Deed-Backs

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

Deeding Back Timeshares - Timeshare Users Group Online Community Forums

[Will Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Will]

So its all been said before, its just that no one is listening. A limited number of deedbacks five years ago, and a moderate number in the ensuing years, would have averted much of the current mess by restoring a better level of market confidence. It will take more deedbacks now to accomplish this. In five more years it will take so many that it may not be possible. When you are trying to restore market confidence, it is essential to begin as early as possible. The longer you wait, the worse the problem gets, and any intervention begins to face diminishing returns. In the meantime, nothing could scream louder about the instrinsic negative worth (much worse than worthlessness) of timeshares than the refusal of the resorts themselves to accept them back for free.

[Ridewithme38 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Ridewithme38]

So its all been said before, its just that no one is listening. A limited number of deedbacks five years ago, and a moderate number in the ensuing years, would have averted much of the current mess by restoring a better level of market confidence. It will take more deedbacks now to accomplish this. In five more years it will take so many that it may not be possible. When you are trying to restore market confidence, it is essential to begin as early as possible. The longer you wait, the worse the problem gets, and any intervention begins to face diminishing returns. In the meantime, nothing could scream louder about the instrinsic negative worth (much worse than worthlessness) of timeshares than the refusal of the resorts themselves to accept them back for free.

Alot of resorts should have closed a ten years ago and have only been able to stay around BECAUSE of the lifelong contracts they have with owners....i think(if people are smart) in 20-30 years, when the baby boomers start dying off in bulk, we'll see these resorts getting hit hard with people not accepting Timeshares as inheritances, the ones that should have been closed for a decade will finally close and because of their tactics, others that maybe could have survived this will close also

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

There was a mass entrance into timesharing when Boomers came of age, so it is natural that there would be a mass exodus, or, at least, a need for one.

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

Has anyone with a ROFR company ever submitted a $1 sale for approval?

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

Here's a statement from an Association:

We do not take deed backs and try not to foreclose. Rather we get a judgment and lien homes, take paychecks, etc.

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

Here's a statement from an Association:

We do not take deed backs and try not to foreclose. Rather we get a judgment and lien homes, take paychecks, etc.

This is interesting because they make it a point to not take a week back, even by foreclosure. They force the owner to keep owning it and get their money from the owner elsewhere.

Talk about putting salt in an open wound!!!

[tonyg Goomba & Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close tonyg]

A small resort where I know the manager in 2011 introduced a deed back program where deed backs are available if there is no loan and the MFs and Taxes are current and a fee of $ 350 is paid. There was concern there might be a deluge, so the option of curtailing the program is open. So far only about a dozen units have been deeded back and a few of those were good weeks that have already been resold (resort is not active in developer sales).
So it looks like a deed-back program can work at some resorts.

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

So, the way I'm hearing it, an exit strategy is not provided because it may be detrimental to the other owners.

Some day, every owner will want to exit and would benefit from an exit strategy, so which other owners would an exit strategy be deterimental to, the imortal ones?

Or, is it a matter of timing, so that if the majority of owners wanted to exit at the same time, it would be detrimental to the majority not to have an exit strategy?

This seems so simple, it being so wrong for any industry to sell anything that the people they sell to will be stuck with it forever and forced to pay for something they do not use, that we should not have to be debating it.

Just guessing, what percent of a resort, say Orange Lake or Westgate, do you think would like to get rid of their week, right now?

[Ridewithme38 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Ridewithme38]

You know what could also be a positive change? A Required vote every 10-20 years on dissolution of the Timeshare...If the majority want to sell and are unable to, maybe this vote would give them a way out

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

Subconsciously, our foray into mortality and infirmities has prompted me to think of many of the timeshare owners I have known over the last two decades, many whom I met in cyberspace, and it has struck me just how many are already victims of mortal inevitabilities that will one day befall us all, timeshare owner or not, and how the lack of an exit strategy in that regard is extremely callous and lacking of compassion.

Most prominent would be Ray Harper, but I can think of many more. Ray and Darlene were owners of multiple weeks, at least a dozen. Ray's dementia put an end to their 26 weeks of timesharing each year, and, of course, sadly, Ray is no longer with us.

Having no practical way to liquidate their portfolio would have been strain on Darlene at a time when she did not need that.

I have assisted owners with terminal illnesses with their timeshare problem. As boomers become more and more unable to use their timeshares for these reasons, that will add (likely has already) to the glut of resales.

A forever-obligation vacation plan is ill-conceived because people are not forever.

The closer folks get to the inevitable, the more aches and pains and parts they were not born with owners accumulate, the more this will hit them.

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

Maybe "non-issue" was a bit too strong as there is no question there are owners/resorts with serious problems that involve a perceived problem with undoing a timeshare ownership. It is being fed not by actual performance but the very groups that are trying to take even more from owners with often false promises of ways out, based on extremely misleading "fact" presentations that even out do the timeshare developer pitches, that in reality are simply moving the issue to other owners and taking big money for themselves.

