Looking for guidance and have newbie questions

[Phil&Kim Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Phil&Kim]

Hi everyone,

First time poster here although I've read a bit but decided I needed to get some questions answered and find positive reinforcement so this is a 2 part post. If you only want to answer questions (or tell me to use the search option! I posted from work as this was on my mind so didn't search, sorry, I hope this won't be a bad start to our relationship ), go to the questions below, otherwise if you want to provide reinforcement and guidance, read the first part.

We went on vacation in November to Vegas and got cornered by some of the timeshare folks. I didn't expect them to be inside the hotels so we didn't realize who they were until they were doing their pitch. I thought they were hotel workers honestly and even asked them a question about picking up show ticket (the poor English answer should have been warning enough). But in the end we figured free food, sure, why not?

Anyways, we went to listen to the Grand View pitch and ignoring all that bullsh*t about deeds and will'ing it to your family etc., we were very interested in the thought of having frequent vacations in what are basically apartments or condos. Having a larger place to stay, a kitchen and living room appealed to us terribly. We also loved the idea of being able to trade it in for resorts in all parts of the world and GrandView is gold crown so seemed to be a good option. In the end we decided to go with the second smallest package available, which is to say 1 week every 2 years and 1 'extra' week a year. It wasn't a crazy amount of money so at worst if it ended up being a bust, we'd at least have it paid off within a year with refinancing.

Here is where I make it clear: We willingly bought the timeshare because we liked the options it should provides us.

Now, here is our first issue- which is why I'm feeling a bit depressed about the whole thing. We have been trying to refinance and are still within our period. However, Eldorado resorts has been playing dumb with us and 'losing' our Email confirmations informing them that we approve them billing 50% of the amount to our credit card. Even if we have 2 replies confirming receipt of our messages they are still playing dumb with us. Is this the kind of service we can expect from Berkley Group, RCI, Vacation Village, etc.? If they treat willing customers like this, I can't imagine how they treat the ones that feel like they got ripped off. Especially when it comes to RCI, I hope that they at least provide better service considering we are paying customers.

That said, is there a better way for us to get the refinance done? Our contract shows 2 dates, the 8th of December and the 25th, which I think is the important one. How do we get them to proceed with the refinance instead of trying to rip us off with the 17.9% rate over 7 years? Does anyone have the number for an agent at the Eldorado resorts finance area that is actually serious about their job? And if ever we get to our date and they tell us that we have to pay the 17.9% rates because we never requested a refinance, what are our options? Do we have to lawyer up or is there someone higher up in the chain we can contact with our proof that we've requested it on multiple occasions?

Now, to the second part of my thread, the questions :

1- The extra week appears to be a lie as if I understand correctly, you can technically book as many trips as you want a year with RCI? Or is that 'extra' week certificate actually a positive for us?
2- As a followup to that question, considering you can only book maybe a month in advance, can you even land a nice resort at which to stay? We were thinking of using this in Florida where it would cost us 139$ only for a week if we used a Vacation Village Resort. Are we dreaming in color and there is no chance we would get that?
3- When we deposit our deeded week (week 33), do we have to always take week 33 regardless of where we go or can we ask for any week? We are not summer travelers but prefer fall and winter. Week 33 in Vegas is about as much fun as putting your oven to 400 with the door open!
4- Speaking of depositing a week, if we plan 12 months in advance and submit the maximum number of gold resort options (we are very open to going anywhere), what are the odds we will get something? I've heard horror stories of people just not being able to get any success no matter who they talk to.
5- Following this train of thought, was Grand View a bad choice? I've read some horror stories online (including here!) about bugs and poor service, etc… Once you deposit a week, does it matter from which resort or do they only look at the fact that it's a gold, red rated resort and whatever other classifiers they use.

And finally, one last question.
For those who bought their timeshare willingly because they like the concept, do you think it was worth it and you would recommend it to your friends and family?

