Question regarding 'Point Systems'

[BocaBum99 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close BocaBum99]

Boca, I am under the impression that Marriott is going to be handling their own reservation system soon as well as the internal exchanges too. If you want to make exchanges outside the sytem, you will have to belong to II or another exchange company. They may keep the best weeks in the system but I haven't heard this rumor.

Marriott has rented our timeshare week out for us and kept 35% of the rent. At some resorts it is 50% but the week may not rent and you do not get it back for personal use once you have signed a rental contract. That's why we rented it ourselves from then on.

Yeah, Bluegreen rents weeks for their owners as well and I would say that that program is a bust. The type of rental program I am envisioning is a pooling of rental weeks. So in essence, let's say that 1000 people decide they want to particpate in the rental pool for 2007. They declare that prior to Nov 1, 2007, then Marriott would try to rent all of those weeks to the highest bidders in all types of venues that only Marriott has access to. Here's what different, the owners get a cut of the entire rentals based on what they deposit. So, let's say that Marriott only rents 85% of the units. That 15% that isn't rented doesn't get assigned to specific owners. It gets distributed evenly across all owners. So, you dont need to worry that you week only rented the weekend. This gives flexilbility to Marriott to be aggressive in renting rather than focusing on being fair in assigning reservation priority. In such a system, owners would tend to get more because some weeks will rent for way more than an owner could rent it themselves. And, vacancies are distributed over everyone in the program. And, some bonus time inventory will be rented here to contribute additional occupancy.

Bluegreen has this type of program too. In addition to Bluegreen offering to rent your specific week, they will offer you $.05/point if you are a preferred owner toward your maintenance fees. They take those points and rent them. Obviously, Bluegreen has decided that it is easy for them to rent those points on average for more than $.05/point or they wouldn't do it. There is no reason why Marriott couldn't do it as well. In fact, they could do a lot better. This approach is far superior to many of the resort rental programs that exist today.

[ArtsieAng Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close ArtsieAng]

.... and certainly after reading this. You always get offered less for your money eventually.

Marriott points have devaluated too over the years because it takes more points today to take that trip around the world (2 airline tickets, 7 day stay at their highest category hotel plus a rental car). Now you end up without a car rental in a lower category hotel for the same amount of points they offered us when we joined the Marriott system.

I read every post that some of these people write because they know the system inside out.

These points are not the same points that a point-based system is based on as far as I can see. They are extra features of a week-based system to make it more attractive.

Emmy,

I read thru the link you provided. I recently read a similar thread regarding Marriott points....it appears that an adjustment might be taking place across the board. I am aware that these points are hotel points, not timeshare points. However, with both these systems, these points were a huge benefit to owning a timeshare.

I don't think many people will be trading their timeshares for points with this kind of devaluation taking place. I am not sure how this will effect the market.Will rentals become more popular?

I'm wondering if there is going to be a point adjustment similar to WorldMark with other timeshare companies in the near future????

[ArtsieAng Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close ArtsieAng]

Yeah, Bluegreen rents weeks for their owners as well and I would say that that program is a bust. The type of rental program I am envisioning is a pooling of rental weeks. So in essence, let's say that 1000 people decide they want to particpate in the rental pool for 2007. They declare that prior to Nov 1, 2007, then Marriott would try to rent all of those weeks to the highest bidders in all types of venues that only Marriott has access to. Here's what different, the owners get a cut of the entire rentals based on what they deposit. So, let's say that Marriott only rents 85% of the units. That 15% that isn't rented doesn't get assigned to specific owners. It gets distributed evenly across all owners. So, you dont need to worry that you week only rented the weekend. This gives flexilbility to Marriott to be aggressive in renting rather than focusing on being fair in assigning reservation priority. In such a system, owners would tend to get more because some weeks will rent for way more than an owner could rent it themselves. And, vacancies are distributed over everyone in the program. And, some bonus time inventory will be rented here to contribute additional occupancy.

Bluegreen has this type of program too. In addition to Bluegreen offering to rent your specific week, they will offer you $.05/point if you are a preferred owner toward your maintenance fees. They take those points and rent them. Obviously, Bluegreen has decided that it is easy for them to rent those points on average for more than $.05/point or they wouldn't do it. There is no reason why Marriott couldn't do it as well. In fact, they could do a lot better. This approach is far superior to many of the resort rental programs that exist today.

BB,

With the current devaluation of points that's being predicted, I think we are going to see a big increase in timeshares hitting the rental market.

It will no longer make financial sense to trade back your week for hotel points.

I think there will be more interest in having good rental options.....We will have to wait and see what effect this devaluation is going to play in the timeshare market.

[BocaBum99 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close BocaBum99]

BB,

With the current devaluation of points that's being predicted, I think we are going to see a big increase in timeshares hitting the rental market.

It will no longer make financial sense to trade back your week for hotel points.

I think there will be more interest in having good rental options.....We will have to wait and see what effect this devaluation is going to play in the timeshare market.

I agree. Timesharing points act and behave just like any currency that is used as an exchange medium for goods and services. They can easily be devalued.

