Timesharing . . . Has It's Run It's Course?

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

Everything seems to be indicating that it is more than just a downturn in the economy.

Prolific rentals available via the Internet

Hordes of owners paying significant $$$ to unload their weeks

"Retail" timeshare marketers with billboards advertising weeks at bargain basement prices

Exchange companies jacking their members around and renting deposits to the public

Scam after scam after scam

Could it be that the smoke and mirrors, false promises and arrogant disregard of the industry have finally caught up with it?

Could it be that the day of $25000 plus $1000 per year for the right to stay in an apartment one week a year is over?

[BocaBum99 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close BocaBum99]

No, timesharing has not yet run its course. It will change, yes, perhaps dramatically. It is not done. There are too much embedded ownership and infrastructure in place. It will take a long time for it to unwind. By that time, there will be a new concept for packaging, selling and marketing timeshares.

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

An anticipated response from a participant in the industry.

[tonyg Goomba & Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close tonyg]

Hard to say, but since there are many here and elsewhere who enjoy timesharing and a seemingly endless horde of gullible suckers with money to spend still to still be found, I suspect it will survive the current bad times. Some resorts,management and developers will probably not survive---let's hope it's the Westgate types and not the more ethical ones.

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

Hard to say, but since there are many here and elsewhere who enjoy timesharing and a seemingly endless horde of gullible suckers with money to spend still to still be found, I suspect it will survive the current bad times. Some resorts,management and developers will probably not survive---let's hope it's the Westgate types and not the more ethical ones.

Yeah, what was I thinking?

After all, there's that young guy at the golf course who makes $60,000 a month selling timeshares here in Branson.

So, things must still be in the great shape.

[timeos2 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close timeos2]

Remember too that the current model for the majority of the developers - especially those that at least on the surface are doing well - is no longer to BUILD timeshare resorts (of which there are too many in most places, but a lack in so many urban areas due to high cost/limited seasons) but to recycle use into "club" systems, usually based on points. As this model requires nothing but ownership / control of time at existing resorts suddenly giving them up to "hundreds of locations" even if they own two intervals and a cheap reservation program for which they charge thousands up front. Then they press owners to continuously buy more. THIS model has very low overhead and can be sustained indefinitely. Until people realize they can rent the same thing for far less than the overhead of these systems - and given the decades of success of bamboozling uninformed owners in the old model which was much easier to understand - that isn't going to change in our lifetimes. They may have accidentally stumbled and been economically forced into a near perfect system for generating massive income for very little investment. Look out for your wallet!

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

Maybe today's model should be to follow the timeshare industry, and build resorts to rent to the public, like timeshare resorts do. Oh wait, that's what regular resorts do. Maybe if nothing but regular resorts get built for awhile, the idea of timeshares will get popular again . . . you know, reminiscing like.

Maybe if people rent, and really like a place, the idea of being able to lock in that place and that week might catch on . . . again.

Seems like the line is getting blurred.

[taffy19 Gold Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close taffy19]

Remember too that the current model for the majority of the developers - especially those that at least on the surface are doing well - is no longer to BUILD timeshare resorts (of which there are too many in most places, but a lack in so many urban areas due to high cost/limited seasons) but to recycle use into "club" systems, usually based on points. As this model requires nothing but ownership / control of time at existing resorts suddenly giving them up to "hundreds of locations" even if they own two intervals and a cheap reservation program for which they charge thousands up front. Then they press owners to continuously buy more. THIS model has very low overhead and can be sustained indefinitely. Until people realize they can rent the same thing for far less than the overhead of these systems - and given the decades of success of bamboozling uninformed owners in the old model which was much easier to understand - that isn't going to change in our lifetimes. They may have accidentally stumbled and been economically forced into a near perfect system for generating massive income for very little investment. Look out for your wallet!

Look out for your wallet indeed and certainly by the bigger developers. I can think of a few.

It is not only timeshare developers but the exchange companies come out too with more expensive trading plans so that you have advanced booking or free trading up to a larger unit or something like that.

One good thing is that people can research everything online while they are on vacation so if they don't do that, then they have nobody to blame but themselves.

Can you back out of an exchange upgrade? I have no idea because I am not interested but it would be good to know for people who are interested.

[Carolinian Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Carolinian]

That model was invented in South Africa by a former loan shark (or ''tallyman'' as they are called there) named Andrew Davies and it has still not taken over South Africa yet. Of course, it is now being spread to other parts of the world as well and is a thread to watch out for.