Thank you for taking the time to read this. And we do apologize as I'm sure a lot of the questions are asked (and answered) over and over. I did look at the FAQ's but did not see a 'newbie questions answered HERE with a big neon arrow. We hope the replies will be positive and not crush our dreams of pleasant vacations!
Phil and Kim

[Carolinian Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Carolinian]

1&2 - Not familiar with Berkley Group, so I don't know their policies.
3 - No, you are not restricted to week 33.
4 - You are certain to get something. Orlando, for example is almost always availible, as is Branson, Williamsburg, and Massanutten. In Europe, Spain and the Canary Islands have lots of availibility
5 - RCI looks mostly as supply and demand, not whether it is Gold Crown. Vegas is trending toward being overbuilt, so a lower supply / high demand area would have been better for trading. Southern California coast would have been best in that part of the country.

You might also try exchanging through the independent exchange companies:

Timeshares & Time Share Exchange Service-DAELive.com

sfx-resort.com

Trading Places International - Timeshare Rentals, Exchange, Resales, and Travel Services

HTSE

[rikkis_playpen Diamond Club Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close rikkis_playpen]

Refinancing....

Welcome!

I'd recommend you avoid the credit card if possible.. While the initial rate might be better, if you miss a payment for any reason- many cards have the ability to increase the rate to just about any number they choose (the loan you currently have will have a peak rate that can be charged.. Anything above that percentage would be considered usury. Credit cards aren't restricted in the same manner.)

Your first option should be to check with your personal bank or credit union. Either a signature line or a HELOC (if you own your home and aren't upside down) are possible options.

There are also a few lenders who specialize in timeshare loans. These normally require sterling credit, but if you are approved should drop your rate to around 13%. Not fantastic but would save you a few points. Visit www.timesharelending.net, Tammac Financial Corp., and www.firstagain.com to see if loans are possible via those venues. (Tammac and First Again aren't currently lending, but reports are both should be active again in the coming year- so you may want to check again in about a month).

Other than that, there aren't really many options. Spend plenty of time here to learn strategies to get the most from your ownership. As long as you use and enjoy the vacations- you'll be able to get value and satisfaction from your ownership! Don't worry too much about buying your first interval from the developer- most people do.. Later on, as you add to your ownership portfolio- you'll find that the resale market can give you incredible value and savings.

[Phil&Kim Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Phil&Kim]

Thank you for the answers, although Carolinian scares me a little. :P

I wondered if Vegas might not be overbuilt when we bought. It's amusing as in their pitch they imply that they are the most desirable and underbuilt area in the world.

Do you think that means that our trading power is basically zilch? Or once we deposit our week (or convert it to points? Haven't looked at that), should we still be safe and able to get one of our top 10 options in Spring or Fall if we are booking a year in advance? If not, it's pretty pointless to have deeded weeks if we are stuck with it <--- that would definitely push us into trying to exchange it.

For the bank thing, the credit card is only the method of payment, we will pay it right after. However, the issue is we can't even get them to do that! They are playing us saying they haven't received our requests even though we've sent it 3 times now to Eldorado and another to Vacation Village to ask for help this morning.

[deede Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close deede]

Phil & Kim,


I am not yet savvy enough to do a search for you, but you might want to look for a thread on this forum:

How to Rescind -- The Berkley Group & the Grandview


In the thread you will find the steps taken by one discontented purchaser, trying to get out of the contract w/their Las Vegas purchase.

There are names/phone nos/addresses, etc., for EVERYBODY who could possibly be involved in any transaction connected to the company. (Note: It appears the Berkley Group dba more than 60 different names. And a link is provided that lists most, if not all.)

There is a contact listed for the Mortgage co; the acctg svc dept; etc. In other words, there is lots of info you might find useful.

Good Luck,

In answer to one of your questions: I prolly would NOT recommend timesharing to my friends (I know I would NOT recommend to my family). Years ago, I would have, but not in recent years.

I do recommend taking vacations with family and friends, and I do love timesharing -- the OLD ways of timesharing. As long as you purchase to USE (as we did), and you can be satisfied with using/going back to the same resort/area each year, life can be beautiful.

