Question regarding 'Point Systems'

[BocaBum99 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close BocaBum99]

I forget who but someone on TUG used to have a chart breaking down the point systems didn't they?

If it exists, I haven't seen it. It certainly would have helped me out.

[urple2 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close urple2]

This point system conversation is great. My head spins though with all the pros,cons,etc.

In regards to the fairfield system conversations earlier in this posting, one of the things I like the least is depositing into RCI. If you request a searchable, visible deposit,you get the luck of the draw, which often are resorts that don't have much trading power. If you request a generic deposit, one which you must call the VC to search, this deposit is faceless, in that it isn't really an actual unit to exchange and you have no idea in advance of how its going to trade.

I had asked them why can I not book a good resort through fairfield, that I would suspect would have good trading power, then deposit into RCI. They said there system is not designed that way. I couldn't really understand that.

So... My latest goal is to learn more from all on here and then purchase something that will compliment Fairfield, where they don't have certain locations, and the points deposits won't draw such resorts.


___

Bill

[ArtsieAng Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close ArtsieAng]

This point system conversation is great. My head spins though with all the pros,cons,etc.

In regards to the fairfield system conversations earlier in this posting, one of the things I like the least is depositing into RCI. If you request a searchable, visible deposit,you get the luck of the draw, which often are resorts that don't have much trading power. If you request a generic deposit, one which you must call the VC to search, this deposit is faceless, in that it isn't really an actual unit to exchange and you have no idea in advance of how its going to trade.

I had asked them why can I not book a good resort through fairfield, that I would suspect would have good trading power, then deposit into RCI. They said there system is not designed that way. I couldn't really understand that.

So... My latest goal is to learn more from all on here and then purchase something that will compliment Fairfield, where they don't have certain locations, and the points deposits won't draw such resorts.


___

Bill

I agree...Fairfield is not alone in this practice of keeping the good weeks in their own system for owner use. Other systems have similar methods....If you choose to deposit your week for an exchange thru II, SVO places a week into II, without your approval of the week chosen. They do not guarantee a platinum deposit for platinum owners, gold deposit for gold owners etc.

They claim there are benefits to their system because they deposit early. However, if I am a platinum owner, I want a platinum week deposited to assure myself good trading power.

For this reason, some choose to reserve a week from SVO, and then deposit into SFX, or other exchange companies.

[taffy19 Gold Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close taffy19]

Boca, get in touch with the Marriott and explain what your vision is. You never know as they may listen. I remember filling out a questionnaire once and it was feeling us out if we wanted to convert to a point based system. I have mentioned this on TUG but nobody responded if they got the same questionnaire too. This is quite a while ago.

You know what my answer would have been because we prefer fixed weeks and fixed units, the old fashioned way. This is just our preference so I am not saying that this is the better system. I know that it is not practical today but it guarantees you the best view you can afford at a season you like to go. Timesharing is not perfect because you don't own the condo or have control but it is a great way to vacation with a family rather than staying in two or three hotel rooms and cheaper too in this case. Savvy people here take advantage of the loopholes but they will go away when more people start investigating and doing their own research too.

I like reading your thoughts and writing a book would be great. I gave you some suggestions privately the other day on where to get the material and how to market it too. It has helped a lot of people but there are other sources too. I have posted that on TUG some time ago when this subject came up over there. A friend of ours did this and is very successful now. It can be done in the USA.

You could change the timeshare industry with a good book but I would go to the developers first and give them your views. JMHO.

[short Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close short]

Check with Fern

I forget who but someone on TUG used to have a chart breaking down the point systems didn't they?

Check with Fern. She either did one in the advise area or might know who did. It might also be a sticky but it would have been a few years out of date.

Short

[short Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close short]

Missing items.

Short,

There are a couple of things missing from HGVC. First, it needs to affiliate with II. That's a huge miss.

But HGVC is the big fish in the big pond. They are also are affiliated with SFX for better trades than RCI can provide. I agree II would be a plus but not likely to happen.

Second, I don't think it has the rental program I am envisioning. But, I don't recall the details of the HGVC rental program.

I don't know if they have one at all. I have not had reason to check if the rent member weeks at all.

Third, they don't have direct exchange opportunities with the other hotel brands independent of the exchange companies.

This is not going to happen in HGVC or Marriott. What timeshare developer would willingly send there customers to other Hotel based timeshare resorts where they might attend a timeshare presentation and find out about other systems. Marriott wants a tight little system that keeps there Owners buying more Marriott weeks, renting Marriott hotels, using Marriott points.

Fourth, they charge an internal reservation fee for booking HGVC which should be eliminated.

