RCI Weeks to offer value transparency - Finally!

[T. R. Oglodyte Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close T. R. Oglodyte]

I wonder if this will just be for the North American market for now, or if they will roll it all over the world?

This will be a real resort wrecker. HOA's need to move quickly to migrate their members to other exchange systems.

I agree. What a terrible thing it will be for people to know what they can expect to trade their week for before they deposit it. The whole timeshare world is going to crumble if blue week owners are allowed to increase the value of those weeks by using as upgrade boosters. [\sarcasm]

Geez, Steve. I would think you would be on this with almost no reservations. It seems to me this proposal, if implemented as John describes, will totally expose every flaw in the RCI system that you've been agitating about for years.

If RCI is gaming the values that will be obvious in what is being offered. Which will make it that much easier to make the case for using other exchange companies.

[Carolinian Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Carolinian]

I agree. What a terrible thing it will be for people to know what they can expect to trade their week for before they deposit it. The whole timeshare world is going to crumble if blue week owners are allowed to increase the value of those weeks by using as upgrade boosters. [\sarcasm]

Geez, Steve. I would think you would be on this with almost no reservations. It seems to me this proposal, if implemented as John describes, will totally expose every flaw in the RCI system that you've been agitating about for years.

If RCI is gaming the values that will be obvious in what is being offered. Which will make it that much easier to make the case for using other exchange companies.

The problem is that they are not likely to follow supply and demand rules, largely to pander to developers. Watch the values on overbuilt areas. We all know that Orlando most of the year has the same supply / demand profile as a blue week most anywhere, but I strongly doubt that RCI in a published system will be honest enough to give the true value. Published values will only be fair when the totality of the mechanism for setting them is made totally transparent. Unless I miss my guess, that is not likely to be part of the system. It is the backroom setting of numbers that makes RCI Points numbers racket such an absolute fraud.

[timeos2 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close timeos2]

Resort wrecker? Only if it deserves to be wrecked!

I wonder if this will just be for the North American market for now, or if they will roll it all over the world?

This will be a real resort wrecker. HOA's need to move quickly to migrate their members to other exchange systems.

This comment is a real disappointment to hear. What is more disruptive and "wrecks" value than hiding behind unknown, secret values? That is the core reason that for 20+ years timeshares and specifically exchange has carried the stigma of "trade anywhere you want" when sitting at the high pressure sales table that quickly becomes "you don't have the value" when the sale is made and the new owners (or not so new) find out that off season, reconverted motels or other less desirable ownership wasn't worth the upfront money OR the ongoing fees. If that was out of the box from the start - as it should be under this system - then costs/fees need to be in line (no more subsidies for the best by the lesser times or expecting other resorts to create value where there is none on its own) or it rightfully goes unsold.

If this type of comment prevails it is proof (to me at least) that all the talk of fairness and value in trade was just that - talk. When it comes down to it all the "enlightened" timeshare owners wanted was a backdoor way to get easy upgrades on the backs of those who bought poorly. Leveling the play field will help not hurt all owners but will most definitely hurt those who primarily wanted a subsidized to free ride.

To that I say sorry - the free ride may be over. I would applaud RCI rather than look for others to attempt to continue what amounts to a ongoing fraud.

[T. R. Oglodyte Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close T. R. Oglodyte]

The problem is that they are not likely to follow supply and demand rules, largely to pander to developers. Watch the values on overbuilt areas. We all know that Orlando most of the year has the same supply / demand profile as a blue week most anywhere, but I strongly doubt that RCI in a published system will be honest enough to give the true value. Published values will only be fair when the totality of the mechanism for setting them is made totally transparent. Unless I miss my guess, that is not likely to be part of the system. It is the backroom setting of numbers that makes RCI Points numbers racket such an absolute fraud.

I get it. You don't believe it's a good idea to give out information that shows when RCI is goosing values in favor of developers.

I get it. I don't understand how that's an advantage, but I do understand that is what you believe.

++++++

For myself I look at it this way.

When I buy steaks, what interests me are the prices the store has for its steak. I really don't care that the "mechanism for setting them [isn't] totally transparent". And I'm pretty sure that almost everyone else who is out shopping for steaks feels the same way.