Also, dealing with a certain management company at my resort has become a chore (at other resorts, the management company/developer "walks on water," according to owners at those resorts).

[Spence Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Spence]

Thank you for the answers, although Carolinian scares me a little. :P

I wondered if Vegas might not be overbuilt when we bought. It's amusing as in their pitch they imply that they are the most desirable and underbuilt area in the world.

Do you think that means that our trading power is basically zilch? Or once we deposit our week (or convert it to points? Haven't looked at that), should we still be safe and able to get one of our top 10 options in Spring or Fall if we are booking a year in advance? If not, it's pretty pointless to have deeded weeks if we are stuck with it <--- that would definitely push us into trying to exchange it.

For the bank thing, the credit card is only the method of payment, we will pay it right after. However, the issue is we can't even get them to do that! They are playing us saying they haven't received our requests even though we've sent it 3 times now to Eldorado and another to Vacation Village to ask for help this morning.

Every sales location insinuates that they are the most demanded location on Earth, after all, you came there. It is quickly ranking up with Orlando, Williamsburg, and Branson as overbuilt. That is not to say that it is not in demand, but it has more supply than demand, like for that balmy week 33. In many areas kids are already preparing to go back to school so demand for family summer travel is quickly falling off that point. Your trading power will be lower than average in my opinion, that's not to say that you can't get what you want from RCI. RCI has so much, even with their rental of deposited inventory and if your spring and fall travels are non-holiday you may do quite well. Booking a year in advance is a misnomer. You want to deposit as soon as you can and then request as far in the future as you can, this gives you the advantage of an ongoing search whenever what you want might show up. If what you want never gets deposited, you will never get it no matter how far in advance you deposit and/or request.

How have you sent your correspondence with the developer? You are probably exactly right in what you suppose and the only way to make them dance to the music is to send it by USPS Certified Mail and you can request a return receipt to make you feel good.

1- The extra week appears to be a lie as if I understand correctly, you can technically book as many trips as you want a year with RCI? Or is that 'extra' week certificate actually a positive for us?

Terminology is tricky, for each deposit you make you get one exchange, sometimes RCI will give you a bonus (extra) week if you have a highly desirable deposit but that bonus week is usually good for only last minute exchanges or predicted oversupply. RCI may also give you a bonus week for exchanging your week into an oversupply area in low season.

You can book as many extra getaways (or whatever they call it today) as you like with RCI. These are leftover weeks that they think won't be requested as an exchange. You pay cash.

2- As a followup to that question, considering you can only book maybe a month in advance, can you even land a nice resort at which to stay? We were thinking of using this in Florida where it would cost us 139$ only for a week if we used a Vacation Village Resort. Are we dreaming in color and there is no chance we would get that?

Sounds like you're referring to a developer specific program. For you to get a week within the time period you're asking about, it's either a low demand time and no one wants to go or someone canceled at the exact right moment for you. For you to get an exchange through RCI at the last minute it's either a low demand time and no one wants to go or someone canceled or deposited at the exact right moment for you.

3- When we deposit our deeded week (week 33), do we have to always take week 33 regardless of where we go or can we ask for any week? We are not summer travelers but prefer fall and winter. Week 33 in Vegas is about as much fun as putting your oven to 400 with the door open!

You can trade for any week in the bank for which the exchange company deems you have enough trade power.

4- Speaking of depositing a week, if we plan 12 months in advance and submit the maximum number of gold resort options (we are very open to going anywhere), what are the odds we will get something? I've heard horror stories of people just not being able to get any success no matter who they talk to.

The horror stories are true, salesmen give owners unrealistic expectations. Read these boards for a few months and you'll get the picture.

5- Following this train of thought, was Grand View a bad choice? I've read some horror stories online (including here!) about bugs and poor service, etc… Once you deposit a week, does it matter from which resort or do they only look at the fact that it's a gold, red rated resort and whatever other classifiers they use.

