Timesharing . . . Has It's Run It's Course?

[BobbyO1967 Member Find all posts View Profile Close BobbyO1967]

I would be happy to

Ace, you made two points I strongly disagree with since they are not factual. I will paraphrase them:

1. All decisions are based on some profit conspiracy. Yes, all corporations are designed to make money for their stockholders hence the American Dream. However, most of RCI's decisions have been about reducing dead inventory first in a way that might make money second. While there have been some missteps, at the core are logistical considerations and not greed.

2. You tried to imply that the folks responsible for those decisions have been promoted solely based on their "greed acuity". I can tell you that is not true. I know a good number of folks in Wyndham (I sell 6 of their resorts in Newport and Jamestown, I started at Eastern which merged with Peppertree and became Equivest, bought by Cendant merged with Fairfield, release of the Cendant mobility stock fiasco and the change to Wyndham.) To be quite frank, they can hardly tell how they get promoted.

I will tell you there are a lot of rules and greed acuity is not a factor.

[bnoble Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close bnoble]

the era of using exchange from RCI as a selling point may goes to tubes now

Doubtful. RCI has always been about "possibility" not "reality". What's more, even in "the good old days" only the savvy got really good value out of RCI. Witching Hours. Ongoing Search match orders. Internal preferences. Tiger traders. None of this was obvious to the casual observer. And most timeshare owners are the very definition of "casual observer".

So, people actually owns the share believe although the information is available on line, there are enough naive people will buy. Or they are more naive than the TS owner that buys from the developer.

Exactly. I started considering a timeshare purchase about five years ago. It's not like it was some big secret even then---anyone with an internet connection, a half hour of time, and a little bit of common sense could figure out that buying from the developer was about the stupidest thing you could do. Yet, developers are still selling, even into the stiff headwind that is the current economy. And, as the recovery (slowly) continues, sales growth follows.

Timeshare has *never* been a good deal in the strictly dollars-and-cents sense. It's *always* been about bottling that magic up forever "at today's prices". And, the people who don't take the effort to peek behind the curtain are happy with that bargain. They feel good about their purchase as long as they can use it. There's a reason why *current* timeshare owners buy on sales tours more frequently than those who don't already own something---they like the product!

[bnoble Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close bnoble]

One addendum: I think external exchange *is* becoming less and less of a factor on the sales floor as more systems go to point-based mini-system/internal exchanges. Why worry about RCI when you have Wyndham's dozens and dozens of resorts? It would take a long time just to exhaust the internal possibilities. Smaller systems (e.g. Disney) rely on it more to provide variety. But, this too may pass.

[ace2000 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close ace2000]

Ace, you made two points I strongly disagree with since they are not factual. I will paraphrase them:

1. All decisions are based on some profit conspiracy. Yes, all corporations are designed to make money for their stockholders hence the American Dream. However, most of RCI's decisions have been about reducing dead inventory first in a way that might make money second. While there have been some missteps, at the core are logistical considerations and not greed.

These two statements contradict each other, so I'll leave it at that. I'm not even buying your statement about 'dead inventory'. Can you tell us how you know that logistical considerations were the core reason? I'd be curious about that one.

2. You tried to imply that the folks responsible for those decisions have been promoted solely based on their "greed acuity". I can tell you that is not true. I know a good number of folks in Wyndham (I sell 6 of their resorts in Newport and Jamestown, I started at Eastern which merged with Peppertree and became Equivest, bought by Cendant merged with Fairfield, release of the Cendant mobility stock fiasco and the change to Wyndham.) To be quite frank, they can hardly tell how they get promoted.

I will tell you there are a lot of rules and greed acuity is not a factor.

Yes, I did imply that Wyndham as a corporation is driven by 'greed'. I do have a MBA degree, but even a high school business student could've figured that one out. For you to imply that greed (or profits) was not the reason for the changes makes me laugh.

Let's use the decision of Wyndham taking away the ability of owners to transfer points amongst each other as an example ...

Do you realize how much extra income that has produced for Wyndham over that past couple of years? You don't think the employee or manager that is responsible for that goldmine got promoted?

Or how about the employee/manager who came up with the concept of renting RCI inventory? Same question to you?