Not only that, I'm certain that none of us gives a damn if the grocery store has cut some back-alley deal with an outfit such as the Black Angus Stockmens Trading Association of the Roanoke Delta that results in the store overpricing steaks produced by from cattle raised by BASTARDs.

If that BASTARD steak is overpriced, I don't buy it. I simply get my steaks someplace else. Others who feel as I do will do the same. Some folks who think BASTARDs are cool will pay the premium, but if the price for being a BASTARD is too high, the store is going to be stuck trying to figure out what to with a bunch of rotten BASTARDs

I utterly fail to see how it's any different with RCI. I utterly fail to see how knowing what a unit is worth before you deposit it with RCI in an way, shape, or fashion is a disservice to owners.

With values exposed, I fail to see why anyone should worry for one moment about favorable treatment for developers. If RCI overvalues weeks in a sweetheart deal with developers, what will happen is that the people who hold undervalued weeks will take their business somewhere else, leaving RCI holding a surfeit of overvalued weeks. In fact, that's already happening; having published data can only increase the flight as it becomes even more apparent when RCI is failing to adequately value someone's week.

That will pooch RCI, while the truly valuable weeks migrate to other exchange companies where the owners get value.

*******

Actually, perhaps the best thing in the world that could happen for independent exchange companies is exactly this - to have RCI publish trade values in this while goosing the system to artificially overvalue developer weeks and undervalue the truly valuable weeks. Whether or not the system is transparent is irrelevant.

All people need to know is what they can reasonably expect if they deposit a week. Knowing that they can start to comparison shop and deposit their week wherever they think they will get the better deal.

[logan115 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close logan115]

All people need to know is what they can reasonably expect if they deposit a week. Knowing that they can start to comparison shop and deposit their week wherever they think they will get the better deal.

I admit I've very "green" to the exchanging game, but would certainly think that this opens up opportunities to arbitrage between RCI, II, and the independent exchange companies (depending on which exchange companies you can use).

Chris

[bnoble Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close bnoble]

Chris the one thing that is constant is that the timeshare exchange game is always changing---the smart folks adapt to the new rules to find out how to maximize their value.

Making the rules public makes it easier to adapt to them. So, that's a good thing.

On the other hand, TS4M and TUG are filled with people who explore all the hidden nooks and crannies to find ways to exploit the system that most other people haven't figured out. When light shines on those nooks and crannies, more people figure them out, so the relative benefit of being "well-informed" goes down.

On balance, I think that's probably for the best, but a lot of people who benefit from opacity in exchange today will be very torqued off if and when this open-kimono scheme actually gets implemented.

[logan115 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close logan115]

Chris the one thing that is constant is that the timeshare exchange game is always changing---the smart folks adapt to the new rules to find out how to maximize their value.

Making the rules public makes it easier to adapt to them. So, that's a good thing.

On the other hand, TS4M and TUG are filled with people who explore all the hidden nooks and crannies to find ways to exploit the system that most other people haven't figured out. When light shines on those nooks and crannies, more people figure them out, so the relative benefit of being "well-informed" goes down.

On balance, I think that's probably for the best, but a lot of people who benefit from opacity in exchange today will be very torqued off if and when this open-kimono scheme actually gets implemented.

Makes sense Brian, starting to get that ingrained in my head (that the only constant is change). If this does happen in the 2 month timeframe referenced earlier, that coincides with the infamous 5/31 changes of last year so I guess it's something that I should assume will happen on a frequent basis. By way of comparison to what i know, guess it's akin to the changes in the DVC point charts the last two years.

Chris

[T. R. Oglodyte Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close T. R. Oglodyte]

I admit I've very "green" to the exchanging game, but would certainly think that this opens up opportunities to arbitrage between RCI, II, and the independent exchange companies (depending on which exchange companies you can use).

Chris

Precisely!!!

Your week becomes like currency. All you need to know is how what your week is worth (i.e., how much money do you have in your wallet) and how much the weeks are worth that are in the system (i.e., what the prices are for the goods in the shop).

Knowing that you can decide whether you want to do business there, or go somewhere else. No longer do you have to give your week, receiving some unknown value, and asking for other things without knowing what those are worth.

It seems to me that the only people who would favor that kind of blind system are those people who have spent time figuring out some of the rules or getting inside access, thus creating an edge for themselves in working the system. And the exchange companies, because they can manipulate the system freely behind the curtains, without anyone being the wiser as to any shenanigans they might be pulling off.

