The One Really Big Issue . . .

[timeos2 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close timeos2]

As far as this topic goes, it doesn't really matter which part of the industry fails in any instance.

It always has been and is today set up so that all can point the finger at others.

Agreed. But that is reality. So what can be done given those limitations? Simply saying "take them back" or "find a buyer" isn't an answer, so what is? Out of the box.

[tonyg Goomba & Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close tonyg]

I think a variety of actions are required, based on the resort in question. For some taking deed-backs and resales can work, for others some new ideas will have to be found to keep the resorts financially healthy and desirable. Big resorts in overbuilt locations will require some thinking outside the current box and resort closures for those that don't may be a good thing for those that can solve the problems.

[timeos2 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close timeos2]

I think a variety of actions are required, based on the resort in question. For some taking deed-backs and resales can work, for others some new ideas will have to be found to keep the resorts financially healthy and desireable. Big resorts in overbuilt locations will require some thinking outside the current box and resort closures for those that don't may be a good thing for those can can solve the problems.

I know that in at least one case when the current rights to sell on site expire the NEXT agreement will include the requirement that the sales group handle resales. But that can't happen for a number of years and until then the resort needs to find other ways to handle it (and I doubt that will include any offer to simply take weeks in on demand as they have no outlet for weeks other than foreclosures). They have a plan now that is working so hopefully they can hang in until the current sales rights expire.

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

At least, generally speaking, most here who have been around awhile and have the type of vested interest 20 or more years of doing something brings, seem to agree that there not being a viable exit strategy may be the achilles heel.

I remember when a topic like this would have been the furthest from our minds.

People will find discussions such as this one . . . and it is far from the only one . . . and word will continue to get around, as it has been.

That is the value of these discussions, creating awareness, and it will lead to a solution.

[Jasonb334 Member Find all posts View Profile Close Jasonb334]

I know that in at least one case when the current rights to sell on site expire the NEXT agreement will include the requirement that the sales group handle resales. But that can't happen for a number of years and until then the resort needs to find other ways to handle it (and I doubt that will include any offer to simply take weeks in on demand as they have no outlet for weeks other than foreclosures). They have a plan now that is working so hopefully they can hang in until the current sales rights expire.

Timeos2,

I am curious which resort(s) you are referring to. Several of the resorts that I know a little about (well more than a little) the developer has the rights to sell on site date coming up very soon but there is a clause in the governing documents that refers to the resort being completely "sold-out" at one time as one of the conditions. In order to avoid the rights being cancelled, the developer holds back a number of units from day 1 and "never" puts them on the market, allowing them to claim that the resort was never sold-out. Through smoke and mirrors, the developer remains a partner even when the ownership changes. It's just another way they play with the fine print and pull stunts that the average or ethical business person would not even dream of or be prosecuted.

Everyone seems to bag on the resale industry and imposing regulations, but I've yet to see where they ever put regulations on the developers that have any teeth in them.

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

Everyone seems to bag on the resale industry and imposing regulations, but I've yet to see where they ever put regulations on the developers that have any teeth in them.

Not me, so everyone is improper.

The resale scam compamnies can do what they do because the legitimate industry forces owners into a position where they are easy targets.

I recently told Pam Bondi, Florida legislators and governing agencies exactly that, that they can legislate resale companies all they want, and until the legitimate industry step up to the plate, there will continue to be resale problems.

But, hey, I know who butters the bread.

[timeos2 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close timeos2]

Timeos2,

I am curious which resort(s) you are referring to. Several of the resorts that I know a little about (well more than a little) the developer has the rights to sell on site date coming up very soon but there is a clause in the governing documents that refers to the resort being completely "sold-out" at one time as one of the conditions. In order to avoid the rights being cancelled, the developer holds back a number of units from day 1 and "never" puts them on the market, allowing them to claim that the resort was never sold-out. Through smoke and mirrors, the developer remains a partner even when the ownership changes. It's just another way they play with the fine print and pull stunts that the average or ethical business person would not even dream of or be prosecuted.

Everyone seems to bag on the resale industry and imposing regulations, but I've yet to see where they ever put regulations on the developers that have any teeth in them.