Unfortunately, my opinion is yes. Gold Crown and Red mean very little, although both the developer and the exchange company would have you believe otherwise, they are in cohoots. I have a 1BR week with a $239 MF that will out trade your week and most others, period. The real key is supply vs. demand and is location and week dependent.

Hopefully I got my experiences and opinions to you before someone else here leads you astray. Learn everything you can to make the best use of your purchase.

[Phil&Kim Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Phil&Kim]

Thanks Spence , you cleared some things up for use nicely.

It's not the end of the world for us as it'll be paid off within 12 months. What scares me is we want to use it and hope that we will be able to. RCI typically allows you to put in 10 different resorts (I think) when you exchange and we travel during school (outside of summer) so we're really hoping that even though our trading power is unfortunately essentially nearer the bottom that we will be able to get some desirable exchanges.

The whole experience though confirmed why timeshares get a bad rap. I find the concept very interesting and believe it could be positive but companies like the one we dealt it make it worst than going into a car dealership uninformed and paying 2500$ for undercarriage coating!

And if ever after a year or two we are seeing constant failure/disappointment, then we will either sell, give it or exchange it.

[Spence Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Spence]

Thanks Spence , you cleared some things up for use nicely.

It's not the end of the world for us as it'll be paid off within 12 months. What scares me is we want to use it and hope that we will be able to. RCI typically allows you to put in 10 different resorts (I think) when you exchange and we travel during school (outside of summer) so we're really hoping that even though our trading power is unfortunately essentially nearer the bottom that we will be able to get some desirable exchanges.

The whole experience though confirmed why timeshares get a bad rap. I find the concept very interesting and believe it could be positive but companies like the one we dealt it make it worst than going into a car dealership uninformed and paying 2500$ for undercarriage coating!

And if ever after a year or two we are seeing constant failure/disappointment, then we will either sell, give it or exchange it.

If you can travel when kids are IN SCHOOL, you have a chance at anything. Timeshares are a great concept, unfortunately, time can be as important as location meaning some time is worthless in some locations. The points systems try to remedy this problem but still don't do a perfect job. The salesmen tell you whatever they think you need to hear to buy. It's what's in the contract that counts. Like other people I know, they lie. You are exactly right about the rap and the comparisons.

[JWC Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close JWC]

First, I would rescind as soon as possible if that option is available to you. I believe that Las Vegas has been over built for a long time. Las Vegas is very easy to exchange into at any time of the year except for New Years. We have made 9 exchanges into Las Vegas. These were at the top timeshares including 5 exchanges into the HGVC/Flamingo and all exchanges were both 1 BR and 2 BR units.

If you want a good trader, buy coastal California and exchange into Las Vegas. In any event, whatever you want, buy resale for pennies on the dollar.

[Phil&Kim Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Phil&Kim]

Well, it's way too late to rescind without taking them to court. I doubt we can get out of it at all now... My fault for assuming they would tell us the truth.

I don't get it though, are they allowed to lie to us to sell us the product, isn't that false advertising? I mean during the presentation , they have this slide showing how Vegas is the hottest area for timeshares because they get so many tourists and have so few timeshares. Then they show another slide showing how their gold status, them being red, etc... essentially gives you as much trading power as you can imagine. They make a point to say 'Why would you ever trade below gold status, you only ever want to trade gold for gold' so for that one at least they imply you have the trading power.

And then when you sit with them at the end, the guy was showing us picture after picture of himself in locations like Hawaii all the while saying that it would be us.

Or am I mistaken and got caught up in the moment where they don't once imply any of this but leave you to make your own conclusions? So while they say all those thing and show pictures, they never once say it's because they own a timeshare in Vegas. They did say on multiple occasions 'You will likely never stay here again as you will always trade it for others you like' so that one I know for a fact was a lie.

I'm especially angered as I'd like to own a timeshare but it just appears that every single thing we were told about this one was a blatant lie.

The only advantage we have is our preferred trading months are April, May, September and October. I guess we will find out once RCI bothers to send us our joining package (it's been 7 weeks now!)

