Unhappy developer purchasers

[ebram Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close ebram]

If someone bought from a developer and could only resell for less tha 40% of what eas paid, he could sue for fraud regardless of the signed contract. Since the purchase was made by an experienced entity to a novice, this would be an unconsionable deal subject to the rules governing fraud.Also the sales rep's representation would be fraud in the inducement which would void the contract. In most states the plaintiff could sue pro se not costing very much. For instance if the developer were part of Cendent you could sue in New Jersey. In any case you would cost the developer money to defend themselves with high power(expensive) law firms they use. They might be willing to settle to avoid court expenses.

[timeos2 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close timeos2]

For those ... we salute you!

Your title on TUG reminds me of the AC/DC cd - "For those about to rock we salute you"

A slight change to "For those who bought from developers - we salute you!" You help keep the resale pipeline filled with great timeshare bargains.

By the way since developers admit that 50% or more of the cost is in marketing how is it fraud?

[ebram Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close ebram]

Timeos2:

Yea, but they don't tell that to the purchaser during the sales presentation, do they? Thats fraud.

[4ARedOctober Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close 4ARedOctober]

Good luck.

I honestly don't think you have a leg to stand on....the agreement is in writing....that takes all precedence over any verbal promises...and that clause is likely in all the contracts....plus most places have a cooling off period where the contract can be reviewed and canceled with a certain period...so the did not have enough time to think about it argument doesn't wash either......go ahead and try....just be prepared to pay the developers legal fees.

As reprehensible as many developers are the way they pitch heat to make sales....they are not that stupid to leave themselves wide open for lawsuits of this type.....you may be better off trying to shake them down with an ADA lawsuit....and then I also say good luck.

[4ARedOctober Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close 4ARedOctober]

If you want to really get them....

Try to get 60 minutes or some news investigation team with hidden cameras to go to the worst heat pitchers around and record everything and embarrass them......then you have got some leverage.

[ebram Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close ebram]

Fraud in the inducement-will void contract

If the sales presentation contains lies, then that is fraud in the inducement, voids the contract. You can use other antendees as witnesses to these lies. With a jury trial you have a good chance of winning, and in New Jersey treble damages. I sure the developer would settles in those cases.

[katiemack Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close katiemack]

ebram, It sounds as though you have some legal background, and have given this some thought, and while I think your idea has some inspiration behind it, unlike 4ARed, I hear the Mamas and Papas singing "dream a little dream for me".

If all it took was a lying sales person's heat to have any lawsuit even accepted into the record, wouldn't we have the courts full of used car sales lawsuits, as well as real estate marketers and the timeshare folks?

While I truly applaud the notion that we could somehow hold a developer liable for his lies, I don't think any judge would even let the lawsuit be filed....I am not a lawyer, just a common citizen who has been burned in my life time....but keep coming up with these types of ideas...you never know!

[Bill4728 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Bill4728]

If you bought a new car from the dealer and after driving it for a week could sell it for only 1/2 of what you paid, would that be fraud? No. The developer prices are much higher than resale, that fact, IMHO, doesn't make a developer sale by itself, subject to fraud.

[tonyg Goomba & Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close tonyg]

If it could be done successfully, it would have been done somewhere by now. Most of the line developer salesmen give you is not lies, more exxagerations and things they don't say.
For example: Timeshares are real estate and real estate appreciates. You can use it, trade it, rent it or sell it. They leave out that timeshares lose much of their value after you buy it and that trading depends on availability, renting depends on whether you can find someone to rent it, etc.
The only leg one has to stand on in court is what is in writing - all else can be denied.

[katiemack Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close katiemack]

I would have to agree that the written contract is what most of the law would be hanging on, however, I do believe there are lawsuits that have been won when verbal contracts are part of the package....but not in the timeshare world.

The worst part of the developer-sold TS is that the sales person's incentives are to get you to sign no matter what!

The sales folks will overstep any "sensible" questions that you offer, including the one about getting TS on the resale market (especially if it is "chain" developer like Starwood/Marriott etc).

The only recourse one truly has is to READ all the fine print (and how many do?) and ask the questions right then and there ...or go back the very next day to ask

..... rescinding with full knowledge is the usual course once someone reads the fine print...that is why the sales folks work so hard to keep you exhausted, dazzled, dazed and confused.

As for suing after the fact, again, my guess is that a judge won't let one claim that the sales guy deliberately lied to us.

In fact, in the last TS presentation we went to, the woman was NOT going to be talked off her script....she continued to cover each point no matter what....so I think they anticipate being challenged in court.

[T. R. Oglodyte Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close T. R. Oglodyte]

In the parallel thread over at TUG, Hoc (Steve Hochenstein), an experienced and sharp attorney, [rl=http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=167970&postcount=25]shows why this claim wouldn't stand[/url].

In a nutshell:

• The contract is not unconscionable because the buyer was not in a position where they were forced to sign a contract. As long as the party has a reasonable option of simply refusing to sign, the contract cannot be unconscionable.
• It isn't fraud because fraud requires reasonable reliance on affirmative lies. If there is a written contract that contradicts the lies then there cannot have been reasonable reliance on the lies.
  • If you signed the contract without readinng it, relying on the verbal statements in lieu of reading what you are signing, then your reliance on the verbal statements is unreasonable because you can't reasonable choose to ignore the written contract you are signing.
  • If you read the contract, you should have noted the contradictions. If you choose to sign anyway, ignoring the contradictions, then your reliance on the lies was not reasonable because you knew (or should have known) that the written contract you were signing contradicted the lies.

As for trying to handle the case per se, there's a saying that an attorney who handles his own case has a fool for a client. Same thing here. I sat on a jury one time on a case where a guy tried to be his own attorney. It was not a good result for him. Every time I have been on a jury, the deliberations are usually dominated by reasonable pragmatic people who hew to the legal rules and don't cut one of the parties to the proceedings some slack because they're unfamiliar with court procedure.

[T. R. Oglodyte Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close T. R. Oglodyte]

It's what's in the written contract that counts in a court of law. ..

That's not always the case.

I recovered several hundred thousand dollars in a lawsuiit one time (actually, we settled out of court just before trial started), over verbal changes in scope to a contract, even thought the contract itself said that changes to the contract could only be made in writing.

[T. R. Oglodyte Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close T. R. Oglodyte]

I'm sure that's not always the case, but I've never heard of anyone successfully sueing a developer for fraud (I'm sure there have been thousands of people that have filed lawsuits against developers).

Actually, there are quite a few cases of developers having been isuccessfully sued for fraud. Some have even been jailed.

Just go to the "Search" Link, enter "Carolinian", and you should get plenty of hits about fraudulent actions by developers.

[JWC Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close JWC]

We bought both of our timeshares from the developers and have never been sorry. Both of the resorts were brand new and we bought what we wanted at the time. Resales were not available at those resorts at the time we bought.