Now the Points people are crying too

[Carolinian Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Carolinian]

I guess this type of cheap shot comeback indicates you don't have a real answer for the issues raised.

'Nuf said!

ROFLMAO. Do you actually believe what you write?

[Carol C Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Carol C]

Who says you have to use an exchange company? You can do direct exchanges and rentals. If you own a larger mini, you have more to offer potential exchangers.

If I wanted, I could own the 3 minis I do now and NEVER use RCI and II ever again. All I would have to do is rent weeks that I own and rent or direct exchange for something else.

I still use RCI and II because I can still get massive trade ups. Last week, I stayed in the Marriott Waiohai in a 2 bedroom Oceanview unit for $310.96. This week, I am in the Wyndham Waikiki in a 2 bedroom unit. I paid $295 for it in a direct exchange. Both of these accommodations were acquired through the highly flawed weeks system which allows these types of unconscionable trade ups.

Shhhhhhhh!!!!!!! Loose lips finish off sinking ships for good.

[lawren2 Malibu Beach Barbie & A Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close lawren2]

I've read through the thread and while it seems you're saying the points crowd feels things have dried up there as well as in weeks the postings don't support that. 8 out of 10 say they are doing well with points. And certainly better than with weeks. As noted no system can see what isn't deposited or what is given away to outsiders by the middleman. RCI Points as well as Weeks would be much better off if there wasn't the appearance of hanky panky from the highly suspect operator of those systems. It's too bad if thats really happening but the class action won't change anything in time to save their sorry butts if they really are skimming the pool. By the time anything happens with that the system will be awash in nothing but the trashy seasonal times and weak bulk bankings while the good stuff will have fled to SFX, the mini-systems or private rentals. It won't take any court actions to kill RCI - the market will handle it very nicely on it's own thank you.

John my impression from that thread and this one: anyone concerned about high supply of points and high demand of prime weeks? - TUG Bulletin Board is that nice resorts at prime time are becomming more and more DIFFICULT to get during prime seasons. There is getting what you want and there is accepting something very nice as a substitute. The more knowlegable exchangers are working way to hard with creditable weeks and or points to accomplish the objective.

We all can still see some nice things, both on weeks and points but not what used to be. Have I seen some nice holiday weeks in locations I would pack for? Of course. Obviously Gordon has with points as he posted some nice XMAS 2007 availability the other day.

The availability is much much lower in the last 2 years. My specialty has always been non-AI caribbean but since accepting the moderator job here I do tend to "look" at more places almost daily and focus on shool vacation periods. I can state honestly that the availability is dwindling nationwide. I do not believe it is totally driven by mini-systems; as most resorts in Cape Cod, Ocean City, MD, OBX and Coastal Florida are not part of any that I am currently aware of. Yet I find very very few during those timeframes that are acceptable trades.

Let's use Lawrence Welk Escondido as another example. I do not believe they are part of any mini-system. As late as summer 2005 they were an easy trade with an average to sub-average trader. Spring thru summer. I'm lucky if I catch a couple of weeks here or there on-line now with classically very strong traders.

RCI mouthpieces constantly say their "on-line/ no VC" customer is +/- 10% of the membership. SO WHERE ARE THESE WEEKS GOING?

[T. R. Oglodyte Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close T. R. Oglodyte]

John my impression from that thread and this one: anyone concerned about high supply of points and high demand of prime weeks? - TUG Bulletin Board is that nice resorts at prime time are becomming more and more DIFFICULT to get during prime seasons. There is getting what you want and there is accepting something very nice as a substitute. The more knowlegable exchangers are working way to hard with creditable weeks and or points to accomplish the objective.

We all can still see some nice things, both on weeks and points but not what used to be. Have I seen some nice holiday weeks in locations I would pack for? Of course. Obviously Gordon has with points as he posted some nice XMAS 2007 availability the other day.

The availability is much much lower in the last 2 years. My specialty has always been non-AI caribbean but since accepting the moderator job here I do tend to "look" at more places almost daily and focus on shool vacation periods. I can state honestly that the availability is dwindling nationwide. I do not believe it is driven by mini-systems; as most resorts in Cape Cod, Ocean City, MD, OBX and Coastal Florida are not part of any that I am currently aware of. Yet I find very very few during those timeframes that are acceptable trades.