Remember too that the current model for the majority of the developers - especially those that at least on the surface are doing well - is no longer to BUILD timeshare resorts (of which there are too many in most places, but a lack in so many urban areas due to high cost/limited seasons) but to recycle use into "club" systems, usually based on points. As this model requires nothing but ownership / control of time at existing resorts suddenly giving them up to "hundreds of locations" even if they own two intervals and a cheap reservation program for which they charge thousands up front. Then they press owners to continuously buy more. THIS model has very low overhead and can be sustained indefinitely. Until people realize they can rent the same thing for far less than the overhead of these systems - and given the decades of success of bamboozling uninformed owners in the old model which was much easier to understand - that isn't going to change in our lifetimes. They may have accidentally stumbled and been economically forced into a near perfect system for generating massive income for very little investment. Look out for your wallet!

[longtimer Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close longtimer]

It is not only timeshare developers but the exchange companies come out too with more expensive trading plans so that you have advanced booking or free trading up to a larger unit or something like that.

II has jumped on this bandwagon with the Platinum membership. Now you have to pay even more to get a decent chance at an exchange. TS owners could give II and RCI the boot by switching to another exchange company or directly trading/renting with an owner in another system.

[dougp26364 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close dougp26364]

For some, yes it's over. For others who adapt, it's still a viable way to travel.

It's the constant adaptation and keeping ahead of the curve that grows old. There always seems to be another catch where someone is asking for more money, either to maintain or upgrade. Over time, that gets old and the dream ends.

[TomandRobin Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close TomandRobin]

No, but it has drastically changed over the past few years. Going forward, there are going to be even more changes. Timeshares boomed in proportion with the real estate bubble, and is still falling with it.

Going forward, I think we'll see more of the package timeshares. Selling not only the property, but more focus on the system and perks of ownership, especially multi-week owners.

[bnoble Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close bnoble]

"No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public."
--H. L. Mencken

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

What do you think the response would be just about anywhere else but on a timeshare forum?

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

News

Cape Cod Times – February 14, 2010

Budget Travel: Worldwide timeshare crisis under way during recessionWhen you buy a timeshare (a travel device guaranteeing a week or more at a resort hotel), you pay not simply a purchase price but a yearly maintenance fee needed to keep the property up and running

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USA Today – January 18, 2010

Many fed-up time share owners are stuck trying to sellFor Stacey Udell, a Craigslist ad enticing her to own a piece of property in the Bahamas for $3,000 was too good to pass up…

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Miami Herald- March 24, 2010

Timeshare resales run into troubleIt’s hardly paradise for people selling their timeshares as complaints about resale companies are increasing.

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My Florida Legal – March 11, 2010

Attorney General Focuses Consumer Protection Initiative on Timeshare Resale IndustryTALLAHASSEE, FL – In continuing recognition of National Consumer Protection Week, Attorney General Bill McCollum today announced he is tackling growing abuses in the timeshare resale industry.

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Wall Street Journal (blog) – Kris Hudson – Feb 4, 2010

Starwood Takes Its Lumps in Time-SharesThe time-share industry has been shrinking since the latest recession began. But only now are we seeing the full extent of the pullback among …

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Catskill Daily Mail – Colin DeVries – Feb 3, 2010

Friar Tuck timeshare owners left in suspenseALBANY — Friar Tuck Inn timeshare holders are waiting with bated breath on the future of their costly investments at the embattled Catskill …

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NTV – Feb 2, 2010

Consumer Loses Thousands to Florida Listing CompanySome timeshare owners are interested in selling their timeshares so they can recoup their investment and stop paying maintenance fees. …

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NorthJersey.com – Jan 27, 2010

Timeshare industry hit hard by recessionThe recession has been particularly tough on the timeshare business. Sales are down; defaults are up. Resort development has come to a standstill, …

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Courthouse News Service- December 3, 2009

Timeshare Was a Snow Job, Man SaysHe demands $47596.83 in damages for fraud, to cover the cost and fees of the timeshare. Alternatively, he wants the contract to be rescinded…

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Timeshares Daily- November 20, 2009

Apex settles timeshare caseA Nevada-based company, accused of swindling Vermont timeshare owners, has agreed to reimburse the victims in a settlement announcement…

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Puget Sound Business Journal- November 25, 2009

Better Business Bureau targets International Timeshare ConsolidatorsThe Better Business Bureau serving Washington state said it’s received “multiple complaints” about a Seattle company called International Timeshare…

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PALM BEACH POST- October 30, 2009

CONSUMER ALERT: Don’t believe timeshare sellers’ promisesBy SUSAN SALISBURY Timeshare sales are down, but the number of fraud cases in the murky world of timeshare marketers is growing..

