Deed-Backs

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

So assuming that people can/are just walking away is a misconception and far less of an issue than some may think.

Much of my respect for you, based on years of accumulated comments, is lost with thoughts like this. If you are not out of touch with all timeshare reality, you at least are relative to our resorts.

This is all we hear about from our boards.

[Ridewithme38 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Ridewithme38]

Much of my respect for you, based on years of accumulated comments, is lost with thoughts like this. If you are not out of touch with all timeshare reality, you at least are relative to our resorts.

This is all we hear about from our boards.

I think all he was implying is that through threats and extortion by the HOA/POA/BOD's less owners are walking away then if they weren't scared, they are now waiting until it is already too late, they are losing their job's, homes, car's and families, their lives are basicly distroyed before they give up and the threats and intimidation by the HOA/BOD/POA's finally don't matter

Got to love an HOA/POA/BOD that is more worried about the bottom line, or bringing in a rental/sales crew, then they are about peoples lives

[timeos2 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close timeos2]

I think all he was implying is that through threats and extortion by the HOA/POA/BOD's less owners are walking away then if they weren't scared, they are now waiting until it is already too late, they are losing their job's, homes, car's and families, their lives are basicly distroyed before they give up and the threats and intimidation by the HOA/BOD/POA's finally don't matter

Got to love an HOA/POA/BOD that is more worried about the bottom line, or bringing in a rental/sales crew, then they are about peoples lives

Of course your eventualities are over the top - and I assume they are only meant to make a point as those things are not part of the true results - but in fact the proper collection of fees - not the care of individual owners - IS one of the first requirements of a BOD/HOA. It is not their business to bail out owners - that is up to the owners. Their sole purpose, by law, is operate the resort and collect the fees to properly accomplish that. Any Board that ignores that is asking for trouble from a number of sources.

Jim - At proactive resorts the delinquency rate has risen by less than 1% from 2009. The average is still over 93% collected and there is an assumption of a 3-4% "churn" in ownerships as a base no matter how good the economy may be.

Yes, there is a problem with the PCC's and (usually) older owners now wanting to get out (along with some that just have tired of the ownership) but they really are a very small percentage of the overall ownership. That isn't to say there aren't resorts/Association that are facing calamity from mass defaults but they tend to reflect poor management rather than an overall trend.

Each case has to be looked at but, at least in the cases I have actual history with, massive defaults are not a crushing problem but one that has to be managed and monitored carefully. Proper collections seems to minimize the issue. Poor collection procedures can and does lead to major problems for the resort.

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

Jim - At proactive resorts the delinquency rate has risen by less than 1% from 2009. The average is still over 93% collected and there is an assumption of a 3-4% "churn" in ownerships as a base no matter how good the economy may be.

That isn't to say there aren't resorts/Association that are facing calamity from mass defaults but they tend to reflect poor management rather than an overall trend. . . . Poor collection procedures can and does lead to major problems for the resort.

Well, now I know, it is our incompetent associations who are responsible for the bad debt problems. The owners still love their timeshares, they are just taking it out on the bumbling board members.

Actually, I'm surprised at how much they are saying, since the industry has been so disinclined to reveal negativity. I have to believe it's worse than what they're saying.

We've know each other a lot of years, so, when I say we have owners walking away from their obligations at our resorts, do you accept that?

[timeos2 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close timeos2]

Well, now I know, it is our incompetent associations who are responsible for the bad debt problems. The owners still love their timeshares, they are just taking it out on the bumbling board members.

Actually, I'm surprised at how much they are saying, since the industry has been so disinclined to reveal negativity. I have to believe it's worse than what they're saying.

We've know each other a lot of years, so, when I say we have owners walking away from their obligations at our resorts, do you accept that?

Absolutely. And I can see where smaller resorts could have a big issue - if there aren't that many owners a dozen or two that want out can be big. But when there are 8000+ owners a total of 12-15 for a year even asking - not all actually defaulting -just isn't much.

I don't know how large your resorts are but that is one big factor to consider. Second is how quickly owners are locked out and the collection/foreclosure process started. I remain amazed how many get to the 11th hour - literally about to b foreclosed on - and then they pay up (including the fees, interest and penalties - in some cases nearly $2k or more)! If the account is allowed to go 6-12 months or more the collection is far less likely to succeed. That is a management issue IMO.

[Will Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Will]

At one of the resorts we own, we are being charged a $380 special assessment this year which is necessary to restore reserves and is solely attributable to deliquencies. This seems to be in addition to the $100 (15%) a year allowance that is already calculated in the budget for delinquencies as far as I can tell.

So I don't think it is accurate to say that the system of pressuring owners to pay is working. This is just the first wave of what will become a downward spiral unless some sanity is restored to the market. It is time for those who believe in the timeshare concept to be pro-active to preserve it. It can be done but will require effort. Sitting on one's hands and expecting that the threat of damaged credit and deliquency fees can solve this problem is misguided.

[Ridewithme38 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Ridewithme38]

At one of the resorts we own, we are being charged a $380 special assessment this year which is necessary to restore reserves and is solely attributable to deliquencies. This seems to be in addition to the $100 (15%) a year allowance that is already calculated in the budget for delinquencies as far as I can tell.

So I don't think it is accurate to say that the system of pressuring owners to pay is working. This is just the first wave of what will become a downward spiral unless some sanity is restored to the market. It is time for those who believe in the timeshare concept to be pro-active to preserve it. It can be done but will require effort. Sitting on one's hands and expecting that the threat of damaged credit and deliquency fees can solve this problem is misguided.

