Does Timesharing have A Future?

[tonyg Goomba & Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close tonyg]

The high number of scumbag scam artists involved in timesharing may just someday nearly bring down the practice.

[bnoble Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close bnoble]

Some interesting number from RCI and my 3 deposits available for exchanging.

What time window are you looking at---what's the latest exchange available to you?

Edited: never mind. I see you're looking at USA only. I thought that number was way too low otherwise.

[JWC Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close JWC]

I happen to be an owner that believes timesharing is about using the week or exchanging the week. RCI renting that week for their profit without making it available for a exchange is not part of my point of view.

As I said, "What benefit does my resort receive by RCI renting my spacebank weeks?"

Walt

I believe I understand what Steve is saying and I agree with him. There is no difference to the owner nor the resort whether the unit is occupied by a renter or exchanger. The only difference is to RCI as to how much they make from renting the week or getting an exchange fee. Once your week is deposited with an exchange company, be it bulk space-banking or individual deposit, the week is no longer yours but belongs to the exchange company. What they do with it is their business. The resort still receives the M/F from the owner that deposited the week regardless of who occupies it.

Having said this, I don't think an exchange company should rent out deposited weeks as it reduces the number of weeks available for exchanging. The only exceptions would be excess inventory for last minute rentals that they don't have exchange requests for like SFX does with their sell off list.

[Carolinian Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Carolinian]

You are naive if you think it is the ''unwanted'' weeks that RCI is renting. Of course, they are manipulating their exchange mechanism to reduce the possibilitiy of exchanging to try to artificially create more ''excess'' but that is just hosing the members to make weeks that members do want to appear artificially to be excess.

Having served as an HOA president at a sold out resort that does NOT give HOA inventory to RCI and every deposit is from a member as an exchange deposit, the RCI rentals we saw, as in getting an inbound report from RCI, were ALL during seasons the resort was normally full and there were timesharers wanted to trade in who could not get space. It was NOT NOT NOT during off season. That is the same story I have heard from other resorts.

As for myself, the RCI rentals I have done have all been in desirable seasons and for less than m/f.

Then we have the info from inside RCI from people like Bootleg here and OY and Anon on TimeshareTalk. They all say that RCI diversions of inventory are largely the prime weeks.

Please don't coddle RCI with this ''unwanted weeks'' notion becasue that is NOT what they are doing. Timesharers do not need to be making those silly excuses for them.

Frustration with exchanges is certainly a big negative in the current industry, but in time this will likely become less of an issue..

Alternative exchange options are increasing steadily, either from developer and resort mgmt companies or from third party exchange systems such as SFX.. This will likely result in a bigger emphasis on both RCI and Interval creating a better value proposition for members.

More buyers are heeding the advice, "Buy where you want to travel!"...

By owner rentals are increasing...



The issue of exchange companies renting weeks to me isn't the real problem. I think they need to have an outlet for unwanted weeks, and rentals is the easiest way to resolve that issue.

The true problem is the lack of transparency and consumer education! Somehow, in this industry- it always seems to come down to that!

[Carolinian Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Carolinian]

Spot on! RCI is dumping lots of rental inventory at low prices, knocking the bottom out of the timeshare rental market. That hurts owners who want to rent and also the HOA if it should want to rent. Flooding the market always does that on prices. It something called supply and demand. Vastly increasing the supply hurts the price for everyone, and that is exactly what RCI has been doing.

Summer time is prime time for St. Augustine. We go there in March and April. There appears to be 95% to 100% of the units being used. Summer time weeks are usually 100% being used.

Addition service is $10 for the internet, if you want it. Perhaps $3.00 for 2 hours of biking. That's it. Tennis is free on clay courts. The beach is free. No revenue streams from a bar or restaurant.

RCI's rentals really has no benefit for smaller resorts like this. In fact, RCI rental program may even harm the Resort's rental program.

Walt

[taffy19 Gold Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close taffy19]

If the costs continue like they have in the past few years, I don't see private individuals buying at new timeshare resorts anymore. In that case, the name brand developers may sell their timeshare divisions to an investment group and it will become a REIT (Lodging). I don't know how it all works but they do and they are very liquid.

[Carolinian Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Carolinian]

If the costs continue like they have in the past few years, I don't see private individuals buying at new timeshare resorts anymore. In that case, the name brand developers may sell their timeshare divisions to an investment group and it will become a REIT (Lodging). I don't know how it all works but they do and they are very liquid.