Marriott will have a reservation fee be sure of that. Someone has to pay for the agents answering phones and making reservations. The reservation are the equivelent of a exchange fee and that will not go away. You also need to control the few members who abuse the system by calling/canceling, calling/canceling etc. If the system can be abused someone will do it.

There may be more, but I've forgotten a lot of details. I need to create some comparison tables for all the systems. This is the type of stuff I would put in the book, "How to choose the right timesharing point system for you"

I will check now to see if I can find the TUG table.

Short

[BocaBum99 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close BocaBum99]

Short,

Hyatt members exchange for Marriotts all the time. They just do it through II. Why go through a third party exchange when you can set up a preferential relationship directly with other resort group operators?

Marriott does have a rental program. And, from what I hear, it's not that bad. I am talking about an improvement in it.

Fairfield, WorldMark and Bluegreen do not charge directly for reservations. It is built into the fabric of those systems. It is very annoying having to pay reservation or exchange fees for internal reservations. Once you get it for free, you never want to go back. There is no reason why other hotel branded systems can't do it as well. The reservation system does need to be paid for, but each resort has a reservation system in place today anyway which is being funded by the resorts itself. Don't believe it. Call up any Marriott Vacation Club resort and give them your confirmation number. They will look you up in their reservation system which also handles daily rentals.

The general principle I am recommending is making it simple to book reservations within the system. When you own at one, it feels like you own at all of the resorts. You don't need to pay a fee to reserve your week at your home resort. Why should you have to pay for a reservation in the collection of home resorts? One system and a call center may be more cost effective than the current free systems they offer today with multiple phone numbers.

The call center needs to be funded in addition to the reservation system. But, a great online reservation system like WorldMark has today can greatly reduce the need for operators. I say the call center gets funded by profits from the rental program. There are plenty of ways to fund this capability. A common one is through annual dues.

In any event, these are just ideas.

[ArtsieAng Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close ArtsieAng]

Short,

Marriott does have a rental program. And, from what I hear, it's not that bad. I am talking about an improvement in it.

Marriott charges you a 35% commission & a daily house cleaning fee, for renting your timeshare. However, they are able to get a considerable amount more for the rental then you would be able to get. So, in all likelihood, the difference in what you would make renting on your own could be insignificant.

Also, when Marriott rents for you, they are taking on all the responsibilities for damage, etc. And, the ease in simply calling and listing your week for rent with them, and having them find the renter is worth something. Not having to deal with finding a renter, placing adds, collecting money, etc., is a big plus to some.

If you rent your week thru Marriott, you can choose to cancel, and take your week back for use, trade, or private rental up to the point that Marriott rents your week.

All considered, I don't think it's a bad program at all.

BB,

"The rentals are only for owners who want to rent. Across the whole market, 12.3% of timeshare intervals are rented. So that part of the program is for them. I would probably create a program like Bluegreens where you pay your maintenance fee with points leaving the balance for partial week stays. And, those units will be used to put into the rental pool. So, in essence, you have no hassle rentals that directly reduces or pays your MFs. That will help owners who tend to let their weeks expire. If there are excess profits from the rental program, they go back to reduce operational costs of the club."

Could you elaborate on what you mean by " The rentals are only for owners who want to rent."

Thanks.....

[BocaBum99 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close BocaBum99]

Could you elaborate on what you mean by " The rentals are only for owners who want to rent."

Thanks.....

I guess that was a pretty stupid thing to say. LOL.

What I meant was that 12.3% of timesharing units across the entire industry are rented. So, an enhanced rental program is meant to serve that need so that owners don't need to do it themselves.

I agree that Marriott can get higher rental rates than individual owners. That is what I want to package up for owners. I want to take even more risk out of the program for owners than exists today. In fact, I want to be able to offer immediate payment of maintenance fees the moment the owner commits the week to the rental program. There are two benefits to this approach. First, it's a guaranteed rental. Second, it's tax free. You don't need to declare income if you use your timeshare interval to pay for maintenance fees. And, depending on how successful the rental program is for the year, the owner will get additional use time because there will be a profit above maintenance fees. That profit will manifest itself in a points equivalent that can be used for partial week stays at Marriott Vacation Club resorts. If you own several timeshares, it's conceivable that you can have all of your maintenance fees paid in this way and still have a week or two left for vacationing. Wouldn't that be awesome?

This is exactly what exists in the Bluegreen preferred member program today. It's one of the coolest things I've ever seen created in a timeshare program. NO MORE MAINTENANCE FEES.

[ArtsieAng Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close ArtsieAng]

I guess that was a pretty stupid thing to say. LOL.

