Now the Points people are crying too

[timeos2 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close timeos2]

The tale of mini's, weeks and points goes on

Only a person who has never used a mini would say this. The minis give an experienced owner access to anything available in the timesharing world.
You can buy into a mini and NEVER use any of their resorts.

Exactly. I respect Steve despite our obvious philosophical differences about seasonal vs year round areas and rated vs unranked resorts - but in this argument he is fighting with one arm tied behind his back. You simply cannot know the power and ease of use of the mini-systems or even the points systems in general if all you've ever done is to read about them. Having used both types it is clear the value is in the mini's & points in general vs the week for week model. I didn't believe it either until I tried it over 10 years ago. If he ever did give in and sample the feared dark side he might reluctantly change his view as well. But I doubt he'll ever give it a try.

and as I posted OY; you can't get what isn't there.

Another RCI points complaint - TUG Bulletin Board

Things must be getting VERY thin if points can't see anything.

I've read through the thread and while it seems you're saying the points crowd feels things have dried up there as well as in weeks the postings don't support that. 8 out of 10 say they are doing well with points. And certainly better than with weeks. As noted no system can see what isn't deposited or what is given away to outsiders by the middleman. RCI Points as well as Weeks would be much better off if there wasn't the appearance of hanky panky from the highly suspect operator of those systems. It's too bad if thats really happening but the class action won't change anything in time to save their sorry butts if they really are skimming the pool. By the time anything happens with that the system will be awash in nothing but the trashy seasonal times and weak bulk bankings while the good stuff will have fled to SFX, the mini-systems or private rentals. It won't take any court actions to kill RCI - the market will handle it very nicely on it's own thank you.

[T. R. Oglodyte Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close T. R. Oglodyte]

Only a person who has never used a mini would say this. The minis give an experienced owner access to anything available in the timesharing world.
You can buy into a mini and NEVER use any of their resorts.

Exactly correct.

Most timeshare owners buy a resort to use, not to trade, A mini merely extends that concept further, so that you have a home group of resorts, instead of a solitary resort.

For the owner that only exchanges occasionally, which is probably most owners, a mini provides a range of exchange opportunities without ever going through an exchange company and that can be booked far easier than using an exchange.

It cuts directly into the frequency with which an exchange company is used by the typical owner.

And all of the inventory being added by major developers is all in minis.

[Carolinian Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Carolinian]

Most mini can easily fill your travel need for say 5 to 10 years, even if you decide to travel at different resorts every year. I agree if you are very experience travel, you may find you don't need it at all, but same can be say to TS.

Jya-Ning

Only if you put the cart before the horse. Most travellers pick where they want to go and then consider accomodations there. Limiting ones choices to the smallish lists of a mini would rule out many options from the beginning. The operative word of a mini is after all ''mini''. The broad range of timeshare is much more likely to cover many, but admittedly not all options. My last two European trips, to the Istrian penisula in Croatia / Slovenia and to Serbia, Montenegro, and Macedonia, for example did not have any timeshare options.

[Carolinian Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Carolinian]

Only a person who has never used a mini would say this. The minis give an experienced owner access to anything available in the timesharing world.
You can buy into a mini and NEVER use any of their resorts.

If you go back and look at my post that you quoted, I specifically stated couched my comment in terms of exchanging only WITHIN the mini-system.

Now, if you want to trade outside the mini-system, that is back to using an exchange company, so using the mini in that way does NOT let you avoid using an exchange company.

[Carolinian Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Carolinian]

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And all of the inventory being added by major developers is all in minis.

However, if you look through the RCI directory, you will find that resorts associated with major developers are a small minority. Last year I posted an item from a major hotel trade publication that was noted in The Timeshare Beat that said that the majority of timeshare now in the pipeline was from independent developers, not the branded ''major'' developers.

[T. R. Oglodyte Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close T. R. Oglodyte]

However, if you look through the RCI directory, you will find that resorts associated with major developers are a small minority. Last year I posted an item from a major hotel trade publication that was noted in The Timeshare Beat that said that the majority of timeshare now in the pipeline was from independent developers, not the branded ''major'' developers.

I agree as regards the number of new resorts. But when the number of individual units is considered, I suspect that most of the actual inventory is being created by large developers and in minis.

Note that minis also include developers such as Berkeley, not just developers such as Marriott and Starwood. Successful developers build more resorts, and there are lots of rea$on$ for them to link their project as a mini. It makes it easier to sell the units, they get a cut of the money that would otherwise be going to the exchange company, and it makes it easier for them to lock themselves into the management contract.

***

For us, minis have been the logical answer to avoiding dealing with RCI. But we still find that we are members of RCI and II anyway through the minis.

[timeos2 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close timeos2]

For us, minis have been the logical answer to avoiding dealing with RCI. But we still find that we are members of RCI and II anyway through the minis.

With a priority that you can't get as an individual, paying owner. They have stacked the deck against the individual so why fight it? Enjoy the best of both worlds with an often time large group of "home" resorts to pick from or the whole world of RCI/II with priority power. Every ownership is a "tiger" trader in the mini-system world.