Let's use Lawrence Welk Escondido as another example. I do not believe they are part of any mini-system. As late as summer 2005 they were an easy trade with an average to sub-average trader. Spring thru summer. I'm lucky if I catch a couple of weeks here or there on-line now with classically very strong traders.

RCI mouthpieces constantly say their "on-line/ no VC" customer is +/- 10% of the membership. SO WHERE ARE THESE WEEKS GOING?

Because we don't have data on deposits and requests, all we can do is speculate and play what-if games. So let's play the what-if with the minis scenarios.

If, in fact, there are fewer deposits of prime units coming in from the minis, there will be an increase in demand for the remaining weeks that are in the system. For a resort such as Welk, that means that there will be less Welk inventory in the system.

IOW - the fact that you're seeing less Welk doesn't say anything one way or the other about the impact (or lack thereof) of minis. All it means is that fewer Welk units sitting in the Spacebank, and there are any number of suppositions to explain that.

[lawren2 Malibu Beach Barbie & A Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close lawren2]

Yep. Both RCI and II allow the minis to cherry pick the brightest red deposits in the general spacebank, while offering back pink weeks for those bright red ones.
*****

For example, a 2-bedroom week at a "Premium" II resort in high season (i.e., the top of the line in the II system) costs 6500 SunOptions. With those 6500 SunOptions the Sunterra owner can get a 2-bedroom Disney OKW for 4th of July, if it's available. 6500 SunOptions is the number of SunOptions granted the owner of a peak season studio unit at Ridge on Sedona or Sedona Springs, for example. The owner of a 2-bedroom ocean front unit at Po'ipu (15,500 SunOptions) could bag two of those premium II 2-bedroom weeks with one of his Po'ipu weeks and still have 2500 SunOptions remaining in his account.

If you want to talk about a license to pillage the Spacebank, it's not the exchange company points systems that are unfair; it's the preferences the exchange companies grant to the minis.

Because we don't have data on deposits and requests, all we can do is speculate and play what-if games. So let's play the what-if with the minis scenarios.

If, in fact, there are fewer deposits of prime units coming in from the minis, there will be an increase in demand for the remaining weeks that are in the system. For a resort such as Welk, that means that there will be less Welk inventory in the system.

IOW - the fact that you're seeing less Welk doesn't say anything one way or the other about the impact (or lack thereof) of minis. All it means is that fewer Welk units sitting in the Spacebank, and there are any number of suppositions to explain that.

Steve, your statement has merit. I was flabbergasted at your post about Sunterra SunOptions points! Sunterra Ridge is one of the "red flags" that went up when I noticed that there were still bulk spacebanks for the resort BUT instead of what I had previously seen < and used > in the past was NOT what I see now. NOW I see weeks upon weeks of 1BDRM and studio deposits. The assumption <and yes I know what happens when one assumes > was that RCI itself was breaking up the lock-offs.

That post makes me think that perhaps in SOME cases the tail is wagging the dog.

You are correct that alot of my observations are indeed suppositions.

That does not improve my view of RCI as an exchange vehicle for people who are tied to a high season need for their vacations.

[timeos2 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close timeos2]

I don't think we can underestimate the impact that the "RCI is crooked" and "You can rent for less than own" mantras of the past few years has had on the deposits of the best weeks. It is self fulfilling. The best weeks hear that they can't get what they used to so they use or rent. There are less of them so the next step down finds they have to take less than they used to get so some of them stop depositing. Then there is the 80% that wants the best 20% of the time but the pool really is shrinking. Big chunks of the brand names are in exclusive deals that mean none of their top weeks will ever hit the pools. If any of the exchange middlemen are skimming some of the remaining decent time things get even worse. The mini's are most likely the main cause of the fall off in availability for individual owners with use and rentals by the best owners in second place. RCI saw that coming and started the more universal "mini" points system but the implementation may have killed any hope of that becoming the savior of the general use exchange systems. Now it looks like the 5-10 largest minis and straight rentals for cash without the middleman are the most likely big players in timeshares a decade from now. I don't see any of the all you can eat weeks exchanges willing to take any week in surviving as a major player.

