Trading Power

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

One of my neighbors in Florida owned a timeshare in Naples FL back in the late 70's.

Although you would think Naples would be a logical choice for a SW FL timeshare, it is not. Although there are a few lesser resorts in Naples, as far as resorts on the beach, it skips from Vanderbilt Beach to the north to Marco Island to the south.

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

Msprincess:

One thing about RCI TPUs is this:

The Exchange Planner enables you to see the Exchange Trading Power that has historically been needed to Exchange into a given region. Enter your desired region into the appropriate box and then select Show Results.

The information on the left shows the average historical Exchange Trading Power, while on the right you can select a timeframe and see the current number of available units for a specific date/region.

You can check areas and timeframes to get an idea of what it will take to trade into. In reality, that gauge does not show the truth difference for the time of year, such that peak times are undervalued. The gauge shows July at Breezy Point (example below) to be a 19. To compensate for the inaccuracy of this gauge, as if they knew it was inaccurate, you can now enter a specific month in a specific area and see how many units are available and the maximum and minimum trade value. The guage shows December in Orlando to be 19. When I entered December, 2012, it says there are 382 units available, the minimum is 5, and the maximum is 40.

When you check SW FL for February, the gauge says 19. When you check February, 2013, there are no units available.

What we can now see is only because of the classaction lawsuit, and may end at a set date not far off.

What I have been trying to say about exchanging, what it takes to get what you want, is that there are some basic truths, common sense, conventional wisdom . . . about exchanging, that generally hold true, across exchange companies, except for an occasional, irrational, inexplainable quirk . . . stuff that has been tampered with, stuff that someone experienced with searching and comparing with others over many years would know.

In it's simplicity, it is supply and demand. The more supply relative to demand, to less it takes to trade into, and vice versa.

Both the supply side and the demand side are relevant. A tough trade could be because of either a low number of resorts or a high number of requests for the area, or a combination.

That is also why the particular week comes into play. As you will find if you check Orlando resorts, it appears the last two weeks in March (Spring Break) and Weeks 51 and 52 (Christmas) are the only weeks that have enough demand to make it a tough trade, given the enormous number of units in Orlando. What the prospects has been told historically is that all of Orlando is Red!

A lot of hype goes into marketing weeks as strong traders when they are not. Any veteran owner/tour taker knows that every TS weasel everywhere says, "Our weeks trade to anywhere." Our first week long, long ago, in Orlando, was one week short of being a decent summer week. But, it was Red.

Because of a limited supply of resorts, peak summer weeks in places like Minnesota and Wisconsin are at a premium. Breezy Point, peak summer, is a 29 (the guage says it's a 19).

With RCI, because of their decision to be a prominent rental company, as long as they continue with that biz model, there will always be suspicion. So many prime weeks in popular areas have disappeared from the Exchange Pool, and they have always kept their actions secret, as being proprietary, that you can no longer trust what they do, anything.

Removing weeks that formerly went to subscribers as exchanges skews the supply and demand models, such that it takes more than it should to get something, or since some are no longer available, subscribers have to settle for something else. That lessens demand for what is really wanted and raises demand for stuff that is not really wanted.

In other words, it is no longer pure.

Another thing RCI seems to delight in doing is making changes that benefit some subscribers at the expense of others, pitting owners against each other. That can be see, and has always been the case, on these internet forums. Perhaps they believe that if we bicker with each other it will reduce some of the angst that should be directed at them.

[Ridewithme38 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Ridewithme38]

Interesting, a 1 bedroom peak summer at WVV is 27. Week 50 is 18. Weeks 51 & 52 are both 50!!!

The last two weeks of March . . . Spring Break . . . are 36.

That pretty much says it all about Orlando . . . . four good weeks!

27's not a good exchange value?

[chriskre Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close chriskre]

Deanna,

I too live in Florida. I go to Orlando alot too. I also go to the beach alot in Florida too. I would suggest that a good compromise for a Floridian with perks for mousevisits and beach time, along with a pretty decent trader in RCI is HGVC. Hilton has some great resorts that you could pick up as an affiliate in SW Florida which would give you plenty of points to trade in RCI thru the club when you weren't using your week or you could convert to HGVC points to trade internally in the HGVC system.

