advice on buying first timeshare

[hotwired Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close hotwired]

(this post is duplicate but I was asked to post it here vs. the introductions)

Greetings!
My name is Ken LaVoie -- My wife Deb and I endured a pretty pleasant 50 minute spiel today, -- we were strong and united enough to say no, but we also felt, after talking to a couple of friends, that htere might indeed be some benefits to owning, at a reasonable price, as well as being a member of RCI.

We did leave today with 4 free round trip airline tickets (with restrictions of course), $50 home depot card, $300 grocery gift certificate and $100 "fun cash" to spend on any vacation booked using the 4 airline tickets. What we got, that might've been the MOST valuable was a crash course in how it all works, how it all comes together.

I'm going to regurgitate them all here in shorthand, and maybe you can let me know if I'm on the right track and maybe give some feedback on how best to approach the secondary market?

1. Okay, so you buy your points (or week) -- all resorts are graded by 4 basic things -- location, time of year, number of people that it will sleep, quality of resort (0-5 star). You buy "points" and these 4 criteria are assessed together to determine how many "points" each week sells for, or is worth. For our particular spiel we were offered 21,000 points for $10,900 financed at 15.9% (ouch!). This assumed a "4 sleeper" unit with annual maintenance of $295. A 40,000 point would be $395 per year. In addition, if you want to swap, there is a $138 fee to RCI to do so.

2. What is different about THESE new ones is that you can break up your week. So you can take 4 days in one place, 3 days in another. from what I can see, this is the ONLY difference between buying at a "spiel" and buying on the secondary market.

3. By being a member of RCI, you get to choose special deals from the "last call" inventory of unused weeks. These are available ONLY 0-45 days in advance, and cost the LESSER of 9,000 points or the lowest number of points that the resort charges -- so if the Palms Resort in Orlando is 21,000 points for a 2 BR in January, you still only pay 9,000 points. There is also a cash price alternative, usually $200-$300. So you can just pay that and STILL have all your points for another vacation.

4. On a side note, We live in rural Maine, 90 minutes from coast, and one advantage that I can see in owning locally is that if you want to take a cruise or another vacation that you cannot use your points for, you still have a "cheap" local vacation you can take any time at the coast of Maine -- just gas and groceries.

5. Are there any other fees, like for being member of RCI?

6. How does typical time share stack up agains DVC?

7. What is the typical fee increases? Maintenance and swap?

8. What is the difference between "points" and "weeks" -- ie, some timeshares, although you are DEEDED a specific week, you really buy "points" -- whereas some ts' simply deed a week with no point value ... is this simply a "verbiage" issue ??

Thanks VERY much! I hope to be an owner SOON!

[aliikai2 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close aliikai2]

I assume you are asking about RCI Points

(this post is duplicate but I was asked to post it here vs. the introductions)

Greetings!
My name is Ken LaVoie -- My wife Deb and I endured a pretty pleasant 50 minute spiel today, -- we were strong and united enough to say no, but we also felt, after talking to a couple of friends, that htere might indeed be some benefits to owning, at a reasonable price, as well as being a member of RCI.

We did leave today with 4 free round trip airline tickets (with restrictions of course), $50 home depot card, $300 grocery gift certificate and $100 "fun cash" to spend on any vacation booked using the 4 airline tickets. What we got, that might've been the MOST valuable was a crash course in how it all works, how it all comes together.

I'm going to regurgitate them all here in shorthand, and maybe you can let me know if I'm on the right track and maybe give some feedback on how best to approach the secondary market?

1. Okay, so you buy your points (or week) -- all resorts are graded by 4 basic things -- location, time of year, number of people that it will sleep, quality of resort (0-5 star). You buy "points" and these 4 criteria are assessed together to determine how many "points" each week sells for, or is worth. For our particular spiel we were offered 21,000 points for $10,900 financed at 15.9% (ouch!). This assumed a "4 sleeper" unit with annual maintenance of $295. A 40,000 point would be $395 per year. In addition, if you want to swap, there is a $138 fee to RCI to do so.

Points are points in RCI, these prices are very high as in the resale market a 21k ownership can be had for under $1500. You need to do a lot of reading here and Timeshare Users Group - The first and largest online community of timeshare owners providing timeshare resort reviews, timeshare ratings, FREE timeshare advice and FREE Timeshare Classified ads! regarding RCI points and points in general. I would never recommend owning such a small package, it won't get you anywhere for more a part of a week during off season.

