No Paper Trail for RCI Rentals?

[lawren2 Malibu Beach Barbie & A Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close lawren2]

I also think it's a system limitation. Look, they have a big ole mainframe, not the most agile of systems to program. They made a workaround, it works.

So it looks a little funny to you if you already get exchange confirmations from them, but, so what?

Much is being made of what the form is that comes out. I'm more concerned with where the inventory comes from, not what stock it prints on.

It isn't so much the "form" that is making us go "huh". It may very well be as you and Boca say, a quick and dirty way to get this done through an existing program.

The issue becomes HOW RCI tallies these up at the end of the day. If they are sending exchange confirmations are they considering these successful matches/exchanges? Have they decided I didn't take two timeshare exchange week vacations last week but FOUR of them, even though two were Last Calls? That may be how they are coming up with the percentage of happy campers they claim to have served. When we know from our relatively small samples of RCI exchangers that this isn't the case.

and then we have the where are these coming from issue...

[lawren2 Malibu Beach Barbie & A Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close lawren2]

Darnit Lawren,

I spent a half hour looking for that post, I find it, I come here to post the link and you beat me to it.

Yes, that is one of the posts that I was referring to.

sorry I get like this at times when something peeks my interest.

So anyway, if that was the post you were referring to, it does not appear that RCI has changed anything about how they charge us as the tax was built in all along. It comes an no surprise that they charge more for using a VG to complete the transaction. I just hope they don't find a way to have the 0n-line system do what the VGs are manually doing today.

[T. R. Oglodyte Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close T. R. Oglodyte]

The issue becomes HOW RCI tallies these up at the end of the day. If they are sending exchange confirmations are they considering these successful matches/exchanges? Have they decided I didn't take two timeshare exchange week vacations last week but FOUR of them, even though two were Last Calls? That may be how they are coming up with the percentage of happy campers they claim to have served. When we know from our relatively small samples of RCI exchangers that this isn't the case.

and then we have the where are these coming from issue...

And the difference that this makes is ......???????

Personally, since I don't have any ownership interest in any exchange company, I really don't see any reason why I should care whether or how any given exchange company tallies happy or unhappy campers.

The only question that matters for me is how satsified I am with the exchanges I get. If I'm happy I will continue using them. If I'm unhappy I'll go someplace else or sell my timeshares.

Right now, we are phasing out our RCI membership. Not for any reason of dissatisfaction with the exchanges we have, but because it's so much easier for us to save money by doing internal trades within Raintree, to work with iselected independent exchange companies, and to do direct exchanges with other owners.

[BocaBum99 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close BocaBum99]

sorry I get like this at times when something peeks my interest.

So anyway, if that was the post you were referring to, it does not appear that RCI has changed anything about how they charge us as the tax was built in all along. It comes an no surprise that they charge more for using a VG to complete the transaction. I just hope they don't find a way to have the 0n-line system do what the VGs are manually doing today.

That's good to know that the taxes are built into the rentals. I still think that if a rental gets cancelled due to a hurricane that that represents failure to deliver and the fee should be returned. I guess that's too much to ask.

[lawren2 Malibu Beach Barbie & A Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close lawren2]

And the difference that this makes is ......???????

Personally, since I don't have any ownership interest in any exchange company, I really don't see any reason why I should care whether or how any given exchange company tallies happy or unhappy campers.

The only question that matters for me is how satsified I am with the exchanges I get. If I'm happy I will continue using them. If I'm unhappy I'll go someplace else or sell my timeshares.

Right now, we are phasing out our RCI membership. Not for any reason of dissatisfaction with the exchanges we have, but because it's so much easier for us to save money by doing internal trades within Raintree, to work with iselected independent exchange companies, and to do direct exchanges with other owners.

Which brings me to my current post on whether or not I will re-up my membership!

I am or at least have been a relatively pro-RCI weeks supporter for the 9 years I have been with them. We've had great exchanges at the times that worked for us even before the RCI on-line, internet and finding huge pools of information like TUG and here.

I have watched desireable Thanksgiving weeks become isolated sightings as well as Easter breaks over the last three or four years. It's becoming too much work to get what I want.

I will honestly say that things like Last Call and Extra Vacations are great when you can use them but I don't like the idea that my timeshare exchange company is puffing up it's success rate with rentals, while valid searches are going unfilled. If these opportunities existed 9 or even 3 years ago I would not have bought any timeshares. Why bother when others can shoulder the load of purchasing and I can cruise on in and grab a bargain like Smuggs in summer for $200/week?