[T. R. Oglodyte Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close T. R. Oglodyte]

Steve, your statement has merit. I was flabbergasted at your post about Sunterra SunOptions points! Sunterra Ridge is one of the "red flags" that went up when I noticed that there were still bulk spacebanks for the resort BUT instead of what I had previously seen < and used > in the past was NOT what I see now. NOW I see weeks upon weeks of 1BDRM and studio deposits. The assumption <and yes I know what happens when one assumes > was that RCI itself was breaking up the lock-offs.

Sunterra - the developer - is not affiliated with RCI. Thus, any Sunterra availability in RCI is owner deposited (or possibly resort deposited if the resort bulk banks).

Because reservations are handled by resorts using an inventory control system, I can't see any way that RCI could unilaterally break up lockouts. I think it would be remarkable if RCI were returning deposits back to the resort to have them broken up as lockouts and then returned back to RCI as two units instead of one.

[lawren2 Malibu Beach Barbie & A Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close lawren2]

Sunterra - the developer - is not affiliated with RCI. Thus, any Sunterra availability in RCI is owner deposited (or possibly resort deposited if the resort bulk banks).

Because reservations are handled by resorts using an inventory control system, I can't see any way that RCI could unilaterally break up lockouts. I think it would be remarkable if RCI were returning deposits back to the resort to have them broken up as lockouts and then returned back to RCI as two units instead of one.

I am NOT buying those bulk deposits in certain Sunterra properties as individual owner deposits. UNLESS they have certain resorts that they bulkbank and then assign to individuals who own float weeks who wish to deposit.

Now is it the individual, Sunterra or RCI that is causing the change in the lock-out deposits? Who knows? I can only state with confidence that I do NOT see 2 BDRM deposits at the Ridge anymore <but I stayed in one last April>.

[T. R. Oglodyte Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close T. R. Oglodyte]

I am NOT buying those bulk deposits in certain Sunterra properties as individual owner deposits. UNLESS they have certain resorts that they bulkbank and then assign to individuals who own float weeks who wish to deposit.

Now is it the individual, Sunterra or RCI that is causing the change in the lock-out deposits? Who knows? I can only state with confidence that I do NOT see 2 BDRM deposits at the Ridge anymore <but I stayed in one last April>.

Lawren - Let me see if I can make this more clear.

Sunterra is not affiliated with RCI. Sunterra terminated their developer membership entirely several years ago. There is no mechanism for Sunterra to give inventory to RCI, and from what I gather Sunterra has no interest in providing inventory to RCI.

That being said, many Sunterra resorts are affiliated with RCI, and depending on the policies of those resorts, the resorts may bulk bank as part of the process of owners using RCI as an exchange company. To use an example I am familiar with, the Point at Po'ipu bulk banks with RCI as part of owners exchanging through RCI - the bulk banking arrangement that was set up when the resort opened continues to operate (and probably accounts for the majority or exchanges into that resort).

But when the resort bulk banks, their overall goal is to balance deposits with owner demand. It's usually not in the resort's interest to deposit more units than they anticipate owners requesting, as that reduces availability to owners.

*****

In RCI there are developer memberships and owner memberships. If a developer terminates its membership, there is no longer a means for the developer to provide inventory to RCI.

[T. R. Oglodyte Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close T. R. Oglodyte]

Some expansion on my previous comment.

Let's say a developer is affiliated with RCI and sells 75% of the resort with RCI membership included. Then the developer switches to II and terminates the developer membership in RCI.

Even though the developer has switched to II, the bulk of exchange activity at the resort will continue to occur through RCI because more of the ownership is affiliated with RCI than with II.

If the resort bulk banks, most of the availability will remain with RCI and it will appear as bulk deposits.

[lawren2 Malibu Beach Barbie & A Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close lawren2]

Steve.

Gotcha. Duh.


I am currently looking for something re: deposit info for week 13 that I received directly from RCI. Since I never delete anything it may take a while...

[lawren2 Malibu Beach Barbie & A Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close lawren2]

I am currently looking for something re: deposit info for week 13 that I received directly from RCI. Since I never delete anything it may take a while...