2. What is different about THESE new ones is that you can break up your week. So you can take 4 days in one place, 3 days in another. from what I can see, this is the ONLY difference between buying at a "spiel" and buying on the secondary market.

Wrong, again points are points in RCI

3. By being a member of RCI, you get to choose special deals from the "last call" inventory of unused weeks. These are available ONLY 0-45 days in advance, and cost the LESSER of 9,000 points or the lowest number of points that the resort charges -- so if the Palms Resort in Orlando is 21,000 points for a 2 BR in January, you still only pay 9,000 points. There is also a cash price alternative, usually $200-$300. So you can just pay that and STILL have all your points for another vacation.

If the Palms resort is a weeks resort, then this could happen, if it is a points resort, it will always cost you whatever the points chart says, then trying to find a lot of prime weeks available for last minute bargains, just doesn't normally happen.

4. On a side note, We live in rural Maine, 90 minutes from coast, and one advantage that I can see in owning locally is that if you want to take a cruise or another vacation that you cannot use your points for, you still have a "cheap" local vacation you can take any time at the coast of Maine -- just gas and groceries.

No, unless you book your home resort week during your preferred period, you pay possible more points than you received, this is normally at 11 months in advance.

5. Are there any other fees, like for being member of RCI?

Yes, $199 per year to join, $99 per year to continue plus trade fees, etc

6. How does typical time share stack up agains DVC?

Disney Vacation Club is a timeshare, so I guess I don't understand your question.

7. What is the typical fee increases? Maintenance and swap?

They is nothing typical in the world of timeshare, each group/resort is it's own company.

8. What is the difference between "points" and "weeks" -- ie, some timeshares, although you are DEEDED a specific week, you really buy "points" -- whereas some ts' simply deed a week with no point value ... is this simply a "verbiage" issue ??

Here again, you really need to read, read, read, there are weeks only resorts, weeks resorts that sold some RCI points( so you can't trade there for a week as a points owner
There are very few points only resorts were you don't receive any type of deed, at least not in the RCI program.

Thanks VERY much! I hope to be an owner SOON!

fwiw,
Greg

[BocaBum99 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close BocaBum99]

You have barely scratched the surface of what you need to know to make a purchase. The best thing to do at this point is to post here what you care about in vacationing. RCI Points may not even be the right timeshare system for you.

Did you like the specific resort you visited? Or, did you like the flexibility in the product? Where do you typically like to travel? How often per year?

Once you give us this information, several of us will provide recommendations on which resort or resort groups you should consider. Then, you can either find one on your own or work with a reputable broker of that resort system to help you out.

Jim

[hotwired Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close hotwired]

Thank you!!

Thanks for your responses.

For aliikai2

1. I get it now, after researching a bit more -- you can either have a "weeks based" or "points" -- and they're not interchangeable, though I did find a website (TUG) -- who's owner will send info about a "trick" to exhange one for the other (I'm sure I'm all wet here, but just regurgitating!)

2. For the "local" question, I'd assumed if I buy a TS at "Boothbay Harbor Resort" for week 33, then I don't have to worry if I want to USE week 33, it's just if I want to stay at a different time that I may pay more, correct?

3. My question about DVC assumed that it was different, somehow, than the typical TS -- I think they last 50 years vs. forever as far as time goes. Are DVCs tradeable in RCI, though? That would seem like a benefit. I've heard some good feedback from people who've bought NEW DVCs, so maybe a DVC resale is a good "newbie" starting place?

4. For BocaBum99 -- We are a family of 3 - My wife, myself (early 40s) and 7 year old daughter. Been to Disney twice, doing a cruise this winter. Want to go to NYC soon, as well as "finish" the Orlando area (Sea world, etc.) and probably at least ONE MORE trip to Disney. On the horizon is Washington DC, when our daughter is teenager, London, Paris, etc. Grand Canyon. We vacation 1-2 weeks per year, and own a camper and do some of that during warmer months. My logic says "buy a TS here on the coast so that if we are doing a vacation that we cannot use our TS points or week for, at leasat we can have a "cheap" vacation on our own beautiful coast, 90 minutes away." -- I've heard though, that a better strategy might be to buy a "hot" week -- Orlando/RED -- which will give better trading power.

We will be "retiring" when our little one graduates (10 years) -- and will then travel to every place we've ever heard of -- Thailand, a few places in Central and South America, etc. China, Viet Nam, Cambodia, Africa ... We plan to be very mobile.

