Point Potential... Another Scam or Legit?

[perryerin2007 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close perryerin2007]

Hello Everyone,

I am new to the Timeshare Forums, and was looking to see if anyone has ever heard of, or been contacted by a company called Point Potential. They want us to buy more points at a discount, to be able to use our timeshare to it's full potential, allowing for us to vacation, as well as renting out our timeshare to offset maintenance. They would handle getting the rentals for a 35% fee, per rental. There are no upfront fees, but by buying more points, are we throwing more money away, and potentially being stuck with more maintenance fees if this company doesn't pan out?

I appreciate your feedback.

[Carolinian Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Carolinian]

This is a timeshare company trying to sell you something. Once you part with your money, don't expect any of their promises to pan out. If you want more timeshare, buy it resale, not from a timeshare quasi-developer. eBay is the bargain basement for buying.

[perryerin2007 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close perryerin2007]

Okay, thanks for your response!

[LifeOfRiley Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close LifeOfRiley]

Point Potential

We were contacted by Point Potential as well and listened to their spiel.

They won't do rental for you unless you buy more points. Alarm bells go off when a company offers one thing, but has a requirement for an investment.

The numbers don't work on this either. We asked about where they are promoting their rental units and got some vague answers that we were unable to substantiate. I did some research and found some of their promotions. They are advertising the rentals for considerably less than what they told us in the presentation. If you crunch the numbers on this, it doesn't pencil out.

We'd be taking on more maintenance fees and actually losing money when we factor in the rental amount, their 35% fee. Add the cost of buying more points and this is a bad deal. Plus, there is a major risk that the rental
won't work out or last very long. Getting into a deal where you'd be dependent upon a single company for results is problematic. Be wary of Point Potential.

[imagooch Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close imagooch]

We have been clients of Point Potential for four months now and they have rented out all the points that we have made available. Enough income to pay our monthly fees for 10 Months!!! Our goal in buying the extra points was to have enough to cover the monthly timeshare fees. And we will definitely do that. And we have had a two-week holiday as well and have enough points left for another two in October. We have had great service from PP in working through the roadblocks set up by Paypal. Even with the Canadian dollar exchange rate, we are happy.
True, we did have to buy another set of points from them but I foresee that when these become available to us in a few months, that we will not only be able to pay our maintenance fees, but there will be enough to cover thw cost of the extra points and then help to reimburse the original cost of the Wyndham points as well.. We are so glad thet we listened to the cold call, rather than hanging up with a brush-off as I usually do.

[MarkExposingTheTruth Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close MarkExposingTheTruth]

Warning to Wyndham Owners Considering Point Potential

WARNING! What Wyndham Owners Need to Know

Point Potential - From a Former Employee

Hello, my name is Mark. I used to work at Point Potential. I was one of those people calling you and pitching you the Point Potential program. I signed on with them several weeks ago. We have recently parted ways. I was unfamiliar with the timeshare industry but I found their proposition interesting. It sounded good and appeared promising. I was not aware of the plethora of scams being perpetrated on timeshare owners when I started. In hindsight, I wish I would have done more due diligence prior to committing my resources to a company that is so new and unestablished.

My opinion is that Point Potential is not a company to do business with and is not the solution to getting relief from paying maintenance fees. You'll likely end up with more maintenance fees instead of less. See Background Info below for more on my experiences, observations with this company including the bizarre behaviors that triggered my suspicions that something is wrong with Point Potential. I decided to investigate further and go beyond the sales pitch. In brief, what I found is the representations of Point Potential are in conflict with the facts and their actions.

Here are the highlights for this post:

What Wyndham Owners Should Know
* Unlicensed Salespersons
* Misstatements regarding time in business
* Concealing a material fact in the Plus Partners program
* Lies about business model and true intentions

Conclusion
Additional Reading

Point Potential makes the majority of its money from points sales not rental.


Unlicensed salespeople

Many of the people soliciting and pitching for Point Potential are not licensed. According to California Department of Real Estate (DRE), timeshare salespersons, including those selling resale points, are required to be licensed. This includes all the the people involved in the sales process. DRE has confirmed this and says there are no exceptions that would apply to Point Potential. Additionally, according to the CA Dept Real Estate, prior to 6/21/11 there was no Broker-of-Record for the company as required by law. Point Potential has made thousands of solicitations to Wyndham owners and closed numerous transactions without being in compliance with real estate laws and regulations.