[T. R. Oglodyte Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close T. R. Oglodyte]

With a priority that you can't get as an individual, paying owner. They have stacked the deck against the individual so why fight it? Enjoy the best of both worlds with an often time large group of "home" resorts to pick from or the whole world of RCI/II with priority power. Every ownership is a "tiger" trader in the mini-system world.

Yep. Both RCI and II allow the minis to cherry pick the brightest red deposits in the general spacebank, while offering back pink weeks for those bright red ones.

I'm sure that is part of any dwindling supply of prime weeks. Without access to numbers, though, we don't know how significant or insignificant it might be.

*****

With a system such as Sunterra, the SunOptions required are fixed amounts (using a fixed point grid that makes the RCI points grid look as flexible as a Cirque gymnast) that ostensibly can pull any resort in the system.

For example, a 2-bedroom week at a "Premium" II resort in high season (i.e., the top of the line in the II system) costs 6500 SunOptions. With those 6500 SunOptions the Sunterra owner can get a 2-bedroom Disney OKW for 4th of July, if it's available. 6500 SunOptions is the number of SunOptions granted the owner of a peak season studio unit at Ridge on Sedona or Sedona Springs, for example. The owner of a 2-bedroom ocean front unit at Po'ipu (15,500 SunOptions) could bag two of those premium II 2-bedroom weeks with one of his Po'ipu weeks and still have 2500 SunOptions remaining in his account.

If you want to talk about a license to pillage the Spacebank, it's not the exchange company points systems that are unfair; it's the preferences the exchange companies grant to the minis.

Why do the exchange companies give such outrageous preferences to the minis? Because they need the minis. The minis bring prestige. The minis are also where the good new inventory comes from and because the minis feed the exchange companies developer weeks when the resorts are in the early stages of sales.

****

As John says, you can fight 'em or you can join 'em. You usually pay a bit more in annual fees joining a mini, but conveniently that amount is just about the same as the annual fees you would pay for an exchange company membership and your membership in the mini includes a membership in the major exchange company.

So if you want to use the major exchange companies, joining a mini doesn't cost you any more, but you get to move to the top of the food chain in the major exchange company system.

[BocaBum99 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close BocaBum99]

If you go back and look at my post that you quoted, I specifically stated couched my comment in terms of exchanging only WITHIN the mini-system.

Now, if you want to trade outside the mini-system, that is back to using an exchange company, so using the mini in that way does NOT let you avoid using an exchange company.

Who says you have to use an exchange company? You can do direct exchanges and rentals. If you own a larger mini, you have more to offer potential exchangers.

If I wanted, I could own the 3 minis I do now and NEVER use RCI and II ever again. All I would have to do is rent weeks that I own and rent or direct exchange for something else.

I still use RCI and II because I can still get massive trade ups. Last week, I stayed in the Marriott Waiohai in a 2 bedroom Oceanview unit for $310.96. This week, I am in the Wyndham Waikiki in a 2 bedroom unit. I paid $295 for it in a direct exchange. Both of these accommodations were acquired through the highly flawed weeks system which allows these types of unconscionable trade ups.

[ArtsieAng Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close ArtsieAng]

BB

I still use RCI and II because I can still get massive trade ups. Last week, I stayed in the Marriott Waiohai in a 2 bedroom Oceanview unit for $310.96. This week, I am in the Wyndham Waikiki in a 2 bedroom unit. I paid $295 for it in a direct exchange. Both of these accommodations were acquired through the highly flawed weeks system which allows these types of unconscionable trade ups.

Hey....wait a minute. What you're calling highly flawed, and unconscionable, is what I consider the most attractive, and desirable part of these systems.

[timeos2 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close timeos2]

Of course you do

Hey....wait a minute. What you're calling highly flawed, and unconscionable, is what I consider the most attractive, and desirable part of these systems.

You are not alone and that is the real reason some want to fight so hard to keep the old systems alive as they once were. Too much information out now for that to ever happen again.

[Jya-Ning Silver Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close Jya-Ning]

My last two European trips, to the Istrian penisula in Croatia / Slovenia and to Serbia, Montenegro, and Macedonia, for example did not have any timeshare options.

Then there is no difference what you own in a TS world, you will not be able to get there.

However, for most people that just explore the TS, there are a lot of places to go. So it make no difference there is no TS or not, they will be happy to just stay in places that has TS.

TS is not the only travel option. And in the end, maybe mini is not a good option to the person. However, one more thing mini-point system trump a single system is most of the systems usually has more owners than a single system that you can find in internet, together with point, it makes them very tradable. In other word, there is a resell market. For a single resort, the best week maybe very tradable, the less week is not. So it become very risky since you have to know the area well, the resort well to know which week is good.

Jya-Ning

[Carolinian Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Carolinian]

I still use RCI and II because I can still get massive trade ups. Last week, I stayed in the Marriott Waiohai in a 2 bedroom Oceanview unit for $310.96. This week, I am in the Wyndham Waikiki in a 2 bedroom unit. I paid $295 for it in a direct exchange. Both of these accommodations were acquired through the highly flawed weeks system which allows these types of unconscionable trade ups.