I think there is an increased danger of sharks trying to crash timeshares to cash in on the property values. Several points operators have done exactly that in South Africa, the most notorious being Stuart ''The Bullfrog'' Lamont, and his most recent victim being The Seapointer, which has had quite a few Tuggers as owners. The same thing has happened in the Canary Islands at several resorts with a hook up between the developer of those resorts and a points operation to kick the owners out. The developer tried a similar scheme at Guanahani Village in the Bahamas a few years ago but was stopped in court by the timeshare owners. A follow-on developer pulled it off on the OBX at Bodie Island Beach Club. Sunterra did it at Club Brittania in the UK, and DRI looks like they may be following the same script a couple of places.

[Carolinian Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Carolinian]

The difference is between the resort having an empty unit when no exchanger has taken it and the resort having an occupied unit when RCI has rented it to someone from the general public. The latter situation DOES cost the HOA money it would not have spent in the first scenario. That does make a difference to the HOA, and is a negative to the HOA from RCI's rental practices.

But when I tracked actual RCI rentals when I was an HOA president, the whole argument over rental of weeks that would go unoccupied is academic because that is NOT what RCI is renting. All of the actual rentals we saw going through were NOT in low season when some units may have gone unoccupied, but on the contrary were in high season, when the resort was historically full, and in many of those weeks had many more exchangers trying to get in than there was inventory deposited. We even had an RCI member who was staying in a motel come by the resort one week and talk to the manager about what she might to do get an exchange as she had been trying unsuccesfully for two or three years, and the manager diplomatically neglected to tell her that there were two RCI renters there that very week. This is the sort of absolute travesty that RCI's rental programs have created in exchanging. That class action attorney was a real low life backstabbing timesharers to sell out for millions for the lawyers and ridiculous trinkets for the timesharers.

I believe I understand what Steve is saying and I agree with him. There is no difference to the owner nor the resort whether the unit is occupied by a renter or exchanger. The only difference is to RCI as to how much they make from renting the week or getting an exchange fee. Once your week is deposited with an exchange company, be it bulk space-banking or individual deposit, the week is no longer yours but belongs to the exchange company. What they do with it is their business. The resort still receives the M/F from the owner that deposited the week regardless of who occupies it.

Having said this, I don't think an exchange company should rent out deposited weeks as it reduces the number of weeks available for exchanging. The only exceptions would be excess inventory for last minute rentals that they don't have exchange requests for like SFX does with their sell off list.

[tennisWalt Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close tennisWalt]

Could Someone With A Great Trader Do To A Search?

When I did a search with my 3 weeks for the USA, I saw that about 55% of the total number of units available for the USA were Exchanges and 45% were Rentals. And a very small number of available units were Last Call.

Do these %'s hold true for a better trader?

Walt

USA Only

For Exchange Only

1061 Resorts and 56,106 units available

Extra Vacations Only

1076 Resorts and 45,866 units available

Last Call Only

43 Resorts and 247 units available

I also read this about Wyndham from Morningstar. 30% of revenue comes from its Exchange and Rentals segment.

Note that they call it Exchange and Rentals segment. So why doesn't RCI change it name to Wyndham Exchange and Rentals Company?


Wyndham also profits from timeshares when travelers
decide to swap resorts or weeks through its Exchange and
Rentals segment (30% of revenue).

What time window are you looking at---what's the latest exchange available to you?

Edited: never mind. I see you're looking at USA only. I thought that number was way too low otherwise.

[rikkis_playpen Diamond Club Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close rikkis_playpen]

Sorry- didn't realize this was just a bash RCI thread..The title confused me!

You are naive if you think it is the ''unwanted'' weeks that RCI is renting. Of course, they are manipulating their exchange mechanism to reduce the possibilitiy of exchanging to try to artificially create more ''excess'' but that is just hosing the members to make weeks that members do want to appear artificially to be excess.


As for myself, the RCI rentals I have done have all been in desirable seasons and for less than m/f.

Please don't coddle RCI with this ''unwanted weeks'' notion becasue that is NOT what they are doing. Timesharers do not need to be making those silly excuses for them.

If this discussion is only about RCI- certainly there are many things that organization does that are harmful to it's members.

I personally have no problem with an exchange system renting weeks- as long as I know upfront how their system works! If there isn't a window of opportunity where deposits are protected for exchangers, I simply won't give that exchange company my weeks (Why- when I know that I'm just getting junk weeks in return!)..

If you are unhappy with RCI's model, the simple solution is- DON'T GIVE RCI YOUR BUSINESS! If enough business disappears- they will either make changes or they won't survive!

This reminds me of all the weak minded fools who bash the PCC's, and then turn around and brag about what a fantastic deal they got from a PCC reseller! If you care enough to complain about it, then care enough to refuse to do business there!

[timeos2 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close timeos2]

If this discussion is only about RCI- certainly there are many things that organization does that are harmful to it's members.

