Predictions coming true...?

[katiemack Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close katiemack]

Points based systems are now changing the rules if the Wyndham fee price increases are any indicator.

Fees for guest certs, added costs to exchanges, housekeeping fees, and such seem to indicate that the points systems are pretty vulnerable to the whim of the developer wanting to add profit.

Points values are changing too....now I see that there are footnotes on certain t.s. exchanges. For example, South Mtn Resort in Phoenix has a note that folks who want a renovated unit will have to pony up more points.

I wonder, are your points values increasing also, each year, for your ownership, to match this new cost for exchanging? If the cost for an exchange is higher, does that mean your week's value also gets adjusted to a higher points value?

Or, as with all things points based (such as Freq. Flier miles) have the points systems figured out ways to get you to pony up more to get what was once less costly?

[tonyg Goomba & Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close tonyg]

I knew it would happen and said it many times. RCI will try to dry up the better deals and will adjust points more towards reality and this will be an ongoing process.

[bnoble Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close bnoble]

For the most part, the Wyndham fee increases don't affect me. I rarely need more than one GC per year, and the other fees never hit. So far, once a resort's point chart is published, it doesn't change. Some newer resorts cost more, others don't. That doesn't seem unreasonable.

External exchange costs are the same for me via Wyndham as any regular Weeks member.

[Carolinian Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Carolinian]

''Junk fees'' are becoming the rule in airline ff programs, with DL and US leading the race to the bottom. It looks like points-based timeshare has taken notice and playing ''monkey see - monkey do''.

Any timeshare program not run by an HOA elected by owners is a risky proposition for members. Developer management should be a huge red flag, especially if the resort is in points.

[Jya-Ning Silver Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close Jya-Ning]

At this moment, Wyndham's fee increase will not impact on me. In fact, it will help me since I got 1 free GC. In the long run (20 years from now), I can see its impact (when my kids has their own family and will want to use my TS to travel and if I loss my mind let them use it without ask them to pay the cost).

With newer resort attract more people, I actually get more availability at older resort. On the other hand, I can use RCI to get to it.

Not sure about renting point. With MF continue increase, it is very clear that price will not hold for long eventually. On the other hand, with economic so bad, I see some owner doing fire sale on renting, so private renting price prob. will not go up that dramstic, and market will rule in the long run.

I don't think if you use it self, you will feel too much impact at all.

Wyndham's point value once set does not change.

It is very uncomfortable that they constant make change on their rule. But most of the time, it will not impact on me or people that mainly used for themselves.

Jya-Ning

[PigsDad Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close PigsDad]

When buying into a points-based system, it would be wise to ensure the points are based on a specific size and week / season, instead of just generic points. That way, you are protected against your points being devalued.

For example, in the Hilton system (which I am familiar with), you own a particular size and category in a particular season of that resort. The size, category and season determine how many points it is worth. If Hilton wanted to raise the points it cost to stay in a 1BR ocean view during platinum season at the Kalia tower in Hawaii, they would have to give all owners of that particular unit/season type those extra points as well. Of course, Hilton has never raised the points of an existing property, and I don't ever expect them to do so.

Yes, new resorts may be valued at higher points, but at the time you buy your points you know exactly what that buys you in terms of existing resorts, and that has never changed.

Kurt

[T. R. Oglodyte Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close T. R. Oglodyte]

I don't understand what the difference is between having the value of week reassigned by changing point values or by having an exchange company simply changing the trade power.

Except, of course, that in a points system the owner knows right away when the value has changed and by how much it has been changed. Meanwhile the non-point owner doesn't figure it out until sometime later when they realize they can no longer make the trades they formerly could.

[timeos2 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close timeos2]

Virtually no effect and trades are always subject to differing values

I don't understand what the difference is between having the value of week reassigned by changing point values or by having an exchange company simply changing the trade power.

Except, of course, that in a points system the owner knows right away when the value has changed and by how much it has been changed. Meanwhile the non-point owner doesn't figure it out until sometime later when they realize they can no longer make the trades they formerly could.

Exactly. To say points based systems are more vulnerable than the mysteries of the unknown trade power is ridiculous. Other than the exact resort/unit size you actually own anything you want to trade for is subject to changing value. Doesn't matter if you are using known points values or unknown trade power you are at the mercy of the exchange agent. Using points you at least know where you stand, what you need and have methods (rent, borrow or buy more points) vs the simple "nothing available" and no options of secret weeks trade values.

As for the current changes to fees at Wyndham as others noted above if you use your points yourself it is unlikely you'll pay more. It really only affects those that are running rental businesses and it was never meant for that anyway.

[bnoble Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close bnoble]

Other than RCI Points, has any points system re-valued an ownership?

With newer resort attract more people, I actually get more availability at older resort. On the other hand, I can use RCI to get to it.

