Timesharing . . . Has It's Run It's Course?

[Carolinian Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Carolinian]

IMHO the dynamic that has changed timesharing the most and for the worst is RCI's development of a massive rental-to-the-public plan. It used to be that exclusivity was the glue that held the ownership / exchange model together. One had to own to participate. The rental program made it come unglued. It used to be that a blue week was sort of a starter week to get one's feet wet in the system and that helped give the lesser weeks value, contributing to the stability of the whole system. Since the rental program has started, it has led to owners questioning even ownership of red weeks.

RCI's rental program has led to the following:
1) allowed people to participate in timesharing on a rather wide scale without owning, without the continuing commitments, always at a cheaper price than retail developer purchase and often at a cheaper price than even resale purchase. This lead people to ask the question ''why own when you can rent?''
2) flooded the market with rental inventory, driving down rental prices, including the price individual timeshare owners or HOA's could get for renting their own weeks
3) took inventory out of the exchange pool, including prime inventory, making good exchanges harder to get and causing frustration with the exchange system.
4) for all of the above reasons, hurt resale prices, contributing significantly to the downward spiral of such prices. It also caused more people to want to get out of timesharing, putting more resale inventory on the market, further contributing to that downward spiral.

RCI's creation of its exchange program is what really led to timesharing taking off, but their creation of a rental program may lead to timesharing's demise.

[rdcigc Member Find all posts View Profile Close rdcigc]

As I see it the only way the situation can change would be for a viable competitor to step into the market with a business plan that adds more value to the customers than what RCI is offering. The decision the company would have to make is who are their customers and how much value should each receive. Is it the exchangers or the developers. It believe the continued rentals that are being offered will eventually kill the industry for the reasons listed above number one be the devaluation of all the properties and the exiting of exchangers causing all MF's to rise and increases in special assessments.

[ace2000 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close ace2000]

As I see it the only way the situation can change would be for a viable competitor to step into the market with a business plan that adds more value to the customers than what RCI is offering. The decision the company would have to make is who are their customers and how much value should each receive. Is it the exchangers or the developers. It believe the continued rentals that are being offered will eventually kill the industry for the reasons listed above number one be the devaluation of all the properties and the exiting of exchangers causing all MF's to rise and increases in special assessments.

Don't hold your breath. The timeshare industry is being driven by corporations and profits. You can spin it anyway you want to... RCI, exchanges, recent changes, PCCs, Wyndhams, Westgates, Mariotts, etc., etc., etc. They won't be giving out more, you can count on that.

And the bottom line to this whole discussion is the bottom line.

[rdcigc Member Find all posts View Profile Close rdcigc]

Don't hold your breath. The timeshare industry is being driven by corporations and profits. You can spin it anyway you want to... RCI, exchanges, recent changes, PCCs, Wyndhams, Westgates, Mariotts, etc., etc., etc. They won't be giving out more, you can count on that.

And the bottom line to this whole discussion is the bottom line.

You are correct the business is run by the corporations and profits but that doesn't mean it can't change. If you can remember back a few years Toyota was a hole in the wall car company in Japan and GM was the
"Big Corporation" making all the profit. So what happened. GM was was selling poorer quality cars and people decided to start buying value. This is not the only example but probably the the most blatent one. So..You are right about who runs it now but that does not mean they will be running it in the future. Remember the customers can change the industry.

[ace2000 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close ace2000]

You are correct the business is run by the corporations and profits but that doesn't mean it can't change. If you can remember back a few years Toyota was a hole in the wall car company in Japan and GM was the
"Big Corporation" making all the profit. So what happened. GM was was selling poorer quality cars and people decided to start buying value. This is not the only example but probably the the most blatent one. So..You are right about who runs it now but that does not mean they will be running it in the future. Remember the customers can change the industry.

The timeshare industry is different. It's based on a sales model that pressures people making choices at that moment! It's different because there is generally no comparison shopping. And you can talk all you want about switching to the RCI competitors, but people (or the customers) aren't buying into it... which in reality means there is no real competition.

[chriskre Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close chriskre]

..... but that does not mean they will be running it in the future. Remember the customers can change the industry.

And that's the point.
There ARE other companies changing the way TS-ing is being done going forward, but you gotta move your loyalties to those companies that are doing things differently.

Unfortunately though some people just wanna whine and pine for the old days and that's not the way to deal with the future.

[rdcigc Member Find all posts View Profile Close rdcigc]

And that's the point.
There ARE other companies changing the way TS-ing is being done going forward, but you gotta move your loyalties to those companies that are doing things differently.

Unfortunately though some people just wanna whine and pine for the old days and that's not the way to deal with the future.