Obviously, you haven't considered the simple economic principles of supply and demand, which is the major difference seperating Points and Weeks systems. Points systems use frozen values (and in the case of RCI Points, values that are often rigged to favor certain types of resorts or areas and are therefore corrupt from the get go) which cannot respond to changes in supply and demand. Weeks systems are flexible in responding to supply and demand by constantly revising trading power to reflect the everchanging realities of the market. When a week that one might normally consider ''good'' is snagged for a mediocre week, it means that the market has not valued it so highly. There is enough supply in the market that its trade value has come down to the point that it can be snagged by that ''lesser'' week. That's not ''unconscionable'' or ''flawed''; it is the simple operation of the principles of supply and demand.

Points on the other hand, with its inflexible frozen values cannot adjust. That leaves ''excess'' inventory, and guess what happens to that? RCI rents it to the general public, of course! Why do you think RCI is trying to shove the exchange system in the direction of rigged frozen values in the first place?
Who benefits? RCI, of course!

Which do you consider more ''conscionable'' to do with good weeks that their is insufficient demand for in the system? Adjust the demand so that other timesharers can exchange for them, as happens in Weeks, or hand them to RCI to rent to the general public for RCI's profit as happens in Points?

Some of the strongest advocates of Points systems seem to come from owners in overbuilt areas. For such areas, the excess of supply over demand for much of the year means that a supply/demand based system like Weeks forces them to trade for what their week is really worth on the market. For them, Points is manna from heaven - rigged frozen point values that guarantee that they can always trade up due to the systematic overpointing of such overbuilt areas.

BTW, your terminology that you ''paid $295 for a week as a direct exchange'' seems odd. If it was a direct exchange with another owner, it was not through any exchange company, and I don't see how you paid for it if it fact it was an exchange. If you rented it for $295, then it was not an exchange in the first place but a rental.

[BocaBum99 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close BocaBum99]

Obviously, you haven't considered the simple economic principles of supply and demand, which is the major difference seperating Points and Weeks systems. Points systems use frozen values (and in the case of RCI Points, values that are often rigged to favor certain types of resorts or areas and are therefore corrupt from the get go) which cannot respond to changes in supply and demand. Weeks systems are flexible in responding to supply and demand by constantly revising trading power to reflect the everchanging realities of the market. When a week that one might normally consider ''good'' is snagged for a mediocre week, it means that the market has not valued it so highly. There is enough supply in the market that its trade value has come down to the point that it can be snagged by that ''lesser'' week. That's not ''unconscionable'' or ''flawed''; it is the simple operation of the principles of supply and demand.

Points on the other hand, with its inflexible frozen values cannot adjust. That leaves ''excess'' inventory, and guess what happens to that? RCI rents it to the general public, of course! Why do you think RCI is trying to shove the exchange system in the direction of rigged frozen values in the first place?
Who benefits? RCI, of course!

Which do you consider more ''conscionable'' to do with good weeks that their is insufficient demand for in the system? Adjust the demand so that other timesharers can exchange for them, as happens in Weeks, or hand them to RCI to rent to the general public for RCI's profit as happens in Points?

Some of the strongest advocates of Points systems seem to come from owners in overbuilt areas. For such areas, the excess of supply over demand for much of the year means that a supply/demand based system like Weeks forces them to trade for what their week is really worth on the market. For them, Points is manna from heaven - rigged frozen point values that guarantee that they can always trade up due to the systematic overpointing of such overbuilt areas.

BTW, your terminology that you ''paid $295 for a week as a direct exchange'' seems odd. If it was a direct exchange with another owner, it was not through any exchange company, and I don't see how you paid for it if it fact it was an exchange. If you rented it for $295, then it was not an exchange in the first place but a rental.

ROFLMAO. Do you actually believe what you write?

[lawren2 Malibu Beach Barbie & A Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close lawren2]

Let's not overlook the management company "mini-systems" I have been to over half of the Preferred Status Exchange resorts with no exchange fee.

TPI has their Premier Access which is a mini-system that allows trades within certain resorts at no exchange fee. Or if you wish to visit something outside the system you pay a discounted exchange fee.

Several people have been happy with ORE's system and I am hopeful that VRI will utilize that existing system going forward. That may become the largest mini system out there.

I own a resort in each of those scenarios. The other twist to these is the ability to pay a "trade-up" fee for unit size or season. I am in total agreement with this policy and see it as a benefit. If I have to have a 2 bedroom I am willing to pay for it. In most instances we are just fine with a 1 bedroom.

I have only used one of these mini-systems so far as RCI has been fulfilling our needs for many years. They no longer are and so my weeks aren't getting deposited with them. Obviously I am not alone.

Perhaps if they don't completely crash and burn, I will return as a member again to RCI as an empty nester. When we can go in May or October to wherever. Right now I need prime school vacation exchanges and those have become harder and harder to get with quality weeks deposits.