Thanks in advance for your advice. I've been researching now for ONE DAY and my head is spinning!

Ken
Winslow, Maine

[philsfan Administrator Find all posts View Profile Close philsfan]

Thanks for your responses.

For aliikai2

1. I get it now, after researching a bit more -- you can either have a "weeks based" or "points" -- and they're not interchangeable, though I did find a website (TUG) -- who's owner will send info about a "trick" to exhange one for the other (I'm sure I'm all wet here, but just regurgitating!)

I think the 'trick' is probably what RCI calls 'Points for Deposit'. That means that if you own points and you also own a weeks unit, you might be able to deposit your weeks unit for points.

2. For the "local" question, I'd assumed if I buy a TS at "Boothbay Harbor Resort" for week 33, then I don't have to worry if I want to USE week 33, it's just if I want to stay at a different time that I may pay more, correct?

If you buy points, you have to take action at a specific time to use your week at your points resort. If you don't, they will assume you want the points associated with your unit instead.

3. My question about DVC assumed that it was different, somehow, than the typical TS -- I think they last 50 years vs. forever as far as time goes. Are DVCs tradeable in RCI, though? That would seem like a benefit. I've heard some good feedback from people who've bought NEW DVCs, so maybe a DVC resale is a good "newbie" starting place?

You are talking about RTU or Right to Use where there is a specific expiration date. DVC is not the only RTU timeshare, there are many in Mexico and the Caribbean. DVC's are available for exchange in RCI since early this year.

My logic says "buy a TS here on the coast so that if we are doing a vacation that we cannot use our TS points or week for, at leasat we can have a "cheap" vacation on our own beautiful coast, 90 minutes away." -- I've heard though, that a better strategy might be to buy a "hot" week -- Orlando/RED -- which will give better trading power.

Orlando/Red is normally not a "hot" trading timeshare location. I can't speak for the DVC's but Orlando is generally overbuilt and timeshares there are not the best traders.

[EAM Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close EAM]

Dvc

DVC "Ownership Interests" have expiration dates. As I recall, BCV, BWV, VWL, OKW, VB, and HHI all expire Jan 31, 2042 (unless extended) and Saratoga Springs expires Jan 31, 2054. I don't know when AKL, BLT, etc. expire. I don't think anyone really knows what will happen at the expiration date, but you should not count on a DVC being available to you after the expiration date.

As of 2009, DVC trades in RCI. In the past, DVC traded in II.

[rikkis_playpen Diamond Club Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close rikkis_playpen]

Animal Kingdom deeded leasehold expires 1/31/2057.
Bay Lake Tower at the Contemporary deeded leasehold expires 1/31/2060.
Extended Old Key West expire 1/31/2057.

[rmitchell Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close rmitchell]

Remember that you may be stuck with only going to the place you buy and it's forever. Buy where you want to go to every year. Your children may also be stuck going there forever after you die by rules of the contract. Timeshares are a lot like nail fungus. They're hard to get rid of.

[philsfan Administrator Find all posts View Profile Close philsfan]

Remember that you may be stuck with only going to the place you buy and it's forever.

If that happens, you bought the wrong thing and/or all 6 or so exchange companies went out of business.

Buy where you want to go to every year.

I have never stayed in a timeshare that I own and I am very happy with what I own.

Timeshares are a lot like nail fungus. They're hard to get rid of.

Never had nail fungus but it's a fact, they are difficult to move.

[MaryH Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close MaryH]

hotwired,

It sounds as if you have not thought about what you want in detail and researched enough to commit any money right now. The same timeshare can have very difficult prices depending on how you bought it - from developer or resale or auction. Also it is likely a timeshare is not an investment and you might loss money on it so you need to factor that into you cost vs renting.

From some of the things you said, several areas / TS that might be worth you to investigate:

1. RCI 3 year point lease - see add on top. I looked into it a little but ended up buying into Hyatt program which I have stayed at for Key West and Carmel Highland and love the flexibility of their points.

2. HGVC - I don't like it as much since it is primarily Orlando, Las Vegas and Hawaii which are all overbuilt. But ownership in HGVC allow you to get open season within HGVC and trade externally and they do have a NYC City clubs but it would be very expansive.

3. Royal Holiday Club (RHC) - it has its detraction and issues but it is one of hte better ones if you want to get into Europe

I would suggest that you do some more research and if you and your wife are good at saying no, try to look into some of the owner referral links since that may allow you to access a vacation at a reduced rate and you can check the resort / program out. Alternatively, try to rent from owners of program / timeshare you are interested in to get your feed wet.