Of course that is the trick they use to stay on site indefinitely. In the case I refer to - Cypress Pointe in Orlando - the Board saw the problem many years ago and made the best deal they could to terminate the "forever" nature of the developer holding sales rights and free use of close to 1/3 of the Associations Clubhouse. The deal was 5 years of the original terms (which meant the sales space was used under an easement and the resort got no money for it except a prorated reimbursement of direct expenses) and then 5 years of rental of the space while the exclusive rights to sell continued throughout the full 10 years. So on 12/31/2017 that agreement ends and the Association will control the space and be able to set the new terms if any sales are to remain at the resort. It also terminated the easement.

As usual not a perfect resolution for either side but that's what compromise and negotiations are about. It really was the best that could be done considering that the original easement let the free use of the space and the exclusive sales rights go on forever.

[Jasonb334 Member Find all posts View Profile Close Jasonb334]

Timeos2..... thank you for your response and that is great negotiations. Glad to see that the owners knew what they were doing.

JLB..... my bad, "everyone" was not the correct word! Thanks for catching me..Lol

[Will Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Will]

The Smart Money piece on timeshares was posted on Yahoo today. It generated a large number of comments and their overall negativity toward timeshares is astounding. I think that this supports the contention that there is a major problem with the timeshare market psychology that is not going to be fixed by chasing down aging deadbeats. A significant intervention is needed by those who still believe in the timeshare model. Trapping people forever is just not a good marketing concept. It will just keep creating more and more negativity that will eventually sink the market, if it hasn't already.

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

The Smart Money piece on timeshares was posted on Yahoo today. It generated a large number of comments and their overall negativity toward timeshares is astounding. I think that this supports the contention that there is a major problem with the timeshare market psychology that is not going to be fixed by chasing down aging deadbeats. A significant intervention is needed by those who still believe in the timeshare model. Trapping people forever is just not a good marketing concept. It will just keep creating more and more negativity that will eventually sink the market, if it hasn't already.

http://www.timeshareforums.com/forum...-backs-11.html

Subconsciously, our foray into mortality and infirmities has prompted me to think of many of the timeshare owners I have known over the last two decades, many whom I met in cyberspace, and it has struck me just how many are already victims of mortal inevitabilities that will one day befall us all, timeshare owner or not, and how the lack of an exit strategy in that regard is extremely callous and lacking of compassion.

Most prominent would be Ray Harper, but I can think of many more. Ray and Darlene were owners of multiple weeks, at least a dozen. Ray's dementia put an end to their 26 weeks of timesharing each year, and, of course, sadly, Ray is no longer with us.

Having no practical way to liquidate their portfolio would have been strain on Darlene at a time when she did not need that.

I have assisted owners with terminal illnesses with their timeshare problem. As boomers become more and more unable to use their timeshares for these reasons, that will add (likely has already) to the glut of resales.

A forever-obligation vacation plan is ill-conceived because people are not forever.

The closer folks get to the inevitable, the more aches and pains and parts they were not born with owners accumulate, the more this will hit them.

If I was on an HOA, this would be an issure I would be concerned about.

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

Even the strongest of timeshare proponents say things to support the notion that the Achilles Heel of timesharing is the industry's lack of an exit strategy. It comes up in the normal flow of conversation about timesharing, such as:

That does not last long at all, and within a very few years, there are sufficient owners looking to unload things they bought in the heat of the moment but don't really want/use.

[tonyg Goomba & Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close tonyg]

That is why I believe resorts need to have an exit strategy such as a deed-back policy and an active resale program. Life changes sooner or later will make timeshare ownership no longer viable for just about everybody.

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

Yeah, that's what I've been trying to say, over wine coolers and Pong.

Love it now or not, sooner or later, everyone with a timeshare will need to get rid of it.

The industry, any and/or all of it, has the opportunity to make lemonade out of lemons.

[timeos2 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close timeos2]

Absolutely every resort needs to do all they possibly can to foster owner resales and an active marketplace for the inevitable churn of ownerships. However a deed back program vs other options may not be proper in every case for various reasons. Like most things each case (resort) needs to handle things the best way possible for the overall good of the Association and owners as a whole. While I'd like to see every resort have a way to take back weeks directly AND have a way to get those quickly into the hands of new paying owners I also understand that isn't always possible. I do expect that each resort do everything possible to create a market for resales even if they cannot, at least now, offer deed backs as a standing option. There needs to be a flexible option to all including not offering deed backs but other reasonable options for the owners that legitimately need a way to be out of what had been a wanted ownership they can no longer utilize as they once did. One size (answer) cannot and does not fit all.

[Ridewithme38 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Ridewithme38]

You know, a simple quarterly news letter to owners where owners could list their weeks for sale would solve 65% of the problem

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