Please don't make me laugh so much. It's starting to get hysterical around here.

[ace2000 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close ace2000]

One addendum: I think external exchange *is* becoming less and less of a factor on the sales floor as more systems go to point-based mini-system/internal exchanges. Why worry about RCI when you have Wyndham's dozens and dozens of resorts? It would take a long time just to exhaust the internal possibilities. Smaller systems (e.g. Disney) rely on it more to provide variety. But, this too may pass.

Have you been to a presentation lately? They most always will flip through the catalog with the many thousands of resorts that you can 'exchange' to, and will never tell you the real cost of that exchange.

[bnoble Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close bnoble]

Well, of course they do, because it's "one more thing". But, how *important* is it to the sale? For some guests with a particular desire not covered by the mini, it is probably important. But, for the "average" guest who just wants a lot of choices, the mini will do, especially if it is both large and diverse.

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

Yes, this means that the RCI rental concept will never go away. And there will be plenty of boardroom meetings dreaming of ways on how they can make that segment be even more profitable.

Sorry, as much as I hate the concept, continuing the negative drumbeat on the RCI rentals will achieve absolutely nothing over time.

On the web, RCI is already labeled as the Wyndham rental division, or wording meaning that.

Wyndham Exchange and Rentals (Formerly Group RCI)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wyndham_Worldwide

You need to be careful about your negative comments about the industry, too. I'm sure, people are keeping a tab on everyone.

People who don't know any better, and trust a person at their word, will continue to buy. I think Tony decribed it well recently.

BTW, when I said our early years were our happiest, that is why, because we didn't know any better and trusted people at their word. Disclosure, self-acquired, ended that.

[ace2000 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close ace2000]

You need to be careful about your negative comments about the industry, too. I'm sure, people are keeping a tab on everyone.

I just call 'em like I see 'em. No agenda, and I don't think you get a ton of negative posts from me. Just adding to the discussion.

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

I just call 'em like I see 'em. No agenda, and I don't think you get a ton of negative posts from me. Just adding to the discussion.

I see, it is the weight that matters, not the message?

Yeah, I spose mine weigh a ton by now.

But then, the totality of my comments over the years weighs several tons, by comparison, so, it still depends on perception.

Actually, the gleaners find my positive comments, but there are so few opportunities for them any more . . . . (sigh). Like, I would mention it if that Ongoing Search that I was promised would make a match a year ago, did. That's one of those deals where everyone who knows better than me said it would if I would just use it.

Or, the person who said, "Just wait until you see what's coming. You're really gonna love it." or something to that affect

Generally speaking, though, if ya wanna be in the in crowd on the Internet, or in life, you should pretend to agree and try to fit in.

[ace2000 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close ace2000]

I see, it is the weight that matters, not the message?

Yeah, I spose mine weigh a ton by now.

But then, the totality of my comments over the years weighs several tons, by comparison, so, it still depends on perception.

Actually, the gleaners find my positive comments, but there are so few opportunities for them any more . . . . (sigh). Like, I would mention it if that Ongoing Search that I was promised would make a match a year ago, did.

Generally speaking, though, if ya wanna be in the in crowd on the Internet, or in life, you should pretend to agree and try to fit in.

I definitely wasn't insinuating anything about you. I think you add a TON of value to TS4MS and are still greatly missed on TUG. So, don't think I was referring to you (or anyone else for that matter).

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

I definitely wasn't insinuating anything about you. I think you add a TON of value to TS4MS and are still greatly missed on TUG. So, don't think I was referring to you (or anyone else for that matter).

Wow! You should feel the cockles of my heart. Here. Feel.

Funny that you should mention that cuz even after all this time I still get emails from folks OY asking questions, seeking advice. Much more often than I woulda thought.

Another funny is that the aluminum recycling bin that I started at the golf course, that I took so much grief for, that led to my demise OY in the thread It's Hard to be Green, is still there.

& I still get grief.

It's good to have constants, and people wallowing in the past . . . not you . . . people.

Here. Feel them. No, over here. Yeah. There.

Warm, huh?