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ACTION 9- October 14, 2009

Timeshare Confusion Costs Woman Money”SALISBURY, NC — Shelby Josey owns a vacation timeshare condo at the Myrtle Beach Wyndham Resort. In August, she attended a meeting at Wyndham to buy more …

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BNET- October 10, 2009

Marriott’s $466M Timeshare Loss”Our timeshare business looks forward to a stronger economy,” he said. “I took issue with the whole timeshare debacle,” said Bryan Maher, managing director …

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Property Wire- October 1, 2009

Timeshare property sales dive in US as they are no longer seen as a good buyProperty timeshare purchases in the US have fallen the most this year since the industry first became popular in the 1970s as buyers desert the sector. …

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CoStar Group- September 30, 2009

Timeshares’ Time Running Out at MarriottCHICAGO — Marriott International Inc. lost $466 million in its third quarter on hefty impairment charges from its timeshare business, which has declined …

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Bloomberg- September 29, 2009

Vacation Timeshares Drop at Record Pace as Americans Cut BackUS vacation timeshare sales may fall the most this year since the industry gained popularity in the 1970s as consumers forego spending to …

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Orlando Sentinel- August 6, 2009

Disney takes on more risk to preserve time-share bank dealWith a growing number of time-share buyers defaulting on their loans, the Walt Disney Co. recently assumed more than $200 million in additional liability to…

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Jackson Hole Daily- August 3, 2009

No bids for timeshares at foreclosure auctionOwners of the timeshares owed between $2,955 and $5,171 for the individual portions. Since January, no individual has submitted any bids on foreclosed…

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KSAT.com- July 30, 2009

Free Vacation Turns CostlyShe said the woman represented herself as being from Summer Bay Resorts and said she was calling to offer Gonzalez a free vacation…

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NASDAQ- July 30, 2009

Wyndham 2Q Profit Falls 28% As Sales, Yields Tumble(WYN) second-quarter earnings fell 28% as a leisure and business travel slump continued to take a toll on the company’s hotel and timeshare businesses…

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Las Vegas Review – Journal- July 21, 2009

Lost Credit Line Said to Spur Company’s ClosureConsolidated Resorts, a Las Vegas time-share company that filed for bankruptcy earlier this month, was forced to close when a key …

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wftv.com- July 20, 2009

Man Says Resort Fined Him $4000 Over His ShirtA Central Florida timeshare owner says he’s been fined $4000 over a t-shirt. Ray Nix was upset with an extra charge to move his vacation from Westgate…

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Olive Press- July 15, 2009

Timeshare Conman ConvictedCOSTA del Sol-based timeshare conman Garry Leigh has been convicted of 11 counts of fraud. The seasoned fraudster, who has a string of shady companies along…

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Coco Zickos- July 15, 2009

Hanalei Resort Speaks Out HANALEI — In the management battle brewing over a picturesque location on the North Shore, condo owners have drawn their weapons while Hanalei Bay Resort’s management company pulls out its shield.

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wftv.com- July 13, 2009

Timeshares Want To Borrow Taxpayer Money CENTRAL FLORIDA, Fla. — It’s hard to get a loan for a new home and for a timeshare it’s nearly impossible. As a result, the industry wants to borrow taxpayers’ money to fulfill those loans and get business moving.

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Winter Park Examiner- Rex Thomas, July 10, 2009

The Decline and Fall of TimeshareLike a bad movie, the plotline for timeshare keeps getting more and more unlikely. In the current economy, sales have dwindled to almost nothing, loans to buyers are at a higher default rate than expected, and Consolidated Resorts, Inc., a Las Vegas timeshare developer, announced filing for bankruptcy yesterday.

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examiner.com- July 10, 2009

Renting Timeshares for your Orlando VacationsA great alternative to staying at a hotel is renting a timeshare for your next vacation week. Most are centrally located, affordable, and come complete with all the comforts of home.

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msnbc.com- July 8, 2009

Hotel and Timeshare Shown in ‘Hawaii Five-O’ Shutting DownHONOLULU – The new owner of an iconic Waikiki property that was featured in the opening title shot of the 1970s TV series “Hawaii Five-0″ said Tuesday it plans to cease operations of the building’s Ilikai hotel in two days.

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wnct.com- July 7, 2009

Attorney General Bans Timeshare Telemarketers from NCAttorney General Roy Cooper has won a battle against a Florida telemarketer who was making a phony pitch.Cooper says Premier Timeshare Vacations, Inc., also known as Paradise Marketing Group, has been calling people in North Carolina who are looking to sell their timeshares.

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forbes.com- February 14, 2009

Red Ink For Wyndham Vacation OwnershipEveryone is cutting expenses where they can amid the economic downturn, and for many consumers and businesses, that means staying home in lieu of business trips and leisure travel. For Wyndham Worldwide, the result is a sea of red ink.

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Orlando Sentinel- October 28, 2008

Timeshare Industry Seeks ReliefThe nation’s leading time-share trade group is suggesting it revive an old practice to thaw the industry’s piece of the frozen credit markets.

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Orlando Business Journal- October 17, 2008

Ed Hastry, president of the National Timeshare Owners Association, says the timeshare industry is in its worst shape in 20 years.