Positive and Upbeat or Out of Touch With Reality?

[tonyg Goomba & Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close tonyg]

I'm an optomist. Right now a person can get for free what others paid alot of money to purchase. It can only get better for the buyer until the economy improves. The last couple of years we were at free closing to take over a ts contract. Now in some cases the sellers are paying a few years mf + all closing costs.
The economy will eventually improve and as it does people will want to travel and vacation. Resale prices for ts's will improve and smart travelers will be wanting these contracts or wanting to rent a ts.
Some people that I have met at the pools in Mexico are buying contracts that have a weeks usage system that allows them to pay future mf's to stay now. If done right your staying in a nice ocean front resort with daily maid service and 3 or 4 restaurants or bars on site.

If the game is to buy low then I think its time to buy, but buy right. I like RTU contracts that expire and Worldmark.

Mr. Bill

I always liked RTU which has a clear exit strategy. I also think now is a good time to buy, so I bought 4 weeks last year. I expect to see resale prices for anything desirable to go up this year and again next year. A lot of the people who didn't use or could no longer afford timeshares have somehow gotten out of their weeks, so those left for the most part are going to stay owners if things don't change for them.

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

I believe what allows retail sales to continue is that prospects/buyers think, "They could not say these things if it wasn't true," and they want them to be true.

Add to that a bit of naivety and trust, people who have not been scammed before, and . . .

They do not understand that they get laughed at when the weasels brag to each other about their conquests.

[chriskre Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close chriskre]

Timeshares still provide tremendous value for families as opposed to hotels and motels. Having more personal space is definitely the draw to staying in timeshares not to mention all the comforts of home. I know alot of 20 and 30somethings who are embracing the TS lifestyle. Especially in Orlando where there is a definite class distinction between the Kissimmee motels and the TS lifestyle. Yeah, people are still going to see the mouse in droves.
I don't see it dying off with the boomers who think that the concept was only for them and their needs.

Yeah the product is changing and so it should. People don't always vacation for one week at a time anymore so the full week concept may be on the decline, but I see the points concept still very appealing to the new younger generation. People are still vacationing but doing more staycations so owning points for short jaunts is more appealing to a new generation.

I think that owning to use will become more popular than owning to trade as is evidenced by all the wonderful mini-systems in place now. Honestly one can own points in a nice system like BG, Wyndham, Hilton, WM etc and never have a need for RCI or II yet get great value as I believe TS's were first intended to be used. Although I love the thrill of a great exchange and am maxxing it to my advantage, I also am aware that it can end and probably will. It's important to have alternatives when that happens if it does and be happy using my units/points. The new mini's provide that alternative.

With the new way TS's are being marketed with points being sold at full developer prices, that value is being appreciated by those retail buyers who obviously are seeing the value in the product or they wouldn't be buying. This seems to be the product for this generation. So maybe Hapimag had it right all along, they were just ahead of their time.

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

WestGate - Run as fast as you can!!!! | T.O.C. - Timeshare Owners Community

Orange Lake resort orlando Complaints, Reviews - Change rules of ownership on a yearly basis - Misleading elderly couple

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

If it is an axiom that TS provides better accomodations than traditonal lodging, and more services, which is not always the case for the former and virtually never the case for the latter, there still is the question as to how to secure TS accomodations.

1. With an initial investment and a forever commitment to escalating fees, or

2. One week at a time, with no further obligation, often for less than the annual fee.

[Hobbitess Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Hobbitess]

I think that owning to use will become more popular than owning to trade as is evidenced by all the wonderful mini-systems in place now.

Totally agree. We'd stayed in a couple of timeshares over the years while visiting relatives but never had any inclination to own or to start vacationing that way until we found out about points systems. Vacationing by the week was way too confining for us.

If it is an axiom that TS provides better accomodations than traditonal lodging, and more services

Is it an axiom that TS provides more services? I always thought the point of TSing is that they stay out of your hair. I don't really expect better accommodations either; bigger-with-a-full-kitchen is the part that excited us, although we do sometimes get better in the sense of more on-site amenities.

here still is the question as to how to secure TS accomodations.

Renting is only worth it for us if it's significantly cheaper than owning, and that has never been the case for some things and will, I believe, become less and less common in the next few years. Renting is more effort and more risk (or at least a different kind of risk); owning will always have an appeal I think.

Anticipation is another big part of the appeal, which usually means I like point systems best, because you can get maps of the resorts and floor plans for the units. I love that stuff! But some points systems, you can't see the floor plans unless you're a member. I find it easier to use my own points than to rent points from someone else. With points systems there's built-in variety. We like to hit "old favorite" vacation spots pretty regularly, so a fairly small points system will keep us happy for some time, and we would still want to go back to some of the resorts even if we ended up buying into another system for some new destinations.

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

Anticipation

Said to one who searched every day, every year, for their 2-6 weeks of timeharing a year, and compared notes with others around the world daily.