[rdcigc Member Find all posts View Profile Close rdcigc]

This discussion is great. My hope is that even if RCI is not monitoring it that the other exchange companies are and they see the opportunity to make changes that will undermine their compition(RCI). I hope they understand when an industry imposes a compromise on its customers, the company that breaks the compromise stands to gain a significant competitive advantage. I think that is why it is important that we continue to throw out changes that we wish RCI would make to improve the exchange business.

[Carolinian Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Carolinian]

Dead inventory? That dog doesn't hunt!

If you look at what they have for rent, much of it is prime inventory. If you look at what they actually rent, it is very disproportionately prime inventory. When I was an HOA president, our manager had figured out the codes on the RCI inbound reports to be able to tell which ones were rentals. Then, we went back to look at what had come in as RCI rentals to that resort. They were almost all in high season or shoulder season, at times when exchangers would have taken all inventory availible. None of what they rented would have become ''dead inventory''. They were renting exchange deposits that were prime inventory.

One poster OY found her own week on RCI's rental site. It was a prime summer OBX week, deposited solely for exchange, not as PFD or for a cruise or anything else.

Then we have the RCI employees, Bootleg on this and several other sites and Anon at timesharetalk who saw repeatedly on their RCI computers where prime weeks deposited for exchange were diverted to RCI's rental pool. They posted online what they saw.

I could post other examples, but it is very well established that RCI is diverting prime exchange deposits to rentals. I wonder what your agenda is to claim otherwise.

Ace, you made two points I strongly disagree with since they are not factual. I will paraphrase them:

1. All decisions are based on some profit conspiracy. Yes, all corporations are designed to make money for their stockholders hence the American Dream. However, most of RCI's decisions have been about reducing dead inventory first in a way that might make money second. While there have been some missteps, at the core are logistical considerations and not greed.

2. You tried to imply that the folks responsible for those decisions have been promoted solely based on their "greed acuity". I can tell you that is not true. I know a good number of folks in Wyndham (I sell 6 of their resorts in Newport and Jamestown, I started at Eastern which merged with Peppertree and became Equivest, bought by Cendant merged with Fairfield, release of the Cendant mobility stock fiasco and the change to Wyndham.) To be quite frank, they can hardly tell how they get promoted.

I will tell you there are a lot of rules and greed acuity is not a factor.

[Jeanne Sz Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Jeanne Sz]

This forum has been the most important asset of my timeshare ownership. I'm not new to ownership but a lot newer than many here, and fairly new to the forum, but thanks to discussions like this I am better informed concerning how I can get the most from my ownership.
For instance, last year I saw the opportunity to use 3 1 bedroom deposits to get 3 2 bedroom units for the same resort, same week this summer, so my family and friends will enjoy July 4th week together. I'm glad I did that before November because it would be virtually impossible now. In fact, it would take 3 weeks to get 1 unit at the same resort. I can rent directly from the resort for less than that. So I will be content spending a nice P-week vacation in my home resort in 2013.
I've also compared the RCI portal options through Wyndham and found little to be happy about. I usually book Wyndham when they offer special discounts on points at a resort in a location I want to visit. My RCI membership is paid via Wyndham ownership, so I guess I'll keep it even if I don't plan to use it, because I doubt Wyndham will refund that amount.
I also own a SW week resale, which I got free. Got it because it's a Gold Plus in a place I like to stay, and with the float I can choose when I want to go there. It also is a great trader in II and SFX, which can get me to some very nice places if I ever want. All of this I learned from watching these discussions. It's helped make me an informed and happy timeshare owner. Knowledge is power. So no, I don't think timesharing has run its course. It's just changing. We can still pay our MFs, enjoy our vacations, and hope the "little guys" are learning how to get more of RCI and II's business. Marriott's too.

[JWC Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close JWC]

Yes, I did imply that Wyndham as a corporation is driven by 'greed'. I do have a MBA degree, but even a high school business student could've figured that one out. For you to imply that greed (or profits) was not the reason for the changes makes me laugh.

As an MBA, you sure don't understand business. You are implying that profits and greed are the same thing. The business of any business is to make money. In other words earning a profit is why any business exists. Their first obligation is to the owners ( shareholders in a public company ). There is nothing wrong about any company boosting its profits as long as it is done legally. That is what they are supposed to do. Your right is to go elsewhere if you don't like what they are doing.