You can check this for yourself by logging on to the Department of Real Estate website and type in the name of the company. Or you can phone (213) 620-2072.

DRE - Public Licensee Information

If Point Potential wants to provide documentation to me for why they are excluded from licensing requirements, I will consider modifying this statement to reflect the information. In the meantime, ask the person soliciting you for their license number.

Misrepresentations Regarding Time in Business

Point Potential represents to consumers that they have been in business 2 ½ -3 years. California Department of Corporations indicates Point Potential was incorporated and started in business 4/10/11. A fictitious business name filed in Orange County, CA 3/22/2011. The evidence says 3 months not 3 years. I asked about this when I was there, but was ignored.

To see for yourself, just log onto the CA Secretary of State website and type in the company name.

Business Search - Business Entities - Business Programs

Although the Better Business Bureau (BBB) says the company was started in 6/30/2008, I suspect this is bogus. The BBB is NOT a government agency. BBB says it takes most of its information from the companies it reports on and does not verify it. Any new business can obtain an "A" rating by paying the membership dues. Take BBB info with a grain-of-salt.

If Point Potential wants to provide the documentation that will indicate something different than the CA Secretary of State Web site or the Orange County data, I will adjust this statement in accordance with the documentation.

Concealing a Material Fact - The Plus Partners Program

This segment of the pitch is misleading, conceals a material fact and requires disclaimers if Point Potential cared to comply with real estate law.

There is a segment in the Point Potential pitch on the Wyndham Plus Partners Program. The purpose of the Plus Partners segment is to load-up the customer with more points by going over the prospective customer’s use of services/products that are in the Plus Partners program.
(car rentals, cruses, hotels, theme parks, air-line tickets.)

Wyndham member services agreement does not allow adding resale points to an existing Plus Partners account. To use resale points for Plus Partners would require starting a second Plus Partners account and paying an additional $2380. Point Potential does not make this known to prospective customers. They also do not tell their unlicensed salespeople. To present Plus Partners the way Point Potential does by concealing this important fact is a violation of the real estate law. Legal or not, this segment is misleading and not the way a company seeking long-term relations with customers would present it.

You can check this for yourself by calling Wyndham at 800-786-6764.

Besides, if the Point Potential rental program is so viable, why wouldn’t Point Potential want keep these points out of Plus Partners and have these points in their rental program where they can earn 35% off of them? The reason: point sales are many times more profitable than rental. Point Potential's business is point sales not rental. Actions speak louder than words. Actions are where the truth can be found, not in a sales script.

Furthermore, in my tenure at Point Potential I spoke to scores of Wyndham owners and never spoke to anyone that found the Plus Partners program to be a good use of points anyway. If Point Potential was sincerely attempting to do right by their customers, why would they be advocating people use points, and buy more, for what is universally known to be a lousy use of points? The best bang-for-your-dollar for point use is using them for resort stays. And the list end with that ONE item. In some instances, I understand RCI might make some sense. So maybe two items, in certain situations, on the list at most.

Point Potential's Actions Indicate Their Rental Program is Weak

By advocating people load-up on using points for Plus Partners, Point Potential is indicating that their rental program makes less sense and is after Plus Partners in terms of best deal for points spent. Well folks, any program that is behind Plus Partner's in value for points spent is a crappy program and not even worth your time looking at. So the Point Potential rental program delivers less value than Plus Partners, AND you have to pony-up to the table and buy more points and take on more maintenance fees to do it? Geeeze! This is one bad deal.

I asked for product training on Plus Partners to see if I was missing something and there were instances where Plus Partners ever made sense and I was again ignored, labeled a "rebel" and told "we are not changing the script".

Lies About Business Model and True Intentions

Point Potential solicits Wyndham owners touting the promise of eliminating maintenance fees. Naturally, most Wyndham owners are intrigued by the possibility of this proposition and many will agree to 30 minute demo they are asked to schedule. (The demo, in reality, is more like 90 -120 minutes.)

Point Potential will not do a rental for you unless you buy points. So they claim their business is rental at a 35% fee, but they won’t do a rental with you unless you buy points no matter how many spare points you have? The lure of rental income generates point sales. Profit from point sales are several times that of rental and the value of the rental is questionable. Here again, the actions of Point Potential are where you can find the truth, not the sales script. The money for the company is in point sales not rental. There's nothing wrong with making money. And provided the seller is licensed, and compliant with the laws and regulations, nothing inherently wrong with selling points. What’s wrong here is the deception, misstatements and outright lies about business model and intentions. And why all the secrecy and paranoia about the "rental" program? What is Point Potential hiding?