[hotwired Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close hotwired]

More questions!

Hi Maryh -- no we haven't done much in the way of reasearch buecause I just started researching monday. Before monday, I knew literally nothing, other than the basics. This is why I'm asking as many questions as possible to expose the "holes" in my understanding so you wonderful folks will help me fill them. Here's where my opinions are forming though, and please bump me left or right if I'm off base.

1. First, we would probably NEVER go ANYWHERE specific even 50% of the time. I cannot imagine in a million years picking the same place, even 2 out of 5 years, although we DO want to "finish off" Orlando, we will maybe go there 2 out of the next 5 years, but then that's it. Once 7 year old daughter is out of nest, wife and I would possibly hit Key West a few times, but even then that's not definite as we have a list of global goals, so to speak. We want to do a couple of train vacations too (Machu Pichu, Canadian Rockys, California coast) - so we also have some travel planned that we might not be able to use our points / weeks for.

2. Because of #1, there really is no TS location that would be perfect, because there is no geographic location that would be perfect.

3. Because of #1 and #2, my thought is to get either points or weeks attached to coastal, summer Maine -- weeks 25-35 would be ideal - mid June through end of august, though up to week 39 would be nice too. BEFORE I thought of this, I'd found hundreds of decent Florida weeks for 0-$3,000 - coastal, summer Maine (Ogunquit / Wells) are mostly 5-7K, but good MF ($300-$400). This way, if we take a vacation and don't use our points for it, we then have a quick summer getaway that requires only gasoline and food. And if we did not use it, it would be quite easy to rent to friends or people locally.

4. Now my BIGGEST confusion is between points and weeks. I understand the basics, but it just occured to me ... aren't points points?? In other words, if I decide to go with points based TS, does it even matter where I buy?? In other words, can't I just buy 100k points which will get me 100k points worht of TS anywhere ? Or does location STILL come into play with points?

Thanks again -- I hope I'm not wearing you all out!!

[tchr54 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close tchr54]

Housekeeping credits?

Hi folks,
I am a newbie here and I hope you will forgive me if this isn't the proper place for this question. I have heard a lot about buying resale, unfortunately a couple of years too late for us, but when you buy resale do you also get the housekeeping credits?
Thanks,
Ed and Kay from
the Slow-Me state
of Missouri

[rikkis_playpen Diamond Club Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close rikkis_playpen]

I'll assume you are referring to a Worldmark ownership..

Housekeeping credits with that program do transfer to the resale buyer. There were some grandfathered contracts that get free housekeeping- but those have become very hard to find...

Other programs may also charge housekeeping fees. You'll want to research the specific programs for details on each one.

[Lisa P Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Lisa P]

1. First, we would probably NEVER go ANYWHERE specific even 50% of the time.

Then a points-based ownership would probably work out better for you than a straight weeks-based ownership, although a Marriott may be an option with its many locations. Take a look around at the various (points-based?) programs and see if any of them include most of your desired timeshare destinations. You've mentioned Orlando, Washington DC, Grand Canyon, NYC, London, Paris in the next 10 years. Wyndham, RHC and Marriott would be good starts when looking at their website listings of resorts, maybe Sunterra/DRI?

I understand your idea about possibly using your local, drive-to, home resort in some years but if it's been converted to RCI points, you'd still need to plan ahead, to use your home resort.

... aren't points points?? In other words, if I decide to go with points based TS, does it even matter where I buy??

Yes, RCI Points are RCI Points and yes, where you buy matters... because of the maint fees associated with the ownership. You could purchase something for a high price, with high maint fees (perhaps due to insurance or amenities costs) and only get a small number of RCI points. Or you could purchase something at a much lower cost with low annual maint fees and get more points. Regarding RCI Points, most people seem to aim for 1 cent annual maint fees per RCI Point. Some like the idea of getting into a short term lease on RCI Points (just three years) to try it out. Look for the ads for Club Trinidad Resort and you may find those. Twin Rivers in Colorado is also putting together a lease program for adding PFD (Points-For-Deposit) to increase the total RCI Points at a very reasonable price per point. So if RCI Points appeals to you, consider starting with something like that, to get your feet wet with minimal start-up costs and a limited term of commitment.