You are exactly right but for the change to happen people need to know which of those companies are giving the most value and what are the advantages over what RCI has to offer. Just because your the biggest doesn't make you the best one out there.

[ace2000 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close ace2000]

Unfortunately though some people just wanna whine and pine for the old days and that's not the way to deal with the future.

The future? The future is not going to get any better. Wyndham has made several changes over the past couple of years, and you know what? It's only contributed more to their bottom line. The employees suggesting these unpopular changes are probably promoted to high levels by now, because they increased profits!

The problem is that there is not enough whining going on to make these companies notice. I totally disagree with you.

[BobbyO1967 Member Find all posts View Profile Close BobbyO1967]

Whining about??

Ace, it's one thing to have strong opinions. It's another thing to present matters as factual which aren't - as you just did. I'll just go with "he's passionate" and leave it at that . . .

Like many who used to sell every day, now it's every few days on the secondary market - liquidation is actually a more viable business until the summer, I own multiple weeks and pay multiple maintenance fees. Most of my HOA's hate me.

You don't think good people sit down for long periods and try to come up with fixes?? You don't think the RCI's/Wyndham's and the others don't ask if we've figured anything out??

Again, the level of negativity here is breath taking.

[Carolinian Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Carolinian]

What we need to do is be proactive with our own HOA's to see that they get the information out to members on the alternatives to RCI. Volunteer to write an article for the HOA newsletter, for example.

DAE is a major competitor to RCI in the Australia market, where it first started, so it shows that it can be done. In fact, if you want to trade into Australia, you are much more likely to get there with DAE than either RCI or II.

I think the dynamics of RCI allowing the combination of points lite from different weeks is also going to downgrade the exchange experience of the high value week owners with RCI since it will create more competition for such weeks from people without similar weeks to trade and make it harder for those people to get like for like trades. This is going to open the door big time for SFX in that part of the market.

But the key is getting the word out to timesharers.

[ace2000 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close ace2000]

Ace, it's one thing to have strong opinions. It's another thing to present matters as factual which aren't - as you just did. I'll just go with "he's passionate" and leave it at that . . .

Like many who used to sell every day, now it's every few days on the secondary market - liquidation is actually a more viable business until the summer, I own multiple weeks and pay multiple maintenance fees. Most of my HOA's hate me.

You don't think good people sit down for long periods and try to come up with fixes?? You don't think the RCI's/Wyndham's and the others don't ask if we've figured anything out??

Again, the level of negativity here is breath taking.

All I have to say is that if I was the CEO of Wyndham, or Marriott, or Westgate... I would be ecstatic to see your mindset out there. This is not going to get better folks.

[ace2000 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close ace2000]

What we need to do is be proactive with our own HOA's to see that they get the information out to members on the alternatives to RCI. Volunteer to write an article for the HOA newsletter, for example.

DAE is a major competitor to RCI in the Australia market, where it first started, so it shows that it can be done. In fact, if you want to trade into Australia, you are much more likely to get there with DAE than either RCI or II.

I think the dynamics of RCI allowing the combination of points lite from different weeks is also going to downgrade the exchange experience of the high value week owners with RCI since it will create more competition for such weeks from people without similar weeks to trade and make it harder for those people to get like for like trades. This is going to open the door big time for SFX in that part of the market.

But the key is getting the word out to timesharers.

I haven't seen any traction on this one for years. RCI is not declining, contrary to what some want to believe. It's going to take higher number of people defaulting on their payments for the corporations to notice. Definitely not recommending that though.

[ace2000 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close ace2000]

Ace, it's one thing to have strong opinions. It's another thing to present matters as factual which aren't - as you just did. I'll just go with "he's passionate" and leave it at that . . .

Want to share what you feel is not factual about what I said in my earlier post?

[rdcigc Member Find all posts View Profile Close rdcigc]

I don't think whining is the answer. Companies make decisions based on monetary return so the way you make a company change is to impact the rate of return. This can happen by moving business away from them to one that offers more value. Competition can force change but you have to have a good alternative to the RCI business model. So I have a question. If you could change things at RCI for the better what would you change.

[ace2000 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close ace2000]

I don't think whining is the answer. Companies make decisions based on monetary return so the way you make a company change is to impact the rate of return. This can happen by moving business away from them to one that offers more value. Competition can force change but you have to have a good alternative to the RCI business model. So I have a question. If you could change things at RCI for the better what would you change.

I think you're saying what I said earlier - it's the bottom line. As far as changes... how about making RCI look like it did before the price increases, the rentals, and the policy changes?

Don't think you're going to have much luck though, because there's that word called profits. And not only current profits, but to keep shareholders happy you've got to make more profits. And that means more changes coming down the road. And the owners will get further squeezed.