they want any hope of seeing even an occasional newer resort or a deposit from one of the many new resort mini-systems they had better hope that at least some cross pollination remains forever. The future is fairly bleak either way but cut off from the points systems weeks is a dead horse in 5 years or less.

[Carolinian Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Carolinian]

1. Points and rentals are directly related. The Points Partners had a lot to do with RCI's rental gambit. RCI takes Weeks inventory itself with its points from Points Partner reservations to rent to the general public to pay for Points Partner inventory. The grids they use to take the prime inventory from Weeks are downright fraudulent, grossly undervaluing prime Weeks inventory.

2. You work percentages too many times. The 10% is the percentage that is regularly exchanged in summer. The 90% is the group that bought to use.

3. While RCI may have done some renting for a longer period, when it really kicked into high gear with numerous outlets was AFTER the advent of Points.

4. If, as some such as you suggest, RCI points was an ''answer'' to mini-systems, then it backfired. RCI Points led several mini-systems to defect to II.

5. As to the connection between the rentals to the general public and points, I wish the special issue of the Seasons chain's newsletter was still up on their website. They fired a withering broadside at both RCI Points and RCI rentals to the general public when they announced their defection from RCI to II. That used to be a great link to put up because they said it so well.

6. Regular rentals of timeshare by individuals have been around as long as timeshare. That is NOT what is impacting exchanging to cause the huge downturn in exchanging. On the OBX, there is a local t's rental storefront business that has been around since the dawn of timesharing, and does a lot more business in OBX t/s rentals than all of the internet rental sites combined.
They are not the only business of this type in the timeshare world. You greatly overestimate the impact of internet timeshare rental sites.

7. You also overstate the impact of mini-systems. look at an RCI directory.
They do not make up that large of a percentage of affiliated resorts. Nor are they likely to. An article from a trade journal mentioned in Street Talk last year stated that the majority of timeshare units now in the pipeline were from independent developers.

8. Most timesharers want LOCATION and it is the older resorts often sitting on the prime locations, which the new kids just cannot get anymore many places.

9. The firewall is necessary as long as the RCI Points/Weeks interface is a one way crossover system where Points members have access to all Weeks prime inventory at a ridiculous generic grid that offers that inventory to them at bargain basement prices but Weeks members do not have access to Points inventory. Oh yes, RCI claims it replaces inventory that is taken but refuses to detail how, raising a red flag that it is not really equivalent inventory, and further an RCI employee posting on another site says from what he sees on RCI's computers they usually don't actually give back ANYTHING. Does Weeks need to cut the mooching Points system off at the pass? You betcha! The firewall will protect Weeks but may collapse Points as its members can no longer mooch our inventory.

10. There are much better ways to get value out of weeks than giving them up for frozen and rigged points values, where certain resorts are deliberately overpointed, usually to pander to developers in sales, and others shortchanged, and which factors in less relevent factors like award status and often ignores real supply/demand market factors. One of those ways is the more market-driven Weeks exchanging mechanism. And, yes, I know those of you who own in overbuilt areas prefer a rigged value system over a market-based one because it overvalues your resorts.

11. If Weeks and Points can fairly compete in the market, Weeks will clobber points as it did in the early days of timesharing when the very first timeshare was a points-based mini-system and the newer weeks-based system, originated by the French, left it in the dust. The only way for Weeks to lose that battle is to have the system rigged against them, like RCI is trying to do in its interface between Points and Weeks.

If 90% of the owners of the best weeks don't trade then the remaining pool can only be a maximum of 10%. Of that 10% (now down into a mere few hundred at most from your area) the majority bought with the idea of using not trading as that was the reason for timeshare 10-15 years ago when those units were mostly built. If they traded two or three times that would be a lot - yet they "know" that weeks trade used to be better before points and now it is points that have sapped the pool? What happened to the rentals that preceded points by nearly a decade? Those didn't impact? Then what is the lawsuit for?

Points owners have bought into the theories behind valuation such as a wider - but not unreasonable - top value period each use year. Plus they do not expect - nor do they get - premium value for a single week or two as they own a use period not a specific use week. They bought planning to trade more than those buyers of 15 years ago. They are most likely younger and more open to a more flexible type system rather than a regimented week use period.