If you decided that you wanted to own a regular week or points within a large, independent, mini-system (not an exchange company like RCI) where you reserve directly at various resorts within that system (no exchange fees), that's quite different from RCI Points. That'd be more like Wyndham, RHC, etc. The "best one" will depend on how you'd use it and where you want to go with it. So take your time and look around some more. Also, the exchange fees charged by II (Interval Int'l) and RCI Points are ~$139 domestic. With RCI Weeks, it's $164 domestic, more for international exchanges. With internal exchanges, inside of mini-systems, the reservation fees vary, anywhere from $0 (like Wyndham, WorldMark, and HGVC, I think) to ~$99, generally always less than the big exchange companies charge. II and RCI also change an annual membership fee, ~$80/year, regardless of the number of timeshares you own. A few of the smaller external exchange companies don't charge a membership fee, only an exchange fee. All these fees can add up but you only pay for what you use and the fees are normally lowest with internal systems.

Also, I don't know what price you were offered at the sales pitch but a good resale with one of the companies mentioned in this thread will likely run ~$100-$3,000 for annual ownership purchase. I'm guessing that the difference you'd save would more than cover a higher maint fee than what you've mentioned (which sounded, btw, like an offseason week to me, or EOY Every-Other-Year ownership with half the dues paid annually). But even if it has low maint fees and you like the place, only buy a resale there, probably for 75-90% less than the developer asks. If you want it in RCI Points, verify whether you'd have to convert the ownership to Points and find out the cost of doing so before you make an offer to buy. Conversion to RCI Points can cost a few thousand at some resorts, a real ripoff.

Since you mentioned DVC, you'd want to note that the people who are most satisfied with their DVC memberships are those who use them for DVC vacations every year. It's really way too expensive to use as a trader. Since you don't plan to go back to Disney but once, it's definitely not a good option for you. HTH.

[BocaBum99 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close BocaBum99]

Hi Maryh -- no we haven't done much in the way of reasearch buecause I just started researching monday. Before monday, I knew literally nothing, other than the basics. This is why I'm asking as many questions as possible to expose the "holes" in my understanding so you wonderful folks will help me fill them. Here's where my opinions are forming though, and please bump me left or right if I'm off base.

1. First, we would probably NEVER go ANYWHERE specific even 50% of the time. I cannot imagine in a million years picking the same place, even 2 out of 5 years, although we DO want to "finish off" Orlando, we will maybe go there 2 out of the next 5 years, but then that's it. Once 7 year old daughter is out of nest, wife and I would possibly hit Key West a few times, but even then that's not definite as we have a list of global goals, so to speak. We want to do a couple of train vacations too (Machu Pichu, Canadian Rockys, California coast) - so we also have some travel planned that we might not be able to use our points / weeks for.

2. Because of #1, there really is no TS location that would be perfect, because there is no geographic location that would be perfect.

3. Because of #1 and #2, my thought is to get either points or weeks attached to coastal, summer Maine -- weeks 25-35 would be ideal - mid June through end of august, though up to week 39 would be nice too. BEFORE I thought of this, I'd found hundreds of decent Florida weeks for 0-$3,000 - coastal, summer Maine (Ogunquit / Wells) are mostly 5-7K, but good MF ($300-$400). This way, if we take a vacation and don't use our points for it, we then have a quick summer getaway that requires only gasoline and food. And if we did not use it, it would be quite easy to rent to friends or people locally.

4. Now my BIGGEST confusion is between points and weeks. I understand the basics, but it just occured to me ... aren't points points?? In other words, if I decide to go with points based TS, does it even matter where I buy?? In other words, can't I just buy 100k points which will get me 100k points worht of TS anywhere ? Or does location STILL come into play with points?

Thanks again -- I hope I'm not wearing you all out!!

I would recommend a points system with lots of resorts you would like to stay that is also an effective exchanger.

To pick a point system, you need to first decide the quality class you care about. If you are a high end person, then look into HGVC, Starwood, Hyatt, even Marriott if you travel a week at a time since it isn't points yet.

If you don't need the higher end resorts with the much higher maintenance fees, then look at the mid tier resort groups like Bluegreen, WorldMark, Wyndham, VI, Shell, Diamond, RCI Points, etc.

Find resorts you like first, then evaluate the maintenance fees and total cost of ownership and total cost of exchanging. What will happen is a picture will form in your mind's eye and one or more of the above will stand out. That is the one you should drill down on.

Once you've got a resort group, you can ask us questions about the best way to buy such a timeshare and how to use it most effectively.