I agree with what was posted in another thread by some other person...i really do think atleast 20% of timeshares just need to be shut down...When even the most common hole in the ground place is charging 700-1000 for MF's there is something wrong with the system

[timeos2 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close timeos2]

At one of the resorts we own, we are being charged a $380 special assessment this year which is necessary to restore reserves and is solely attributable to deliquencies. This seems to be in addition to the $100 (15%) a year allowance that is already calculated in the budget for delinquencies as far as I can tell.

So I don't think it is accurate to say that the system of pressuring owners to pay is working. This is just the first wave of what will become a downward spiral unless some sanity is restored to the market. It is time for those who believe in the timeshare concept to be pro-active to preserve it. It can be done but will require effort. Sitting on one's hands and expecting that the threat of damaged credit and deliquency fees can solve this problem is misguided.

The question in a case like this is why have they got to that point? Did the huge deficit suddenly appear in the past two-three years or was it building for years prior even when the economy was booming? If 15% of owners were delinquent under the base budget AND they need another $380 to fund the operations then they have been seriously underfunding the resort for years. During the "good times" they should have had a 100% funded operations and reserve budget and maybe, at most, a 5-7% delinquency rate. That would have been on the high side.

So it isn't the current economy or a sudden shift to the ownership from paying to unpaid - it was poor collections by management for years that put the resort in peril now. You are blaming the wrong thing.

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

Now that I think about it, one of our resorts has a management company, a rental program, a daily check-in hotel-style front desk, and they have the right to rent units that fees are not paid for.

So, rent them out and pay the unpaid fee with the proceeds. Three nights of rentals would pay the fee. Only resort to legal proceedings if necessary. Avoid the angst.

There, that is an option HOAs can look at, one designed to increase income rather than expense.

[timeos2 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close timeos2]

Now that I think about it, one of our resorts has a management company, a rental program, a daily check-in hotel-style front desk, and they have the right to rent units that fees are not paid for.

So, rent them out and pay the unpaid fee with the proceeds. Three nights of rentals would pay the fee. Only resort to legal proceedings if necessary. Avoid the angst.

There, that is an option HOAs can look at, one designed to increase income rather than expense.

That is SOP but renting enough to actually cover the full fees and the usual commissions is a short term and extremely unreliable fix. If the economy goes bad like 2009-2011 then rental income can easily fall & leave more unpaid fees. Far better to rent the time while it is delinquent - the Association automatically gets that right - but also move to foreclose & get it in the hands of a new, paying owner. There always seems to be enough delinquents to meet any rental needs. Too many and it's a big problem.

[Carolinian Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Carolinian]

I agree with what was posted in another thread by some other person...i really do think atleast 20% of timeshares just need to be shut down...When even the most common hole in the ground place is charging 700-1000 for MF's there is something wrong with the system

I don't know what you are smoking as to m/f's but none of the resorts I own at, which are in three different countries has an m/f over $475, and one is GC and the other two SC. They are all member-controlled, so they do not have a developer still trying to get his fingers into the cookie jar. I suspect that is why the m/f's at the developer controlled resorts are higher.

[Carolinian Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Carolinian]

Now that I think about it, one of our resorts has a management company, a rental program, a daily check-in hotel-style front desk, and they have the right to rent units that fees are not paid for.

So, rent them out and pay the unpaid fee with the proceeds. Three nights of rentals would pay the fee. Only resort to legal proceedings if necessary. Avoid the angst.

There, that is an option HOAs can look at, one designed to increase income rather than expense.

Actually, I prefer self management to using a management company, and that can cut costs. Two of the three resorts I own at use self-management, where the HOA board hires a manager rather than contracting with a management company.

As to having a right to rent weeks where the m/f is not paid, that can be on shaky legal ground unless specifically provided for in the declaration of covenants, and even if it is, the hoops you would have to jump through under the laws of some states, including NC, to do that would make it impractical.

Also, ongoing rental programs may be incompatible with the non-profit status of HOA's. Any such program should be cleared by tax and legal experts. In some places, like the OBX, it also incurs local per unit license fees which are excessive for timeshares due to the way they are calculated.

Getting the weeks back into the hands of new own-to-use owners is a more practical and stable approach.

[Ridewithme38 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Ridewithme38]

I don't know what you are smoking as to m/f's but none of the resorts I own at, which are in three different countries has an m/f over $475, and one is GC and the other two SC. They are all member-controlled, so they do not have a developer still trying to get his fingers into the cookie jar. I suspect that is why the m/f's at the developer controlled resorts are higher.

I always seem to forget about the below mid-level places!! You're right i guess the very small places with very low demand have to keep MF's very very low to attract anyone to stay there

Sorry about that Caroline

[timeos2 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close timeos2]

I always seem to forget about the below mid-level places!! You're right i guess the very small places with very low demand have to keep MF's very very low to attract anyone to stay there

Them's fightin' words!

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

Actually, I prefer self management to using a management company, and that can cut costs. Two of the three resorts I own at use self-management, where the HOA board hires a manager rather than contracting with a management company.

As to having a right to rent weeks where the m/f is not paid, that can be on shaky legal ground unless specifically provided for in the declaration of covenants, and even if it is, the hoops you would have to jump through under the laws of some states, including NC, to do that would make it impractical.

Also, ongoing rental programs may be incompatible with the non-profit status of HOA's. Any such program should be cleared by tax and legal experts. In some places, like the OBX, it also incurs local per unit license fees which are excessive for timeshares due to the way they are calculated.

Getting the weeks back into the hands of new own-to-use owners is a more practical and stable approach.

Doesn't fit the comment quoted.