[timeos2 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close timeos2]

An interesting development, but again, since RCI will set these values, there is that limitation to be considered.

Since the system belongs to RCI and they stand to win (more business) or lose (less) who else would do the valuation? The owners? You think developers overvalue properties try giving that issue to the individuals. Everyone thinks what they bought is the best and deserves top value and everything they want is over valued. A third party that can see the whole picture is required and since RCI is the host they get to set the rules.


They are doing it now but in secret. All this does is open it up so owners can make a reasonable decision if it has value to them or not. Far better than simply hoping that whatever you have might be worth whatever you want - or maybe not. If RCI screws it up they are the ones to suffer so who is more likely to try to get it right?

I say give it a shot as a last ditch attempt to save the weeks system (s). Otherwise they are doomed to a footnote to the points based operations at some time. If you are a week for week fan hope it isn't too late to save it already.

[falmouth3 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close falmouth3]

I looked at the value that Redweek assigned to the week I wanted to exchange. It was ridiculously low. I decided not to deposit.

It will be the same with RCI and I may consider rejoining if they give it a decent value. In fact I have 2 weeks at different resorts. RCI has received 1 week from one resort and that was it. I've been happier getting my exchange week and one or two bonus weeks from SFX for my each of my deposits.

Sue

[bnoble Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close bnoble]

I wonder to what extent this will make Points harder to push. As I see it, the main benefits to Points is that (a) you know what you have and what takes to get what you want, (b) you can get change back when you trade down, and (c) you can combine two lesser weeks to get a better one.

As for all these discussions of value: I think John has the right idea. My sense is that owners tend to over-value the things they own---and sometimes by a lot---relative to what they want. When many people say "like for like", what they really mean is "I get better than I give."

[Sydney Contributor - Bronze Find all posts View Profile Close Sydney]

Looking forward to a finally transparent system that informs and empowers the timeshare owner. However, I suspect that there will be a lot of issues with devaluing and overvaluing weeks, and the ceasing of trade-ups which despite the flaws of the current system, redeemed it somewhat.

The values should be dynamic and not static to reflect supply and demand. I do not trust RCI to get it right. I agree that knowledge is better so at least members are no longer robbed in the dark but also agree with Carolinian that RCI will most likely overvalue and undervalue certain resorts to pander to the developers - just as they do in the RCI PTS system.

I also agree with 3kids4me that RCI will bring in a way to create more revenue by allowing people to trade up via an upgrade fee, which is akin to printing money and ripping off the members yet again - something at which RCI eminently excels.

[PeelBoy Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close PeelBoy]

That's a point system. Period. No matter how you call it .............. I like it though.

[Carolinian Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Carolinian]

On balance, I think that's probably for the best, but a lot of people who benefit from opacity in exchange today will be very torqued off if and when this open-kimono scheme actually gets implemented.

The problem is not that the system is opaque. An opaque system is fine as long as the entity running it does not have a conflict of interest in setting values. Indeed, it is better in that in creates no incentive for deveopers to try to collude to rig numbers in their favor since an opaque system yeilds no benefit to do that. The problem arises when they entity running the system starts putting its hand in the till taking weeks out to rent for its own benefit, which RCI is now doing on a broad scale. That crashes the integrity of an opaque system.

[Carolinian Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Carolinian]

The ONLY way that ANY set of numbers is going to have ANY integrity is for RCI to Make the full process of establishing the numbers fully transparent Otherwise we get the collusion between RCI and developers which riddles the corrupt RCI Points numbers racket.

Since the system belongs to RCI and they stand to win (more business) or lose (less) who else would do the valuation? The owners? You think developers overvalue properties try giving that issue to the individuals. Everyone thinks what they bought is the best and deserves top value and everything they want is over valued. A third party that can see the whole picture is required and since RCI is the host they get to set the rules.


They are doing it now but in secret. All this does is open it up so owners can make a reasonable decision if it has value to them or not. Far better than simply hoping that whatever you have might be worth whatever you want - or maybe not. If RCI screws it up they are the ones to suffer so who is more likely to try to get it right?

I say give it a shot as a last ditch attempt to save the weeks system (s). Otherwise they are doomed to a footnote to the points based operations at some time. If you are a week for week fan hope it isn't too late to save it already.