The tendency in these arguments is to combine far too many unrelated ideas all under the banner of "we hate weeks/points". Rentals, which affect both, are a separate issue that neither points nor weeks created. The Internet and information sharing, easy access to community groups such as this and the growing number of timeshare resorts and owners have impacted things. The knowledge of those who own the best weeks - the ones most likely to be here - that there are better ways to get value out than dumping it into the unknown valuations of the strict week for week trade has had the most dramatic effect on availability - largely through the many and quality mini-systems that led to RCI's points answer. Not one of those things by itself could have impacted week trades and availability as much as we've all seen. But combined and each taking a share has decimated the old system and spread the value out over multiple groups none of which has a concentration of the inventory the way RCI once did. Not only has the golden age of week for week trades died but maybe the end of the one stop shop for all of the desirable inventory is a thing of the past as well.

Putting artificial firewalls up between groups would only hasten the rapid slide already seen of week for week trades being only the older, left overs from those that haven't joined newer systems. Ask the old Fairfield FAX members if that approach did well by them (hint, it didn't). If all RCI Weeks members want are the 20 year old resorts with fixed or float time to trade amongst themselves they don't need to look any farther than FAX to see the unpleasant results. If they want any hope of seeing even an occasional newer resort or a deposit from one of the many new resort mini-systems they had better hope that at least some cross pollination remains forever. The future is fairly bleak either way but cut off from the points systems weeks is a dead horse in 5 years or less.

[Jya-Ning Silver Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close Jya-Ning]

1. Points and rentals are directly related. The Points Partners had a lot to do with RCI's rental gambit. RCI takes Weeks inventory itself with its points from Points Partner reservations to rent to the general public to pay for Points Partner inventory. The grids they use to take the prime inventory from Weeks are downright fraudulent, grossly undervaluing prime Weeks inventory.

I believe that is more proper to describe buying from developer. Most of difference when buying is around 1 to 5 ratio (blue v.s Red/Red) for the same unit. Yet, just look at eBay, the true value probably is more like 1 to 10 or 1 to 100. And each developer will be different, so if you are asking an exchange company to balance the purchase price that will never success.

Listen, RCI just makes its own valuation, and developer has a say, exchange has a say, if it is open renting system when you have not put any of your money yet, then most of the time, the blue week will sit there. Hotel has avg 65% occupancy rate, that is what happen.

But exchange is between owner, it is a closed loop, you put in your stuff, if you don't take stuff out, you loss. So the difference in valuation can not be that high.

7. You also overstate the impact of mini-systems. look at an RCI directory.
They do not make up that large of a percentage of affiliated resorts. Nor are they likely to. An article from a trade journal mentioned in Street Talk last year stated that the majority of timeshare units now in the pipeline were from independent developers.

What they looking at? Just week's inventory v.s point inventory? Or a comparison of prime inventory?

US last year selling 10 B. Of this, top 5 public traded company has over 5.5 B. If your number is right 10% of prime week owner using exchange company. Then most of prime week exchange will be coming from developer. And since top 5 public trading company are all mini-system, it is very easy to see how it they shift gear will damage a so call perfect week excahnge system.

9. The firewall is necessary as long as the RCI Points/Weeks interface is a one way crossover system where Points members have access to all Weeks prime inventory at a ridiculous generic grid that offers that inventory to them at bargain basement prices but Weeks members do not have access to Points inventory. Oh yes, RCI claims it replaces inventory that is taken but refuses to detail how, raising a red flag that it is not really equivalent inventory, and further an RCI employee posting on another site says from what he sees on RCI's computers they usually don't actually give back ANYTHING. Does Weeks need to cut the mooching Points system off at the pass? You betcha! The firewall will protect Weeks but may collapse Points as its members can no longer mooch our inventory.

Agree, but be carefule what you wish for. Be a FF owner, I believe FF new resort should be all point resort, thus it should be only in point system. Yet I know for fact that most of the time, when it make deposit, it goes to week inventory. In fact, I don't know what may happen if there really is a firewall there.

10. There are much better ways to get value out of weeks than giving them up for frozen and rigged points values.

Agree, but if you are exchange company, it will not be 1 week deposit in, then the deposit take one week out. And you can also not to give AC out since you really don't own any AC. So for exchange company, there is no way to get value out unless they start a point system.