This is often a good thing. In Wyndham, it's often possible to get "lesser" resorts at what amounts to a discount by exchanging smaller deposits through RCI---at current costs, figure the exchange fee is equivalent to about 33K points. For example, I just booked a late June 2BR week at Smoky Mountains with a 70K red studio deposit. So I spent the equivalent of 103K points for a 166K unit. The points I saved on this unit can be used another time to book something internally at a newer (and more point-expensive) resort.

[bluka Member Find all posts View Profile Close bluka]

'point systems'

this thread can actually go back to another one originally postid by ArtsieAng on 05/30/2006 debating the pros and cons to owning a points based system.
Instead of raising the cost per point,or making newer resorts worth more points, perhaps this is a way of keeping the costs per point lower (to attract buyers) but then adding on other fees to make the final costs higher for the buyer increasing the profit for the developer?

[RESORT2ME Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close RESORT2ME]

I just looked at how many Wyndham points it takes for making deposits into the RCI space bank. I haven't checked in the last 7 years. Is it my imagination that the 77k increment used to be 70k?

Also, what dif does it make if you make 28k or 42k or 63k deposits... are they not equal as far as what they will pull? Why make deposits of 42 or 63? I'm sure RCI and Wyndham cares less or maybe welcomes members wasting their points.

[mshatty Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close mshatty]

I just looked at how many Wyndham points it takes for making deposits into the RCI space bank. I haven't checked in the last 7 years. Is it my imagination that the 77k increment used to be 70k?

Also, what dif does it make if you make 28k or 42k or 63k deposits... are they not equal as far as what they will pull? Why make deposits of 42 or 63? I'm sure RCI and Wyndham cares less or maybe welcomes members wasting their points.

The red studio is still 70k. A blue 2br is 77k.

[RESORT2ME Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close RESORT2ME]

Do I get the choice of telling Wyndham to deposit 70 rather than 77?

Are 28k or 42k or 63k deposits not equal as far as what they will pull? Why make deposits of 42 or 63?

[mshatty Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close mshatty]

Do I get the choice of telling Wyndham to deposit 70 rather than 77?

Are 28k or 42k or 63k deposits not equal as far as what they will pull? Why make deposits of 42 or 63?

Yes. You get to select the size of deposit to deposit. If you want a "searchable" week, you are supposed to use the deposit form that is online to request that. If there is not a "searchable" week available, Wyn may not make the deposit into RCI. If you want generic deposit (you can't search online), then one phone call to Wyn and have them make the deposits you want. If you want a searchable deposit, I would recommend a 1BR size vs a studio because Wyn just doesn't have that many resorts with studio units. Whereas, there are many 1BR units available.

I don't think there is much difference between the size deposits you listed. If you want a fair representation of what a deposit will pull, a red 70k studio will probably show you that. The 28k and 42k are a little weaker. I haven't made all that many deposits, but I have heard there is not too much difference between a 105k (red 1BR) and the 70k (red studio) deposit.-+

[RSHEP Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close RSHEP]

Wyndham Increases

Wyndham is not permitted to change the point total for a resort once the resort is established for sale. They can mix up the seasons, meaning what use to be prime time is now quiet time and vice versa; however the bottom line of all the points added up can never change. The new resorts will require more points because the cost to build them costs more and history has proven the new resorts are AWESOME! You wait to you stay at National Harbor, you will say wow.

The dollar cost per thousand points, retail $200 per thousand, will continue to go up even with the challenges in the economy. This is evident in the releases by the media; Timeshares safer from a recession and Wyndham’s continue sales success. Wyndham has raised cost significantly over the past 18 months because they feel they are just aligning their price points with other timeshares. It did not make since for Wyndham to be one of the cheapest cost timeshares when they are the largest timeshare company in the world with the most resorts and most owners.

What is changing is that people who normally could trade their deeds for a larger deed or a deed in a different area is becoming more challenging. In the last 30 days Wyndham has significantly changed the amount of fixed weeks that are allowed to be traded and has even limited several UDI deeds that too. Plus, they have put minimum trade options on several of the premier resorts; example to trade your deeds for a National Harbor deed requires 154,000 new points for anyone who owns under 700,000pts, 203,000 points if you own between 700,000 and 999,999 points, and 300,000 points if have a million points. Plus, if you do not have a price freeze you will see that the points are going for approximately $200 per thousand.

The maintenance fees will go up however the increase is in line with inflation; i.e lawn care supplies go up every year. My maintenance fees charged by $2 last year. The resort with the biggest change was AC but that was because of taxes implemented by the state; not Wyndham.

The increase in fees for the credit pool, guest cert, etc. ties in to people who use points for rental and the cost of providing better service to every owner; improved website, Wyndhamfun.com, Wyndham by request, etc. The increases should not have a material effect on owners who use their timeshare for their personal use.