Conclusion:

I realize Wyndham owners may be frustrated with their maintenance fees. I also realize Wyndham owners are at times seeking a way to get some value for unused points, somehow, someway. Point Potential is not the solution. The actions of Point Potential are where the truth is found: 1.) no rental unless you buy points; 2.) using point for Plus Partners is better than using them for rental. Actions tell us, the business of Point Potential is point sales not rental. Actions tells us, Point Potential's rental program delivers less value than Plus Partners.

By buying extra points to do rental, there's a big risk you'll end up worse off with even more maintenance fees without offsetting revenue. You'll likely end up with more maintenance fees, not less and additional points you can't use. This company's representations are in conflict with their actions. Point Potential makes way too many misstatements, fabrications and outright lies. There are way too many inconsistencies, discrepancies and self-serving recommendations. All this from a company that claims to be legitimate and care about its customers? No sale here. I am not convinced. Not even close.

Spending money to try and generate rental money has proven not to work. As the word gets out, scammers promoting up-front fees for doing rental, fortunately, have an increasingly difficult time obtaining victims. Therefore, they need to innovate and come up with something new. This is just a dressed-up scheme to get money from you, with a new twist. Avoid the disappointment of another scheme that doesn't pan out and hang-up on Point Potential.

Be careful,

Mark

Additional Reading

There is another thread about Point Potential on the Tugs bulletin board where you'll find some additional information and opinions from other Wyndham owners as well as some propaganda from Point Potential.

[NoMoreMaintFees Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close NoMoreMaintFees]

Extortion and Slander

If I may also voice my thoughts. I’m a current employee of Point Potential, and in fact sat right next to Mark. I feel it should be understood the circumstances in which he was terminated and the events leading up to it. I’m not a manager, I’m an Account Manager just as Mark was. Here is what I witnessed.


-First of all he was TOTALLY out of compliance with our company’s guidelines on conduct over the phone as well as topics/revenues we were able to discuss with potential clients, (mostly because those topics are not in our job description and a whole separate department’s arena, rental). I MYSELF notified management when I overheard him multiple times whispering figures and potential rental revenues that were not only outlandish, but completely out of the realm of possibility with what we do. We never promise to make people rich, but he falsely promised to. I can only imagine what the unfortunate owners who he talked to think of our company now. Probably that we sound no different than the scamming organizations that are all over the place, when in fact our business model is 100% legitimate and apples and oranges different than what those other guys proposition. I knew he was trying to make money, but this was outrageous. HE himself was BEING a scammer, not to mention completely misrepresenting our company. A company founded to HELP timeshare owners through a logical solution to covering the never-ending cycle of maintenance fees through a business model structured on truth, moral values and good old American capitalism. His used car salesman approach of lies and “pie in the sky” promises were absolutely outside of our company’s direct and honest mission statement, therefore grounds for termination and the precise reason he was terminated.


I also must add that the fact that after a few weeks of working here, he started pacing around the office, playing with his spit, chewing on his lips, talking to himself, scratching his head uncontrollably, and unable to sit still for more than a few minutes time was odd. This, paired with the fact that he reeked of toxic sweat, and never seemed to wash his clothes or shower, was erratic behavior and a little offensive to me, especially sitting in such close proximity to him, but that wasn’t my place to comment on one’s social behaviors or personal hygiene. The former behavior though was where I drew the line; he was putting my job and this company on the line.


Anyway, one final straw caused his termination, he came in to work on a day where the managers were already planning to address his noncompliance, COMPLETELY drugged out of his mind. This was apparent to EVERYONE in the office, and really started to frighten myself and the other females in the office especially. He was escorted out of the building where I heard him threatening a manager.
Since his dismissal two weeks ago he has sent more threats, mainly that he would post false claims as he has done above and elsewhere only if Point Potential did not give him $10,000. Needless to say we have had police officers and attorneys in our office addressing his threats of sending “torpedoes” and extortion, so it’s only a matter of time until Mark is held responsible for his actions, but we’ll let our legal system take care of that. In the meantime it is obvious that he is trying to post as much slander and false claims against our company before he is likely incarcerated.