I just hope my exchange doesn't fill for a while so I can continue playing with the one spacebanked week I do have and I can explore the independent option for a bit and see if I like what they do better.

[BoardGirl Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close BoardGirl]

And the difference that this makes is ......???????

Personally, since I don't have any ownership interest in any exchange company, I really don't see any reason why I should care whether or how any given exchange company tallies happy or unhappy campers.

The only question that matters for me is how satsified I am with the exchanges I get. If I'm happy I will continue using them. If I'm unhappy I'll go someplace else or sell my timeshares.

Yeah, this is where I'm at on it, too - I don't care. Stats don't get me to Boston. Like any other company, they can flimflam their numbers and make it perfectly legit with some footnotes. I don't think the paper outcome has anything to do with internal accounting for the time, but I don't know. You couldn't pay me enuf to take a job there to find out, either.

What they do with owner deposits does concern me. I actually think the increasing sophistication of the member base has much to do with how much harder it is to get the tough trades, but slight of hand with inventory would make it even harder.

[T. R. Oglodyte Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close T. R. Oglodyte]

It's becoming too much work to get what I want.

I will honestly say that things like Last Call and Extra Vacations are great when you can use them but I don't like the idea that my timeshare exchange company is puffing up it's success rate with rentals, while valid searches are going unfilled. If these opportunities existed 9 or even 3 years ago I would not have bought any timeshares. Why bother when others can shoulder the load of purchasing and I can cruise on in and grab a bargain like Smuggs in summer for $200/week?

I just hope my exchange doesn't fill for a while so I can continue playing with the one spacebanked week I do have and I can explore the independent option for a bit and see if I like what they do better.

As I've maintained from the earliest days of these discussions, all of the pontificating and huffing and puffing about exchange companies is just so much striving after the wind.

Buy and own a timeshare, use an exchange company, or whatever, for as long as it works for you. When it stops working for you, stop using it.

A simple, free market solution. While I might not own any Points resorts or concur with what RCI does, to paraphrase Voltaire, I staunchly defend RCI's right to operate it's business in whatever fashion it owners and managers sees fit. If I don't want other people infringing on my freedom, I need to defend the rights of others to enjoy their freedoms.

I oppose the nannies and moralists of this world who want to restrict the rights of other people to make choices that the nannies and moralists don't want them to make.

But I digress ... greatly!

*********

I think RCI sees the multi-resort systems as the big threat to exchanging. Consider my Raintree Vacation Club. When a multiresort system covers enough of the places a person wants to visit, the exchange company starts to become irrelevant. It's cheaper and easier to simply reserve space at a resort directly instead of paying extra fees and sweating an exchange process.

Cendant responded to this perceived threat in two ways. First, they acquired Fairfield and Worldmark, putting them directly into the multi-resort game themselves. Secondly, they developed RCI points which mimics the key features of a multi-resort point system.

Are their perceptions correct? Are they responding appropriately? I don't know, I really don't care, and ultimately it shouldn't make a bit of difference what I think. The decision ought to be made in the marketplace by the collective decision of hundreds or resort developers who decide what exchange company to affiliate with and hundreds of thousands of timeshare owners who either choose to continue using RCI or who chooe to stop exchanging or use a different exchange company.

What I do care about is the efforts of many other people who want to direct and control the ability of others to make decisions.

[Carolinian Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Carolinian]

It also makes you wonder if these are being counted when they report their membership numbers!

I can think of many reasons why this would be implemented other than there being a conspiracy to hide renters from resorts.

Here are two:

1) RCI wanted to create accounts for renters so that they could offer them other deals in the future.

2) When RCI found out that it was incorrectly subjecting themselves to sales tax liabilities and potential sales tax evasion, they decided to create a member registration process so that they could verify the location of the renter and map it to the location of the rental to determine sales tax liability and accounting.

I am not saying this is exactly what happened. But, it too, can explain this change in system.

[Carolinian Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Carolinian]

We should also be concerned when an exchange company's actions undermine the financial foundaitons of our resorts. If our resorts get in financial trouble, we pay the price in higher m/f's. Those who ignore this aspect of the equation are burying their heads in the sand.

Just not using them if you don't agree with their practices does not help our resorts stay on an even keel and avoid the rough waters roiled by RCI's new practices.

And the difference that this makes is ......???????

Personally, since I don't have any ownership interest in any exchange company, I really don't see any reason why I should care whether or how any given exchange company tallies happy or unhappy campers.

The only question that matters for me is how satsified I am with the exchanges I get. If I'm happy I will continue using them. If I'm unhappy I'll go someplace else or sell my timeshares.