I personally have no problem with an exchange system renting weeks- as long as I know upfront how their system works! If there isn't a window of opportunity where deposits are protected for exchangers, I simply won't give that exchange company my weeks (Why- when I know that I'm just getting junk weeks in return!)..

If you are unhappy with RCI's model, the simple solution is- DON'T GIVE RCI YOUR BUSINESS! If enough business disappears- they will either make changes or they won't survive!

This reminds me of all the weak minded fools who bash the PCC's, and then turn around and brag about what a fantastic deal they got from a PCC reseller! If you care enough to complain about it, then care enough to refuse to do business there!

We know RCI Weeks rent time they shouldn't or rates too low. Yet some still give them that time to be used AGAINST us! Why? It is voluntary and instead of touting why week for week is a good model (it isn't) and buy to trade it's far better to give positive alternatives. Buy to USE. Don't give prime weeks to RCI or anyone else that simply undercuts rental rates with free inventory. Use your time or rent it yourself. Be responsible to your own resort and your own bottom line. Urge owners to buy to use and avoid the pit falls of exchange.

RCI cannot mess with inventory they are not willingly given by resorts/owners. Cut the pipeline & make the values go up. It is in owners hands. No one is forced to trade with RCI or any other company. Buying to use eliminates the problem and makes for happy owners.

[PHILL12 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close PHILL12]

We know RCI Weeks rent time they shouldn't or rates too low. Yet some still give them that time to be used AGAINST us! Why? It is voluntary and instead of touting why week for week is a good model (it isn't) and buy to trade it's far better to give positive alternatives. Buy to USE. Don't give prime weeks to RCI or anyone else that simply undercuts rental rates with free inventory. Use your time or rent it yourself. Be responsible to your own resort and your own bottom line. Urge owners to buy to use and avoid the pit falls of exchange.

RCI cannot mess with inventory they are not willingly given by resorts/owners. Cut the pipeline & make the values go up. It is in owners hands. No one is forced to trade with RCI or any other company. Buying to use eliminates the problem and makes for happy owners.

I couldn't agree more with your statement!

I think timesharing would be much better off today if owners could not rent. Buying a timeshare was to be for your family vacations for many years and exchanging was a second option. People would buy at a area and resort they love to stay at and might go back many times with few exchanges over the years. The point was if you bought at a very nice resort you loved you could use or make great exchanges but greed set in and now many owners buy to just rent. Some owners grab best weeks keeping families from getting those weeks to use and all they are doing is trying to make a buck.

How many stories have we read from owners that can never get a summer week or holiday week in their resort because of these owners who grab them to make a profit. If renting was never a option by the owner or exchange company timesharing would still be strong.

Only way to stop these exchange companies from renting the best weeks at low price hurting all owners is to stop giving them the weeks. Like a shark in the local water, stop swimming and cut off the food chain.

PHILL12

[bjones9942 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close bjones9942]

Until recently, I was opposed to buying timeshares due to a few factors:

1. Big developer costs to pay
2. Hassle of getting the week I want
3. Hassle of getting the property I want
4. Hassle of getting the unit I want

Then I saw resale units going for a buck on eBay. No big developer costs to pay. Properties where I wanted to vacation with fixed weeks and units! Wow! So now I have myself a place to be every week 28. I know when to plan my time off and I will get to know an area and it's people over the next dozen or so years of my contract. All I have to do is shoot them an email saying I'll be there - and then go. I think there are others out there like me - and we'll be the 'new' generation of timeshare users; taking the unwanted units at bargain basement prices from those that have much more discretionary income than we have. Seems it's a win-win for everyone.

I've enjoyed the turn this thread has taken, and here are my thoughts re: exchanges ... Exchange companies like RCI and II have, and continue to, confuse me. By the time you've paid your RCI/II membership and paid your property management fees, what savings are you getting out of the deal? Then there is the hassle (from what I see) of getting the property you want at the time of year you want. I must be missing some piece of the puzzle because a lot of people exchange.


[oh, and that should be: 'Paul, find out what you can about this guy. And be sure you're home on time. Elton and his husband are coming over and I just can't take them by myself.']

[BWolf Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close BWolf]

By the time you've paid your RCI/II membership and paid your property management fees, what savings are you getting out of the deal? Then there is the hassle (from what I see) of getting the property you want at the time of year you want. I must be missing some piece of the puzzle because a lot of people exchange.

I only know II. Exchanging has always been tough. It seems to be getting tougher. My wife and I have been contemplating scaling back to one timeshare and using Getaways for the other one or two other weeks of vacation.

II has Getaways to places you cannot exchange into. Not because they are high demand. Many of the Getaway resorts aren't in the exchange system. Some appear to be more luxurious hotel rooms in major cities around the world - not strictly timeshare condo size, but that might just work for us.