I believe that there is a huge opportunity for a really smart and aggressive timesharing company to come up with a new points based timesharing product that does away with the resort developer sales model and sells based on an actual return on investment or discounted cash flow model.

It would have to be sold via word of mouth and over the internet to reduce cost of sales. The return will either be cash based return or equivalent vacation cost replacement return.

If it achieved sufficient size and notariety, it could turn the timesharing industry upside down. I believe such a product is required in order for timesharing to reach critical mass as a consumer product (i.e. 20% penetration into all homes).

If anyone wants to start such a venture, let me know. I have capital and a hard work ethic, will travel. It would help if you had a rich uncle like Bill Gates. LOL.

[ArtsieAng Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close ArtsieAng]

I agree. Timesharing points act and behave just like any currency that is used as an exchange medium for goods and services. They can easily be devalued.

I believe that there is a huge opportunity for a really smart and aggressive timesharing company to come up with a new points based timesharing product that does away with the resort developer sales model and sells based on an actual return on investment or discounted cash flow model.

It would have to be sold via word of mouth and over the internet to reduce cost of sales. The return will either be cash based return or equivalent vacation cost replacement return.

If it achieved sufficient size and notariety, it could turn the timesharing industry upside down. I believe such a product is required in order for timesharing to reach critical mass as a consumer product (i.e. 20% penetration into all homes).

If anyone wants to start such a venture, let me know. I have capital and a hard work ethic, will travel. It would help if you had a rich uncle like Bill Gates. LOL.

I tend to agree with you that there is opportunity out there for a new & better system....Everyone seems to be in agreement that there is presently not one company offering the 'perfect' system.

The problem is....who could ever really compete with the the Marriott's and the Hilton's, etc., of the world. I think you would need a Bill Gates, to be successful......

It's a strange period in the timeshare industry. It appears that timeshares are experiencing a boom. All the major players have plans to build more resorts, and the prices are quickly rising, while the incentives are being down graded.

Something is up, after all, these companies do tremendous research before investing in new resorts. They obviously feel the market is there, or they wouldn't be expanding.

The question is...how is this all going to play out, and what effect will this have on the timeshare market...both retail, and resale?

As far as "point systems" are concerned. I have a feeling they are going to be the most affected.....It's one thing to build new timeshares charging a higher price. That doesn't automatically prevent owners of older timeshares from trading into these newer resorts in the "week system."

As the industry grows, and newer timeshares are built, the "point system" may experience if first major downfall. If the "point systems" start to raise the required number of points in order to trade into the newer resorts, they are going to have many unhappy campers.

I am not saying that this will happen. As you mentioned, the better way would be to keep the number of points required to trade into the new resorts the same, and raise the price of the purchase.

It will be interesting to see which way they choose to go.

[BocaBum99 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close BocaBum99]

Angela,

The key requirement for the success of a currency is trust in the central bank. So, it is most likely that a trusted brand will dominate. A name like Marriott, Hyatt or Starwood is more trusted than RCI or Cendant or Bluegreen or WorldMark.

So, it is likely to be a brand that you already know and trust. Marriott is my choice as the potential big winner. And, since they don't have a points offering, they can create the next generation and apply it to an existing base of customers.

I feel pretty comfortable that a point system can be created in a way that works. And, the attributes of such a point system should be more attractive than it's weeks counterpart simply because it is more flexible and can be fined tuned to better meet supply and demand whether or not it does today.

Timesharing is booming for many reasons. Part of it is the real estate boom of the past 5 years. That it is cooling off could hurt the timesharing market for a while. Part of it is the strong global economy and the fact that hotel occupancy rates have been high and hotel rental rates have been increasing at double digit rates of increase. Part of it is that the hotel brands all have timesharing alternatives and they are getting more people interested in timesharing than ever before.

I do feel pretty confident that timesharing will continue to boom after some short pauses mostly because I strongly believe that average, middle class people around the world want to vacation and travel the world and timesharing can be the best and most cost effective way to do it at a price point reachable by most consumers.

The biggest hurdle for the industry is moving beyond the resort developer sales model. Today, it's a big sham and must prey on uneducated consumers to make sales. If the industry cannot find a superior model for selling timeshares at roughly their resale market value, it will never be a mass market product. The only way that can happen is through mass diffusion of information and a strong motivation by consumers to buy the product. That's why I believe that the investor class needs to emerge. Because if people other than developers don't see a way to make money in timesharing, then they won't be incented to educate the masses and the resort developer will continue to sell like they do today. Those of us who post on timesharing websites are such a small portion of the world that our efforts go mostly unheard and the only other voice most consumers hear are those of the OPCs (off premises contact) that offer those free gifts to unsuspecting travelers to attend a no obligation 90-minute sales presentation and their timeshare sales rep. Even when they own a timeshare, 1.5M people get RCI's endless vacations vs. 25,000 for Timesharing today and 10,000-15,000 or so on TUG/TS4Ms and other timesharing sites.