Right now, we are phasing out our RCI membership. Not for any reason of dissatisfaction with the exchanges we have, but because it's so much easier for us to save money by doing internal trades within Raintree, to work with iselected independent exchange companies, and to do direct exchanges with other owners.

[T. R. Oglodyte Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close T. R. Oglodyte]

We should also be concerned when an exchange company's actions undermine the financial foundaitons of our resorts. ,,,

And that is a perfectly fine reason for a person to take their business elsewhere. That's no different than New Englanders in the of about 60 years ago boycotting textiles produced in the Carolinas.

There are lots of things that happen in the world that affect the financial foundations of many things that I own - my house, my car, my retirement portfolio. Some things affect my positively, but hurt others . Some things hrt me, but help others.

But I draw the line at using the power of government and the courts to infringe someone's freedom to act just because we don't like their decisions.

[tonyg Goomba & Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close tonyg]

RCI's numbers for exchanges in a year fell for two consecutive recent years, while exchange revenue increased (due to increased rates). Any reasonable business would be trying to change that decreasing exchange trend, but RCI doesn't seem to care. Their increased rental activity does nothing but hurt their members and affiliates by increasing associated costs, while it provides additional revenue for RCI. I think this whole situation smells of deceit and greed and inspires anti-RCI rhetoric. Job one should be providing exchanges, not keeping their activities and formulas secret.

[tennisWalt Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close tennisWalt]

Why Hide Rentals Under Exchanges?

As I've maintained from the earliest days of these discussions, all of the pontificating and huffing and puffing about exchange companies is just so much striving after the wind.

Buy and own a timeshare, use an exchange company, or whatever, for as long as it works for you. When it stops working for you, stop using it.

A simple, free market solution. While I might not own any Points resorts or concur with what RCI does, to paraphrase Voltaire, I staunchly defend RCI's right to operate it's business in whatever fashion it owners and managers sees fit. If I don't want other people infringing on my freedom, I need to defend the rights of others to enjoy their freedoms.

I oppose the nannies and moralists of this world who want to restrict the rights of other people to make choices that the nannies and moralists don't want them to make.

But I digress ... greatly!

*********

I think RCI sees the multi-resort systems as the big threat to exchanging. Consider my Raintree Vacation Club. When a multiresort system covers enough of the places a person wants to visit, the exchange company starts to become irrelevant. It's cheaper and easier to simply reserve space at a resort directly instead of paying extra fees and sweating an exchange process.

Cendant responded to this perceived threat in two ways. First, they acquired Fairfield and Worldmark, putting them directly into the multi-resort game themselves. Secondly, they developed RCI points which mimics the key features of a multi-resort point system.

Are their perceptions correct? Are they responding appropriately? I don't know, I really don't care, and ultimately it shouldn't make a bit of difference what I think. The decision ought to be made in the marketplace by the collective decision of hundreds or resort developers who decide what exchange company to affiliate with and hundreds of thousands of timeshare owners who either choose to continue using RCI or who chooe to stop exchanging or use a different exchange company.

What I do care about is the efforts of many other people who want to direct and control the ability of others to make decisions.

I agree with the your statement on the Marketplace. But as I pointed out the Beach Club and the Embassy Maui told me that they had no knowledge of the scope of RCI's rentals with their own spacebank weeks. In order for the marketplace to make any decisions, it needs the facts. Why is RCI hiding the facts about Exchanges and Rentals?

Another reason for RCI having a Rental Confirmation is so they can also list the Terms and Condidtions of the Rental. Such as, "If for any reason the your week is cancelled 14 days or less RCI will keep all of the rental fee."

According to Madge as stated on Ask RCI:

Our standard cancellation policy applies to Extra Vacations as well as one-for-one exchanges - it is not modified for natural disaster situations. It is, however, different for Extra Vacations than it is for one-for-one exchanges. Following shows the standard Extra Vacation cancellation guides:


Quote:
61 days or more in advance - 70% refund
60-15 days in advance - 50% refund
14 days or less in advance - no refund

The Consumer has a right to know the Terms and Conditions of the Rental with RCI.

Tug and Timeshare Forums readers may know the Terms and Conditions of RCI Rentals. But we are just a very small number in the timeshare world. How many Renters found out the hard way about the above stated Terms and Conditions after the Hurricanes?

Walt

[BocaBum99 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close BocaBum99]

I agree with the your statement on the Marketplace. But as I pointed out the Beach Club and the Embassy Maui told me that they had no knowledge of the scope of RCI's rentals with their own spacebank weeks. In order for the marketplace to make any decisions, it needs the facts. Why is RCI hiding the facts about Exchanges and Rentals?

