Timesharing . . . Has It's Run It's Course?

[odaddy Gold Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close odaddy]

Apparently from Disney's point of view, those sins have been forgiven. What's more, Fairfield did not flee, but rather started doing fixed week conversions at some resorts primarily at II affiliations. They also did not come back at Fairfield purchase time as those affiliations were retained at II until just this year, when new purchasers at those resorts are now enrolled in RCI; previously they had been enrolled at II. WorldMark inventory remains primarily in II, though some inventory also goes to RCI. WorldMark owners remain able to exchange in both systems.

Worldmark definitely fled from RCI, the BOD could not stand it until worldmark was bought by Cendant and the BOD got their paychecks from Cendant.

[Carolinian Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Carolinian]

RCI's rental programs are the big thing that puts the future of timesharing into question. It is responsible for such things as:

- the estimate in the latest Timesharing Today Express that 50% of all owner-controlled HOA's are at risk of insolvency in the next few years.

- the comments at last years Timeshare Stripped Bare conference by a major European timeshare developer that cheap rentals were not only hurting his sales but also his member retention.

[timeos2 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close timeos2]

RCI's rental programs are the big thing that puts the future of timesharing into question. It is responsible for such things as:

- the estimate in the latest Timesharing Today Express that 50% of all owner-controlled HOA's are at risk of insolvency in the next few years.

- the comments at last years Timeshare Stripped Bare conference by a major European timeshare developer that cheap rentals were not only hurting his sales but also his member retention.

Low cost rentals are indeed creating problems especially for low value time owners. But blaming RCI rentals - as bad as they are- isn't realistic. The rise of the Internet and the corresponding ability of owners to find out about low cost resales and rentals played at least as big a role and probably more than RCI did. It all happened around the same time so it is tough to say for sure but your desire to place it all on RCI is a big stretch.

[tonyg Goomba & Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close tonyg]

I also hand some blame to RCI and their rental programs. If the units were unused rather than rented, it would e better for the HOA's. Cheap rentals discourage ownership, which helps lead to more foreclosures and non-producing ownerships. Non owners renting units may also be more prone to doing damage to units and caused at least one fractional ownership resort I know of to leave RCI's exchange program.

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

I also hand some blame to RCI and their rental programs. If the units were unused rather than rented, it would be better for the HOA's. Cheap rentals discourage ownership, which helps lead to more foreclosures and non-producing ownerships. Non owners renting units may also be more prone to doing damage to units and caused at least one fractional ownership resort I know of to leave RCI's exchange program.

Amen.

When RCI rentals appeared at one of our resorts, I contacted everyone on the board with an email link. All but one was clueless, thanking RCI for bringing value to their resort.

(I did that largely because someone I was close to OY did that with GPP, when he saw RCI renting their stuff, and GPP put an end to it).

The board turned my documentation over to management at the resort, who presented it to their RCI rep, who denied it. End of story. Did I say clueless?

The decline accelerated at that point. We used to put unneeded weeks in their rental pool, and get most of our fee back. No more. Now I am relegated to craigslist or just walking away.

Come to think of it, boards are not unlike internet forums. You can present the evidence all you want, but some will continue to deny it, because they, personally, don't think they are affected by what you are pointing out.

But, then, if the powers that be don't see anything wrong with a veritable monopoly raising their prices up to quadruple for some customers while leaving them the same, or lowering them, for others, during a recession, and during a period when that company is supposedly being held to legal scrutiny, then only the most steadfast could see any hope of correcting the improprieties.

[ace2000 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close ace2000]

I was just thinking about this thread, and was going to re-read it and find out why some believe RCI rentals are such a big factor. Thanks for the last few posts, you saved me some reading this morning (while I'm sitting here drinking my morning coffee). I feel RCI may be a factor, but not one of the most important factors...

I believe the two biggest factors involved in the decline:

The corporate mindset now controlling the industry and the resulting squeeze on the owners. Another example added to my previous items... they're selling point programs that appeal to the owners in a sales presentation, but over time, when the owner finds out the rise in fees that the point programs cost, the owners get further disgruntled. Next, they start to wonder if it's even worth it to own, especially when they can 'rent' cheaper. Again I ask, what kind of program is coming next? They will have to keep getting creative to keep their earnings on the rise.

Plus the rapid increase in maintenance fees over the past several years, way beyond the inflation rate. If low maintenance fees made the initial purchase worthwhile, fewer people would be dumping; dumping by either 'walking away', selling to the PCC's, or just selling on the resale market. The resulting endless market supply is killing the resale value of ownership.