The best thing that could ever happen to timesharing is if Bill Gates and Warren Buffet saw a way to make money in it and started moving in that direction by acquiring companies and technologies to serve it. Unfortunately, I don't see it happening in the near future.

[short Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close short]

I don't think so.

Ooh, that's a good one. I agree that's a showstopper. Can you at least turn those extra staroptions into starpoints?

Boca,

I don't think so. I think you have to trade in your entire week for points or nothing. Your decision to trade your week in for hotel points is to be made before the beginning of the use year?

Someone please correct me if I am wrong. I am repeating this from memory of my discussion at a timeshare presentation in Phx in November of 05.

Short

[short Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close short]

Perfect Marriott exchange system sounds like HGVC

Boca,

Your perfect Marriott internal exchange system sounds a lot like HGVC.

You should add the ability to use your points directly for hotel stays during the use year.

Short

[ArtsieAng Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close ArtsieAng]

Boca,

I don't think so. I think you have to trade in your entire week for points or nothing. Your decision to trade your week in for hotel points is to be made before the beginning of the use year?

Someone please correct me if I am wrong. I am repeating this from memory of my discussion at a timeshare presentation in Phx in November of 05.

Short

This is not the flexibility I thought the system was offering. I still like their system....just not as much.....

As I previously mentioned. If you are fairly new to the industry, and go about trying to fully understand the pro's and con's of each system, it can be difficult.

I have learned much in the past couple of months, but realize, I still have much more to learn before making another purchase.

[ArtsieAng Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close ArtsieAng]

Angela,


So, it is likely to be a brand that you already know and trust. Marriott is my choice as the potential big winner. And, since they don't have a points offering, they can create the next generation and apply it to an existing base of customers.

I feel pretty comfortable that a point system can be created in a way that works. And, the attributes of such a point system should be more attractive than it's weeks counterpart simply because it is more flexible and can be fined tuned to better meet supply and demand whether or not it does today.

BB,

Let's say that Marriott does indeed introduce "point options" into their system....Might this have a huge impact on the timeshare industry as a whole.

They have been very successful to date without such a system. When and if this system is implemented, will the industry follow their lead, and possibly alter their current systems in order to be competitive.

I realize you could look at it as Marriott being the one making the change in order to be competitive with the existing competition. However, I have a feeling it might actually work the other way around.

It is very possible that they will set the a new standard for the industry.

[BocaBum99 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close BocaBum99]

Boca,

Your perfect Marriott internal exchange system sounds a lot like HGVC.

You should add the ability to use your points directly for hotel stays during the use year.

Short

Short,

There are a couple of things missing from HGVC. First, it needs to affiliate with II. That's a huge miss.

Second, I don't think it has the rental program I am envisioning. But, I don't recall the details of the HGVC rental program.

Third, they don't have direct exchange opportunities with the other hotel brands independent of the exchange companies.

Fourth, they charge an internal reservation fee for booking HGVC which should be eliminated.

There may be more, but I've forgotten a lot of details. I need to create some comparison tables for all the systems. This is the type of stuff I would put in the book, "How to choose the right timesharing point system for you"

[ArtsieAng Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close ArtsieAng]

Short,


There may be more, but I've forgotten a lot of details. I need to create some comparison tables for all the systems. This is the type of stuff I would put in the book, "How to choose the right timesharing point system for you"

That would be a great thing to do.....

I am thinking that a chart would be very helpful.

I can in-vision a "point system" comparison chart. The type I have seen for appliances, or cars on sites. The various options are listed, and then there are checks put into each box if the particular item has the option.

I know you would need to go into more detail, but it would be nice to be able to look at a chart and get an idea of what each timeshare was offering.

[BocaBum99 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close BocaBum99]

That would be a great thing to do.....

I am thinking that a chart would be very helpful.

I can in-vision a "point system" comparison chart. The type I have seen for appliances, or cars on sites. The various options are listed, and then there are checks put into each box if the particular item has the option.

I know you would need to go into more detail, but it would be nice to be able to look at a chart and get an idea of what each timeshare was offering.

Okay, that sounds like a great project. I'll create a table, get feedback on it and that'll be a good forcing function to lay out what needs to be discussed in such a project.

[ArtsieAng Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close ArtsieAng]

Okay, that sounds like a great project. I'll create a table, get feedback on it and that'll be a good forcing function to lay out what needs to be discussed in such a project.

Thank you.....I think everyone will really appreciate your efforts...... If I can help you out in any way, I would be glad to do so.


Is there a forum for 'point systems' on TS4Ms??? I haven't seen it, and that might be a great place to put your chart into a sticky. Also, with so many 'point systems' out there, and more to follow, wouldn't it be a good idea to have a 'point system' forum.

Maybe there already is one...and I just haven't seen it.....

[4ARedOctober Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close 4ARedOctober]

I forget who but someone on TUG used to have a chart breaking down the point systems didn't they?

Okay, that sounds like a great project. I'll create a table, get feedback on it and that'll be a good forcing function to lay out what needs to be discussed in such a project.