I own HGVC in orlando but I've yet to use my points there. There is almost always availability to rent from the club with very reasonable open season rates in Orlando, so although I own my points there, I'll probably rarely use them there. I'd much rather trade them to Marco Island, Ft. Myers, Sanibel within the HGVC club or do a nice RCI exchange like I did this year to Manhattan Club on New Years Eve.

Owning in Orlando has no bearing on your trade power in RCI so essentially you work around the TPU system, as you can trade with a fixed cross over grid for any unit in RCI. It's not good for the cheap stuff but great for the high TPU trades. Another way to get into HGVC is to buy into an affiliate resort and convert it to HGVC points which can trade in RCI on the years you don't want to use it.

Hilton can't be bought for $1 but it's still very reasonable for the return on investment you get by buying into the club. The affiliates can be purchased for as low as $500 with reasonable MF's of around $900-$1000 for 5000 HGVC points. In RCI 2400 points gets you any studio, 3500 gets you any 1 bedroom and 4800 gets you any 2 bedroom, 5800 gets you any 3 bedroom in high season. It's less for low season but you can find the grid if you want to pursue it further. You can also trade in RCI with your HGVC points for RCI points stays, so can stay for less than a week just like a regular RCI points member. It's very versatile and resale buyers are treated very well by Hilton. Can't say the same for other developers.

[pnappleprincess Member Find all posts View Profile Close pnappleprincess]

keep them coming.....

thank you all for such detailed responses! It really helps me to understand the basic concepts on how to choose a resort. Most of these I kind of already knew, but this is great because I am finding out the "whys" behind it.

[pnappleprincess Member Find all posts View Profile Close pnappleprincess]

Possible Systems

Deanna,

I too live in Florida. I go to Orlando alot too. I also go to the beach alot in Florida too. I would suggest that a good compromise for a Floridian with perks for mousevisits and beach time, along with a pretty decent trader in RCI is HGVC. Hilton has some great resorts that you could pick up as an affiliate in SW Florida which would give you plenty of points to trade in RCI thru the club when you weren't using your week or you could convert to HGVC points to trade internally in the HGVC system.

I own HGVC in orlando but I've yet to use my points there. There is almost always availability to rent from the club with very reasonable open season rates in Orlando, so although I own my points there, I'll probably rarely use them there. I'd much rather trade them to Marco Island, Ft. Myers, Sanibel within the HGVC club or do a nice RCI exchange like I did this year to Manhattan Club on New Years Eve.

WOW!!! Manhattan Club on NYE!!!! I am adding that to my wish list. LOL.

The systems that I wanted to look into were - HGVC, Wyndham (b/c of Bonnet Creek), a small independent one i read about on TUG where the association is run by the owners, and DVC (i still have pixie dust in my eyes).

But with the fear of owning (again) in an overdeveloped area, I was trying to figure out where I could buy and, like you said, still get to the beach and / or Orlando.

If I owned at HGVC, could I trade with SFX? Or would i need to trade with RCI? Or does it make the most sense to trade with RCI?

[Mark @SFX Industry Representative Find all posts View Profile Close Mark @SFX]

WOW!!! Manhattan Club on NYE!!!! I am adding that to my wish list. LOL.

The systems that I wanted to look into were - HGVC, Wyndham (b/c of Bonnet Creek), a small independent one i read about on TUG where the association is run by the owners, and DVC (i still have pixie dust in my eyes).

But with the fear of owning (again) in an overdeveloped area, I was trying to figure out where I could buy and, like you said, still get to the beach and / or Orlando.

If I owned at HGVC, could I trade with SFX? Or would i need to trade with RCI? Or does it make the most sense to trade with RCI?

If you owned at HGVC, you have the choice of trading with SFX or RCI.

Hope this helps...

Mark @sfx
Member Communications

[pnappleprincess Member Find all posts View Profile Close pnappleprincess]

Thanks!

Thanks Mark!

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

I know HGVC owners and most of them trade within HGVC.

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

I am done with this thread.

Good luck.

caveat emptor

[pnappleprincess Member Find all posts View Profile Close pnappleprincess]

Danka!!