[ace2000 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close ace2000]

The corporate mindset now controlling the industry and the resulting squeeze on the owners.

Even if you believe that RCI is a core cause of the problems, I believe we're on the same wavelength here. But, the driving force behind the RCI issues that are occurring is the corporate mindset.

[Carolinian Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Carolinian]

You have a point where you are talking about developer controlled resorts. They keep trying to resell existing owners what they already own, which is all an overlay points program is. It is apt that overlay points programs were developed by a former loan shark (or tallyman as they are called there), Andrew Davies, in South Africa.

When it comes to owner controlled resorts, however, there is no corporate shark in the picture. The own to use members tend to be happy. It is the exchangers who are becoming unhappy, and largely at one exchange company. If the exchangers bolt at the owner-controlled resorts, it creates financial problems. Owner unhappiness with RCI is the root of why Timesharing Today is reporting that 50% of owner-controlled resorts are facing insolvency in a few years.

I was just thinking about this thread, and was going to re-read it and find out why some believe RCI rentals are such a big factor. Thanks for the last few posts, you saved me some reading this morning (while I'm sitting here drinking my morning coffee). I feel RCI may be a factor, but not one of the most important factors...

I believe the two biggest factors involved in the decline:

The corporate mindset now controlling the industry and the resulting squeeze on the owners. Another example added to my previous items... they're selling point programs that appeal to the owners in a sales presentation, but over time, when the owner finds out the rise in fees that the point programs cost, the owners get further disgruntled. Next, they start to wonder if it's even worth it to own, especially when they can 'rent' cheaper. Again I ask, what kind of program is coming next? They will have to keep getting creative to keep their earnings on the rise.

Plus the rapid increase in maintenance fees over the past several years, way beyond the inflation rate. If low maintenance fees made the initial purchase worthwhile, fewer people would be dumping; dumping by either 'walking away', selling to the PCC's, or just selling on the resale market. The resulting endless market supply is killing the resale value of ownership.

[Carolinian Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Carolinian]

Redweek rentals, at least after the RCI rental outlets have left, has not been a problem for resorts. Neither have the local brokers who have been renting for years. The wide availibility of cheap rentals through RCI, is however. If you don't beleive that RCI is the source of most of those cut rate rentals out there, then book one and see who the paperwork comes from. And again, blue week resales from HOA's have been $100 on the OBX for a decade and that has not created a problem by itself.

Anywhere RCI is peddling cheap rentals - like they do in the overbuilt areas - is at risk.

Low cost rentals are indeed creating problems especially for low value time owners. But blaming RCI rentals - as bad as they are- isn't realistic. The rise of the Internet and the corresponding ability of owners to find out about low cost resales and rentals played at least as big a role and probably more than RCI did. It all happened around the same time so it is tough to say for sure but your desire to place it all on RCI is a big stretch.

[Ryne08 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Ryne08]

Will timeshare be here in the next twenty years? Yes!! Because there are still a whole new generations of once to bee's with the mind set that I must own a t/s villas to vacation liked my parents. Who owned and had many happy families vacations memories at a timeshare resort some where in the United States or the Caribbean Island.

This is my opinion only.

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

They keep trying to resell existing owners what they already own, .

As has RCI, repeatedly, each time to raise another source of revenue from an existing customer base. The loyalty is to the source of income, not the customer, don't you think?

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

Will timeshare be here in the next twenty years? Yes!! Because there are still a whole new generations of once to bee's with the mind set that I must own a t/s villas to vacation liked my parents. Who owned and had many happy families vacations memories at a timeshare resort some where in the United States or the Caribbean Island.

This is my opinion only.

I don't sense many kids doing what their parents did, and especially in this case.

This is my opinion only.

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

I guess the answer you are looking for now that you have purchased a home in the part of the country that you found and fell in love with thru timesharing is - yes, it has run its' course.

Is that the answer you are looking for?

For a thread you tried to bury as a personal vendetta (mine or yours), it has proven to be of interest to others besides me.

Sorry. You tried.

[eal Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close eal]

My kids are very internet savvy and can find cheap rentals for almost anywhere they want to go. I doubt if they would ever make the long-term commitment that timesharing requires.

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

My kids are very internet savvy and can find cheap rentals for almost anywhere they want to go. I doubt if they would ever make the long-term commitment that timesharing requires.

Almost exactly the words I was gonna post a couple of posts ago.

Today's kids are far more savvy and worldly than their parents and grandparents, some of whom are still struggling with computers and internet type stuff.

I don't see the next generation being as gullible and uninformed as their parents and grandparents and not inclined to make the same uninformed decisions.

There is also a good chance they will not be as affluent as boomers.