Found it...from an e-mail dated 8/8/06. 16 months into an on-going search that started March 30 2005 for March 30,31 and April 1 2007. YES YES I know my parameters were very, very narrow and timeshare does not work that way...but it HAD worked that way for over 10 years prior to this request.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

as a lot of you know I've had an on-going request for 3/30 thru 4/1/07 since 3/30/05 for a strict list of caribbean and SW Florida resorts. I'm using my cape winds 35 week.

We are now just a pinch over 7 months before our planned travel dates and no match.

I finally asked on "Ask RCI" forum OY and Madge responded telling me to query feedback@rci.com which I did.

I just got their response in my e-mail and things don't look good. Here is an excerpt:

In reviewing your search,
we
do not see any VEP or Trading Power issues at work....What is happening
is that the search contains very narrow parameters for resorts where we
have received absolutely no deposits for the requested dates. In
2006, we received only 20 deposits among all of these resorts for the
same week. Your search as you have it structured now is a longshot.

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Jim makes some very interesting and informative remarks in this thread regarding availability.

http://www.timeshareforums.com/forum...g-trouble.html

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The resorts that were being looked for:

0045 Plantation Beach Club at South Seas
0132 Sanibel Beach Club II
0229 Casa Ybel Resort
0344 The Surf Club of Marco
0613 The Charter Club of Marco Beach
0731 Eagle's Nest Beach Resort
0757 Sand Acres Beach Club
1853 Virgin Grand Villas
2023 Club Regency of Marco Island
2197 Shell Island Beach Club Resort
2765 Plantation House at South Seas Reso
3022 Tortuga Beach Club Resort
3023 Crane Beach Resort
3025 Windjammer Landing Villa Beach Reso
3042 Sanibel Cottages Resort
3044 The South Seas Club at South Seas R
3189 Sanibel Beach Club
3285 Lighthouse Resort & Club
3686 Bougainvillea Beach Resort
3870 Sunset Ridge Villas
4302 Westin Vacation Club-St. John
6390 Residences at the Crane
6926 Young Island Resort
7527 Trade Winds at Mimosa
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FWIW I did manage a HGVC S Beach trade for that week. Another resort that I never ever see anymore in high season.

[lawren2 Malibu Beach Barbie & A Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close lawren2]

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FWIW I did manage a HGVC S Beach trade for that week. Another resort that I never ever see anymore in high season.

Now about ME never, ever seeing what I eventually "settled for" in high season...Gordon DID see that same resort for XMAS 2007 in points the other day.

Nice EX-OP.

So apparently some things are making it thru still, again it is very very little. I have the trade test we all ran that included first quarter caribbean non-AI 2007 and there were few results there from anyone on weeks availability. The timeframe was too far out for Points folks.

[lawren2 Malibu Beach Barbie & A Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close lawren2]

the Point at Po'ipu bulk banks with RCI as part of owners exchanging through RCI - the bulk banking arrangement that was set up when the resort opened continues to operate (and probably accounts for the majority or exchanges into that resort).

Not anymore they don't.
I'll see a stray week or two on the odd occasion but no more bulk deposits from the 2 used to be embassy resorts in Hawaii.

[T. R. Oglodyte Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close T. R. Oglodyte]

Not anymore they don't.
I'll see a stray week or two on the odd occasion but no more bulk deposits from the 2 used to be embassy resorts in Hawaii.

Po'ipu definitely still bulk banks with RCI; that arrangement has not changed. So if you're looking for Po'ipu regularly with a week that you are sure will pull it, that means those the units Po'ipu is depositing are not making it to the general spacebank. Use that knowledge as a reference point for what is (or is not) making it to the spacebank.

I don't have information on the extent to which owners at Po'ipu may have joined Club Sunterra. To the extent owners have joined, that will reduce availability in RCI. And based on my checking at Club Sunterra, any available units that are not taken by Poi'pu owners during home resort advantage are quickly sucked up by other Club Sunterra members.

****

When you say you are not seeing bulk deposits, how far back in time would it be that you last recall seeing the large bulk deposits?