No matter how they make their point value, there will bound to have people look at it and say it is over value and people happy to deposit weeks because it is undervalue or more convient to them to use.

RCI point system is bad because it is frozon, it is favor to developer, and they try to pretend they want to protect general public by restricting everyone. And the way they try to prevent cherry pick, their computer system just could not handle. But if you look at comparison to their week system, you will realize that is much easy for anyone to develope and manage their computer system. And that can reduce the favorism play by VC to overwrite this and that, and that has a chance to become fair. And it has chance to float the point to reflect wht exchanger's value should be. It still can not get rid of the favorism to developer and still may not get rid of the biggest cherry picker in their system, but that need different disclosure. In the long run, if they put in wrong value, they will be out of business.

Jya-Ning

[BoardGirl Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close BoardGirl]

End of PFD?

Getting back to the thread-starter, I don't think PFD will be going away any time soon.

Regardless of how sloppily they may have implemented it, it brings in revenue and inventory. I expect they will continue to raise the fee (this is what RCI always does: raise the fee but not service level) until they find deposits start to drop off.

I believe their ultimate goal is One System, but I doubt they have it figured out yet and are hoping PFD can go along for a few more years.

[Jya-Ning Silver Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close Jya-Ning]

I believe their ultimate goal is One System, but I doubt they have it figured out yet and are hoping PFD can go along for a few more years.

Don't know if one system will ever happen. Different people like different system. It will take forever. And it always has need to cross every system, just don't know how big a need it will be 10 years from now.

As a customer, I would like be able to deposit my week and get to any resort I like go, and have a reasonable expectation to when can I get it or if there is any chance to get it. If I can not get it because there is no inventory, that is one story, but if there is an inventory, I would like to know what I need to get it. It is upto me to determine if I want to get it, or if it worth to get it. Be it point/week/mini. Be it RCI only/II only. If exchange can't not solve it, then rental will trump them in my category.

Jya-Ning

[opkansas Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close opkansas]

Don't know if one system will ever happen. Different people like different system. It will take forever. And it always has need to cross every system, just don't know how big a need it will be 10 years from now.

As a customer, I would like be able to deposit my week and get to any resort I like go, and have a reasonable expectation to when can I get it or if there is any chance to get it. If I can not get it because there is no inventory, that is one story, but if there is an inventory, I would like to know what I need to get it. It is upto me to determine if I want to get it, or if it worth to get it. Be it point/week/mini. Be it RCI only/II only. If exchange can't not solve it, then rental will trump them in my category.

Jya-Ning

VERY FINE ANSWER!

[taffy19 Gold Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close taffy19]

Don't know if one system will ever happen. Different people like different system. It will take forever. And it always has need to cross every system, just don't know how big a need it will be 10 years from now.

As a customer, I would like be able to deposit my week and get to any resort I like go, and have a reasonable expectation to when can I get it or if there is any chance to get it. If I can not get it because there is no inventory, that is one story, but if there is an inventory, I would like to know what I need to get it. It is upto me to determine if I want to get it, or if it worth to get it. Be it point/week/mini. Be it RCI only/II only. If exchange can't not solve it, then rental will trump them in my category.

Jya-Ning

It would happen if you would talk about cash values in Dollars, Euros or any world currency that is out there today. The way it is now, someone will be unhappy with the exchange values they give to their system.

[opkansas Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close opkansas]

PFB ending - NO WAY . . . at least RCI's opinion

Reference Madge's Inane Statement . . .

I JUST RECEIVED AN EMAIL THIS EVENING FROM RCI - 7-09-07.

An exciting way to get more RCI Points!

William and Mary Jane.

We want to remind you of a terrific benefit available to RCI Points members like you, who also own additional vacation week(s) at RCI Weeks-affiliated resorts – RCI Points for Deposit.

Our records indicate that you own an additional vacation week at:
XXXXXX XXXXX XXXXXXXX XXXX

RCI Points for Deposit allows you to deposit your vacation week in return for RCI Points. It’s a great way to combine the value of all of your vacation weeks into one powerful RCI Points account. Use your RCI Points for short getaways, long trips, airfare, hotels, rental cars and more.

Call an RCI Guide at 1-877-968-7476 to find out more.

Explore these possibilities and more with RCI Points