What I meant was that 12.3% of timesharing units across the entire industry are rented. So, an enhanced rental program is meant to serve that need so that owners don't need to do it themselves.

I agree that Marriott can get higher rental rates than individual owners. That is what I want to package up for owners. I want to take even more risk out of the program for owners than exists today. In fact, I want to be able to offer immediate payment of maintenance fees the moment the owner commits the week to the rental program. There are two benefits to this approach. First, it's a guaranteed rental. Second, it's tax free. You don't need to declare income if you use your timeshare interval to pay for maintenance fees. And, depending on how successful the rental program is for the year, the owner will get additional use time because there will be a profit above maintenance fees. That profit will manifest itself in a points equivalent that can be used for partial week stays at Marriott Vacation Club resorts. If you own several timeshares, it's conceivable that you can have all of your maintenance fees paid in this way and still have a week or two left for vacationing. Wouldn't that be awesome?

This is exactly what exists in the Bluegreen preferred member program today. It's one of the coolest things I've ever seen created in a timeshare program. NO MORE MAINTENANCE FEES.

I do like the idea of a "guaranteed" rental. Knowing I could simply call and be guaranteed to have my week rented would be nice.

Hypothetically, what would happen if you were unable to rent the weeks you guaranteed payment for??? How would this effect the company over time, if you were unable to actually rent the weeks???


I understand why Bluegreen applies the rental income toward your maintenance fee.....It's a good deal for everyone involved....You get your week rented, and they get their maintenance fees paid. Everyone is happy.

[BocaBum99 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close BocaBum99]

Hypothetically, what would happen if you were unable to rent the weeks you guaranteed payment for??? How would this effect the company over time, if you were unable to actually rent the weeks???

That's the beauty of a guarantee program. When Bluegreen accepts payment for your maintenance fees, Bluegreen takes on the risk of the rentals going empty. You still got paid.

They do this because they have a good idea of what will rent and for how much and they expect a certain vacancy rate. They are getting a fine return on the program.

In Bluegreen, you can net more if you rent yourself. But then, you have the hassles of being in the rental business like merchant accounts, collections, rental agreements, security deposits, liability and taxes.

I would expect Marriott's to do a lot better because Marriott has an active rental business for its hotels and a recognized brand. They will capture a much larger premium than an off brand like Bluegreen.

[short Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close short]

Marriott perfect point program is rental

Speaking of Marriott rentals, while I was at the Marriott Newport Beach attending a timeshare presentation in May, it came to me that the renting nights at the Marriott website at there Vacation Club locations is the perfect points program.

You can do it easily online. You can pick and chose which size unit, how many nights, what checkin day. You can book 2 or 3 units at the same time for family gatherings. No reservation fee. You can cancel up to 2 nights before occupancy.

Availability is a concern but this is also true of buying a week and trying to reserve in the summer.

By my calculations buying and renting from Marriott are not that far apart in cost. Since I would be willing to pay some premium for flexablilty renting from Marriott wins the points comparison.

Short

[ArtsieAng Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close ArtsieAng]

Speaking of Marriott rentals, while I was at the Marriott Newport Beach attending a timeshare presentation in May, it came to me that the renting nights at the Marriott website at there Vacation Club locations is the perfect points program.

You can do it easily online. You can pick and chose which size unit, how many nights, what checkin day. You can book 2 or 3 units at the same time for family gatherings. No reservation fee. You can cancel up to 2 nights before occupancy.

Availability is a concern but this is also true of buying a week and trying to reserve in the summer.

By my calculations buying and renting from Marriott are not that far apart in cost. Since I would be willing to pay some premium for flexibility renting from Marriott wins the points comparison.

Short

Short,

The points you mention are true. These days, you do have to take into consideration the cost factor of owning vs renting. In many cases, it does make more sense to rent.....You don't have to lay out large amounts of money. You don't need to pay maintenance fees, and you don't have to deal with exchanges.

However, there still are some benefits to owning. You are still much more likely to get the premium seasons over rentals. Also, if you do rent during peak season, you will be paying much more than the maintenance fee. If you purchased resale at a good price, hopefully, when the time comes to sell, you will get your investment back.

You also have the option to rent your premium week for more than your maintenance fee. Or, you can deposit it with an exchange company, and in all likelihood, get an AC. So, you now have two vacations for little more than the price of one.

I think at this point in time, I would only be interested in owning a lock-off unit. This way, I would be able to rent out the lock-off portion to pay my maintenance bill. Deposit the other section, and get an AC. I would then get two vacations, and my maintenance fee paid.