As a few of us mentioned before, a very likely explanation is that this problem that you perceive is simply not on the RCI product managers priority list for new developments. It may be important to you, but probably not as important as other development items are to the company, its other customers and its shareholders.

On the broader topic of "hiding the facts" that you raise, I believe that weeks exchange systems fundamentally require hidden facts and information in order to operate effectively. If that information is exposed, then the system becomes unstable and potentially collapses.

What are some examples? Trading power formulas, exchange strategies such as "bait and switch", "loose lips, sink ships" techniques, sightings for tiger traders, renting of spacebank weeks by brokers, etc. Heck, even the most consumer friendly exchange company in DAE feels it cannot share with us its exchange statistics for competitive reasons. I wonder what is so proprietary about that data? Could it be that it exposes instability in the system? That is my guess.

[BoardGirl Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close BoardGirl]

I agree with the your statement on the Marketplace. But as I pointed out the Beach Club and the Embassy Maui told me that they had no knowledge of the scope of RCI's rentals with their own spacebank weeks. In order for the marketplace to make any decisions, it needs the facts. Why is RCI hiding the facts about Exchanges and Rentals?

Another reason for RCI having a Rental Confirmation is so they can also list the Terms and Condidtions of the Rental. Such as, "If for any reason the your week is cancelled 14 days or less RCI will keep all of the rental fee."

According to Madge as stated on Ask RCI:

Our standard cancellation policy applies to Extra Vacations as well as one-for-one exchanges - it is not modified for natural disaster situations. It is, however, different for Extra Vacations than it is for one-for-one exchanges. Following shows the standard Extra Vacation cancellation guides:


Quote:
61 days or more in advance - 70% refund
60-15 days in advance - 50% refund
14 days or less in advance - no refund

The Consumer has a right to know the Terms and Conditions of the Rental with RCI.

Tug and Timeshare Forums readers may know the Terms and Conditions of RCI Rentals. But we are just a very small number in the timeshare world. How many Renters found out the hard way about the above stated Terms and Conditions after the Hurricanes?

Walt

Sorry, I'm clearly not as heated up about this as you are.

First, if the resort cares what kind of program brought the visitor, they should ask. They can also take the matter up with RCI, if they care to. Perhaps it doesn't matter to them? I don't think that a rental CAN ONLY BE a rented spacebank, I just don't have the facts to support that. I also don't think a confirmation document is anything but a reservation, no matter how it was made. I don't necessarily agree that RCI is "hiding the facts" but I support their right to not broadcast it. Just because you think T&C should be on a confirmation doesn't make it a legal necessity.

Second, the marketplace only gives a damn about one fact: how much it costs to rent that week. John Q Public doesn't care how that week became available.

Thirdly, buyer beware. If you didn't ask about the cancellation policy, it's your own tough crap. While I don't necessarily like how they handle Act Of God cancellations, if it matters, people should ask before they agree to the transaction. It's not like we just started having Hurricane Seasons.

Fourth, I also support your right to be concerned about whatever you wish to be concerned about, even if it doesn't concern me at all.

[T. R. Oglodyte Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close T. R. Oglodyte]

I agree with the your statement on the Marketplace. But as I pointed out the Beach Club and the Embassy Maui told me that they had no knowledge of the scope of RCI's rentals with their own spacebank weeks. In order for the marketplace to make any decisions, it needs the facts. Why is RCI hiding the facts about Exchanges and Rentals?

Walt -

Whether or not a company discloses information is simply another marketplace issue - if enough consumers demand the information, companies will provide it. If not enough customers care about it, the company won't bother providing the information.

When I buy a car, I do care about the history of the car. There are a lot of of other people who demand that information, enough that the marketplace has responded by producing products such as CARFAX.

There is a cost to providing information about a product. And the marketplace determines if companies will provide that information, and the way the marketplace exerts that pressure is by people such as you deciding to not do business with RCI because they don't provide the information, and by resorts leaving RCI because RCI doesn't provide the information.

If enough people and resorts feel as you do, then RCI will respond by providing the information. If there aren't enough of you to make RCI respond, then there may be enough of you to support a "boutique" exchange market that does meet your needs.

The fact that RCI is not providing the information you want is not a failure of the marketplace; to the contrary, what you are seeing is the marketplace in action. And the marketplace is saying it isn't a big enough deal to enough people right now to justify the added cost involved in providing that information.

The failure of the marketplace ti give you the answer you want deosn't mean the marketplace isn't working. Instead it gives you the path to follow to get the information you want, viz., get enough people to join you to create the demand for the service you want.