And who, even after securing those much-coveted weeks/resorts, continued searching, and switched, sometimes twice.

[Hobbitess Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Hobbitess]

And who, even after securing those much-coveted weeks/resorts, continued searching, and switched, sometimes twice.

Pffft. That's undirected longings and pursuing a dream, not anticipation based on the specifics of one particular resort.

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

Timeshare is viable for some people.

The timeshare industry has created the things that detract from it, and cause the thousands of dissatisified owners posting on the Internet.

The industry can change that.

It's not that hard. Stop saying whatever needs to be said to get the sale. Tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

Don't allow people who can't afford it to buy it (much like the home mortgage crisis), rather than the mud-on-the-wall technique now employed. If disqualified people insist on buying, make it tough to do so. Big down payment, get their own financing, etc.

Provide a resale program for owners, and, until that is up and running, disclose actual resale values during the sales presentation, providing a computer and links to Craigslist, eBay, etc.

Tell the turth about exchanging, annual fees, etc.

Let it stand on it's own merits.

Give it ten years and Internet forums can be what they were long ago, places to help each other get better exchanges, find nice resorts to own at, and so forth.

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

Pffft. That's undirected longings and pursuing a dream, not anticipation based on the specifics of one particular resort.

There were a lot of us with undirected longings, pursuing a dream, then.

Although, searching the same area, the same weeks, every day, seems directed, and the dreams got fulfilled.

[rikkis_playpen Diamond Club Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close rikkis_playpen]

This part won't happen...

Don't allow people who can't afford it to buy it (much like the home mortgage crisis), rather than the mud-on-the-wall technique now employed. If disqualified people insist on buying, make it tough to do so. Big down payment, get their own financing, etc.

You may be forgetting a big part of the business.

Most timeshare developers actually make their money by selling the bundled loans. The ability of the individual timeshare buyer to meet the obligations of the note is not really that important except as a way to increase the price and overall yield on those securities.

The industry fought very hard to defeat a bill that would have required them to actually check credit ratings..

[Hobbitess Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Hobbitess]

Although, searching the same area, the same weeks, every day, seems directed, and the dreams got fulfilled.

Point is, that approach fits renters more than owners; my approach fits owners better than renters. Meaning you're more likely to be happy with renting than I would be, while I am more likely to be happy as an owner.

[Will Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Will]

I went to the only sales presentation I have ever attended 25 years ago, and only because I was tricked into going to it. I was very turned off by the experience. I did not buy, but at the same time I was very impressed with the product and the concept of timesharing. I did buy a resale about four years later, and now own 10.

Until this week, however, I had never been to a resort that was still actively engaged in selling. I am staying at the Palm Beach Shores Resort this week, which is actively selling, and the process is an amazing thing to behold. All day long you see couple after couple being "led around." There is a buzz and a hum in the lobby. Where do the sales people find all these people? I try to listen in when I can, with a curious kind of fascination. I hear nice but somewhat naive people seeming so grateful to have a chance to talk about their grandchildren to the nice man who seems to really care. I have heard salesmen mention the 400,000 satisfied timeshare customers of the parent company. Satisfied?

The resort is very beautiful. But there are many for sale for a dollar on Ebay right now at this resort for a dollar. Sometimes they sell, but usually they do not. I don't know how much units are selling for here, but I can only guess it is $15000 or more. And at the same time units go unsold for a dollar! I know there are two different markets, but how can you really say that something is not wrong with this picture?

I understand caveat emptor. I get it. It used to apply to real estate transactions. You bought the farm, even if the seller knew the sills were rotten and the well contaminated. But that changed, and now certain disclosures are required. Would disclosures be so wrong in the timeshare market? Would ensuring the buyers have accurate information when they buy represent too much government intrusion? It seems that an important part of the sales stategy is ensuring that potential buyers are naive and ignorant. This is the problem as I see it, and appropriate disclosures would address this.

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

It seems that an important part of the sales stategy is ensuring that potential buyers are naive and ignorant. This is the problem as I see it, and appropriate disclosures would address this.

That is the purpose of the pretalk, to find out how gullible the prospect is, and find their hot buttons.

I know that because question #1 on our last Wastegate pretalk was, "How naive and gullible are you?"

My answer was, "Gullible enough to be checking into a 3-bedroom at Orange Lake Saturday, and filling in the days before with Hotwire."

[chriskre Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close chriskre]

1. With an initial investment and a forever commitment to escalating fees, or

2. One week at a time, with no further obligation, often for less than the annual fee.

With that mentality, why buy a vacation home either.

Taxes go up, maintenance has to be done on the property and insurance costs will definitely go up. Then of course you've got the price of oil and electric going up all the time. And there is no guarantee that you'd sell it for what you purchased it for in the future. Wouldn't it be cheaper to just rent someone elses home instead of taking on a second home.