Thanks for the answer... although it's not what I wanted to hear

[JWC Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close JWC]

Of course it is false advertising. Yes, Las Vegas does get a lot of visitors but unlike other tourist destinations, very few stay more than 3 or 4 days. Now you are going to face the problem of dealing with RCI which is another set of problems.

Don't beat yourself up about buying from the developer. Many of us here on TUG have bought from a developer. Next time you should know that you can buy that same timeshare the developer charges $20,000 for on the resale market for a few hundred dollars.

Now that you own it, my suggestion is to learn how to maximize your use of it. You will learn a lot here on TUG. RCI is NOT the only exchange company. There are many independents that will give you mich better service at a lower cost.

[philsfan Administrator Find all posts View Profile Close philsfan]

Is this an RCI points or RCI weeks unit?

[Hobbitess Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Hobbitess]

For those who bought their timeshare willingly because they like the concept, do you think it was worth it and you would recommend it to your friends and family?

We think it's worth it, and would recommend it to friends and family, however I would recommend they buy resale as we did. From what I can tell, listening to long-term owners, Timeshares aren't as good a deal as they once were, but for a lot of us they're still a good deal.

we travel during school (outside of summer) so we're really hoping that even though our trading power is unfortunately essentially nearer the bottom that we will be able to get some desirable exchanges.

I think it's a lot harder to get your money's worth out of Timeshare if you're limited by the school year; we prefer traveling off season anyhow, which is part of the reason it's a great deal for us. You may never be too happy with the way you got into timeshare, but at this point your best bet is to see how you can get the best use of what you have. RCI may not be your best bet for trading, however if it comes with your TS and you're paying for it whether you want it or not, it's worth checking the Last Call and Extra Vacation listings. Or at least it is for us - I'm usually looking for someplace that sleeps eight, which can skew my perceptions a bit.

I don't get it though, are they allowed to lie to us to sell us the product, isn't that false advertising?

<CLIP>
Or am I mistaken and got caught up in the moment where they don't once imply any of this but leave you to make your own conclusions?

Bluegreen (a points system) goes through a routine on purchase where someone reads through a summary sheet and you agree that you understand what you're signing; they record your answers and have you sign the sheet. On that sheet is the reminder that anything the salesperson may have said that isn't in writing doesn't count. I would guess that other TS companies do something similar - have you sign something saying you understand that only the stuff outlined in the contract applies.

I know with Bluegreen, everything we were told was possible really is <i>possible</i> - technically. Whether it's likely you can do it when you want to is another story entirely. The one outright lie, IMHO, was the old canard about Timesharing being "an investment, like a house." Timeshares are more of "an investment, like a new car" - in that the minute you drive the car off the lot, it's worth much less than you paid for it.

Some salespeople lie, some don't - and some of the honest ones don't actually understand what they're selling, and so are as misleading as the outright liars! But I suspect people also hear things the salesperson didn't promise, or don't listen to the limitations - I've seen internet conversations on Bluegreen, where the caveats are in writing, but people still miss them, and I am sure the same thing happens in sales situations. It sure sounds like the guys talking to you said things that weren't true, but OTOH it's easy to mislead while still being factually accurate.

For instance, suppose they said the Las Vegas TS market is a hot market - for <i>sales</i>. That may be a strictly accurate statement, but what you're going to hear is that it's a hot market for trades, which isn't what they actually said but is a logical conclusion. And with RCI, gold is supposed to trade for gold (I think - what RCI actually does with trades is a great mystery to me...), so it's technically accurate to say that Las Vegas ownership x will trade for gold RCI unit elsewhere. But it may be the owners of the gold RCI unit you really want never trade it in, or the seasons don't match, or for whatever reason it's never actually possible to get the trade you want. If the salesperson just says, "This is how it's supposed to work," then they haven't lied, even though they know that the odds of it ever happening that way for you are slim to none.

They get away with it because it's so hard to prove, I suppose.