I am done with this thread.

Good luck.

caveat emptor

Thanks for all of your feedback.

[chriskre Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close chriskre]

WOW!!! Manhattan Club on NYE!!!! I am adding that to my wish list. LOL.

The systems that I wanted to look into were - HGVC, Wyndham (b/c of Bonnet Creek), a small independent one i read about on TUG where the association is run by the owners, and DVC (i still have pixie dust in my eyes).

But with the fear of owning (again) in an overdeveloped area, I was trying to figure out where I could buy and, like you said, still get to the beach and / or Orlando.

If I owned at HGVC, could I trade with SFX? Or would i need to trade with RCI? Or does it make the most sense to trade with RCI?

To be honest, I'm of the belief that it's not good to be overly invested in any one system as the rules constantly change and you don't want to be stuck with a bunch of stuff that just won't work for you anymore. I understand that it's more work to learn multiple systems but IMO worth it.

Biennials and triennials work for me in this respect.
I own a biennial in HGVC. The club is sooooo flexible that I did a trade with my points that are 3 years away by borrowing for free to do the trade. If you buy your HGVC points from Seth Nock he will give you an upgraded membership with SFX for one year so you can try it out. I didn't do anything with it because you can't search unless you deposit, so honestly it was wasted, but there are many who are very happy with what SFX offers in exchange. They do have great rentals at nice resorts so it's worth joining just to have access to those even if you never deposit anything.

You CAN own HGVC in Orlando and still get into DVC. You can also do it with Wyndham points. You cannot with RCI points. Well some can and some can't but that's another issue.

You may want to also consider a small DVC package and bank and borrow for an every other year visit which can also be used at Vero and HHI beach resorts. I normally wouldn't deposit those points to ANYONE for exchange. It's not worth risking a blind exchange as they are too expensive to blindly trade. DVC is best used in DVC period. If you don't go to Mouseland alot then you'd be better off with an occasional trade in with another ownership. DVC does do well with private exchanges with people who have no desire to own anything else but maybe own alot of Wyndham, Bluegreen or Marriott points. I've been offered Harborside weeks, Hershey weeks, St. John and any Marriott I wanted in exchange for my DVC points, so they do still have quite a bit of value as a direct exchange option. Not everyone understands TPU's and the intricacies of getting a DVC unit with RCI.

[sbkyoshi Member Find all posts View Profile Close sbkyoshi]

Pineapple, this is just for your information, but if you're looking for maximum "trading power" and you own a fixed week that is RCI AFFILIATED, Wyndham has a program called Personal Interval Choice that is specifically for RCI weeks owners. What it means is that as long as you own at least 77,000 wyndham deeded points (not resale), you can bring in your property at WestGate for its worth in wyndham points. This allows you to make reservations as a Wyndham owner. (No annual dues or exchange fees). It's just a thought, but it eliminates "Trading Power" and RCI's availability issues. I think you can ask anybody on this forum about wyndham's availability and resorts and find that the difference is pretty noticeable.

Edit: You don't lose your deed @ westgate and can still go to it if you don't want to bring it into wyndham as points for a given year. (either use the week or convert it to points by depositing it into the PIC program)

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

Seriously!!!???

Wastegate and Fairham working together?

Really?

You're not kidding?

Will wonders ever cease?

Have they buried the hatchet from 1990?

Mr. Sleaze v. Ms. Dehaan
- - - - -
OK, here's a description of PIC:

http://tug2.net/timeshare_advice/wyn...C_program.html

Note that Wastegate is not mentioned, so it is not a program specifically between them and Wyndham. Because of the very bad blood between Mr. and RCI/Wyndham, I would be dubious that RCI/Wyndham would touch anything having to do with Wastegate without being ordered to by a court of law, which essentially why they allow WVV deposits.

I'm not saying it's not possible, but I would confirm it.

[sbkyoshi Member Find all posts View Profile Close sbkyoshi]

I'm at work right now so let me doublecheck with contracts, but typically, if it's DEEDED property and is in the RCI directory, we will PIC it with no issues

Edit: Both Westgate properties in Orlando can be PIC'd. Just doublechecked with our contracts office.