This is sad. Drug addiction can bring you to rock bottom, but this even lower. To Mark I ask you why? You knew you were out of compliance with our company’s guidelines, plus it shouldn’t be surprising that drug use and the work place are not a good match. I would have assumed you would have bowed your head in shame and slipped back into the shadows, where apparently you live since the address that you applied with is a strip mall. Is that where you’re hiding and took the bus from everyday? You know that the claims you are making against Point Potential are false. I realize that you are upset with one of the managers because you no longer have the ability to work here. You KNOW what we are doing here is so great for both us and our clients, and that we are going to continue to grow and succeed as we have. You know you’re trying your hardest to damage the young, honest and successful company that gave you a chance but you blew it. A company that takes PRIDE in our squeaky clean reputation, who do you think is more legit - a disgruntled former employee or the BBB?

In fact, he clearly knows nothing about how Wyndham's timeshare program even works. Particularly Plus Partners. Most owners own more than one deed under a single member number and as long as the member number participates in the Plus Partners program, all deeds and points carry the benefits. You can even pick up Plus Partners for free from Wyndham if you bought your timeshare after Wyndham started offering Plus Partners. So I don't know where he was going with all that. The $2,498 he quoted was a fee if an owner does not have Plus Partners and has an old deed. Completely irrelevant because every owner I've spoken to has Plus Partners, but if an owner didn't have it we obviously would not tout its benefits.

Also to that point - is a homeless man more legit than our non-drugged out team of attorneys who have ensured we stay 100% in compliance with every organization that regulates us, including the DRE? More legit than the new broker who represents us? The only change I've noticed is a new broker's name on a frame on the wall.

I would encourage any of you reading this to keep looking online for SOME OTHER word of displeasure about our company OTHER THAN IN THE LAST TWO WEEKS, you won’t find one. Look at the dates of this slander and the similar verbiage and tone in all of it THEN make your own conclusion about who is writing it.*

[MarkExposingTheTruth Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close MarkExposingTheTruth]

More falsehoods from Point Potential

No More Maintenance Fees.

Folks,

Please notice, No More Maintenance Fees did not dispute the facts. Regardless, of whatever someone is accused rightly or wrongly does not change the facts. (I’m addressing the false accusation below.)

The facts are these and Point Potential did not dispute them:


1) Point Potential is and has been selling real estate without proper licensing (You don’t have to take my word for this, verify it with the California Department of Real Estate and ask the person calling you for their license number.) (213) 620-2072.

2) Point Potential misrepresents its time in business to potential customers (You don’t have to take my word for this, verify it with the California Secretary of State’s Office. ) (Contact info in previous post)

3) Point Potential misrepresents the Plus Partners Program.
(Again, you can verify this with Wyndham and their sales script)

4) Point Potential rental program is presented behind Plus Partners indicating the rental returns less than points spent on Plus Partners.


If you’re not going to get rental income and a predictable amount of it, why are you buying extra points?

There are numerous other violations I can post and I will if Point Potential wants to keep going around with this. Point Potential was represented to me as a legitimate company.

As for the acquisition, this is false and an outright lie. DEFAMATION. No More Maintenance Fees, you should talk to your attorney about this and review the penalties of falsely accusing someone. You did this from the company’s office with their equipment and likely under their direction. You are both culpable for defamation.

For the record, there was a trumped up allegation made against me for drug abuse. (I wasn’t going to get into the mud with this, but if Point Potential want’s to mud-wrestle, I can mud-wrestle with the best of them.) This allegation was completely FALSE and I can prove it.


Immediately after leaving their office I stopped and took a drug test to refute this. The drug test will prove there are and have not been any illegal substances in my body. The closest an illegal substance came to entering in my body would be a few years ago at a concert when someone thirty-yards away was smoking pot and the wind changed directions and blew the smoke my way. That is it. No drugs never.

What triggered this false allegation by Point Potential, is I asked a rather benign question about the company’s business practices. They went ballistic and came gunning for me. Later that day, they locked me out and accused me of being on drugs. DEFAMATION.

Legitimate company’s don’t mind their employees asking questions and gaining a better understanding for their business. I can only surmise, I touched on something sensitive that they were afraid of.

I urge people reading this and trying to decipher the truth and form an opinion, to look for the facts that you can verify with government sources.
The BBB is not a government source. BBB states on their website that they take the information a company provides it and present it without verifying it.

I urge anyone trying to decipher the truth to verify with government sources, including the Secretary of State's office, The California Department of Real Estate.

[Glitter Brunello Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Glitter Brunello]

I am locking this thread as it can no longer be of use to the OP.

Mark/NoMore, please take your dispute private and note the Rules of Conduct here.