It seems that the call for simple solutions are also single minded proposals that are likely to have extreme but perhaps unanticipated results. They are certainly well intentioned, seem to address an issue but fall short when laced into real world context. They may not be legal, they may cause further erosion of the very large group that actually uses their purchase as intended and pay for that, and impact owners rights in an extremely negative way.

I'm all for fresh ideas and an open, vibrant resale marketplace for existing timeshares. I also think we as the owners of the very properties in question need to be proactive in finding new approaches. It seems the market has shifted from a forever ownership / single resort / trade based / fixed fee model toward one that is far more flexible and fits the more time and income restrained lifestyle of the 30-55 crowd that needs to be the primary focus of resorts. The younger crowd can't afford premium vacations yet and the older crowd has limited time & ability to utilize it. It is that middle age family type with 10-20 years of enjoyment that has traditionally been the bread & butter market for resorts. That group isn't biting on a fixed week ownership or the dwindling value of week for week trades as once appealed to us old folk.

There needs to be a model change and a new value found to attract the younger buyers / owners. I feel it will evolve rather quickly for those resorts that recognize the sea change and act to supply the product. Those that insist on the old ways being maintained & don't adapt are destined to be potential financial failures. Depending on the old ways will be the death of Boards/ Resorts / Management that refuse to adapt & change. What I don't see is a blanket OK of deed backs or a law requiring that to be any type of real answer.

Tim:

Since our years together have grown respect for you, and since I count you among those within the timeshare establishment who are actually in touch with reality, and since you have elaborated what you, the HOA, and your resort does not do for owners who want out, could you please discuss the things you, the HOA, and your resort does do to help those owners?

[timeos2 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close timeos2]

Tim:

Since our years together have grown respect for you, and since I count you among those within the timeshare establishment who are actually in touch with reality, and since you have elaborated what you, the HOA, and your resort does not do for owners who want out, could you please discuss the things you, the HOA, and your resort does do to help those owners?

We operate a free "For Sale" page on our owners web site - and get tremendous response to those ownerships that are offered with a good price. We point the potential sellers to low cost options for closing, we offer sites like this and TUG, RedWeek & others as suggested places to advertise at no or low cost. We advise against any up front fees, any "take it off your hands" or Timeshare Relief type operations that want thousands and we remind them that renting is a great option until they find a buyer. As we had over 95% fees paid in the year 2011 (vs a disastrous <47% paid in the last year of Developer controlled management) we fel we are doing OK for our owners. There is a natural 2-3% "churn" of ownership at any resort even before the recent economic woes hit and we're barely above that even now.

But it doesn't stop there. We are looking toward a time when we can offer on site sales for owners (resales) most likely by a third party as the Association is not licensed to sell. But that cannot occur until the currently exclusive rights to on site sales - still in the original developers hands - runs out (in 2017). Until then we have to be creative in finding ways to point owners to places whee they can successfully sell by themselves and not get taken by the many scams operating out there. It isn't easy.

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

Opening this thread "the new way" , I see now I did not lay this all on the HOA:

Why do you suppose timeshares, whether developers or associations or whatever, do not take weeks back (for free)?

I will admit that I was looking for someone to say because they don't want to get trampled in the Stampede.

But, since that does not seem to be the case where "resorts" do take weeks back, the question still remains unanswered. Well, other than, cuz they don't want to, or cuz they do have to, or cuz they are not obligated to. or, in the case of one of my resorts, because they are going to nail the owners through a judgement.

[rikkis_playpen Diamond Club Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close rikkis_playpen]

Ultimately, it always comes down to results.. Any resort that has a 90% or higher payment rate is obviously doing the right things and providing both quality and value to its owner base. I'd still like to see all resorts institute some type of "relinquishment" program, but I cannot argue with your success.

This is proof that a resort does not have to accept deedbacks as long as it provides viable options to those owners who want out. An association doesn't have to be directly involved with the secondary market, but does have to be a source of reliable and effective information for its owner base.

Also, something that just occurred to me.. I realize that in this specific case the association is prohibited from direct or onsite resales, but is it also prohibited from rentals? If not, then it would seem that a rental broker would be able to have an onsite presence (as long as that broker only offered rental services) and could provide another option for those owners who no longer used their ownership and could not sell.

We operate a free "For Sale" page on our owners web site - and get tremendous response to those ownerships that are offered with a good price. We point the potential sellers to low cost options for closing, we offer sites like this and TUG, RedWeek & others as suggested places to advertise at no or low cost. We advise against any up front fees, any "take it off your hands" or Timeshare Relief type operations that want thousands and we remind them that renting is a great option until they find a buyer. As we had over 95% fees paid in the year 2011 (vs a disastrous <47% paid in the last year of Developer controlled management) we fel we are doing OK for our owners. There is a natural 2-3% "churn" of ownership at any resort even before the recent economic woes hit and we're barely above that even now.

But it doesn't stop there. We are looking toward a time when we can offer on site sales for owners (resales) most likely by a third party as the Association is not licensed to sell. But that cannot occur until the currently exclusive rights to on site sales - still in the original developers hands - runs out (in 2017). Until then we have to be creative in finding ways to point owners to places whee they can successfully sell by themselves and not get taken by the many scams operating out there. It isn't easy.