The One Really Big Issue . . .

[tonyg Goomba & Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close tonyg]

Bravesfan---have you checked the classifieds---it's easy-go to the top blue navigation bar and click on website navigation and select classified system from the drop down menu.Or just click on the TS4Ms Classifieds in the middle above blue navigation bar.

[bravesfan Member Find all posts View Profile Close bravesfan]

I am aware of the resale market. I live near the resorts that I own at. There is always a sheet in the elevator and some presence on the website regarding what is for sale. In addition there is a somewhat active rental program. My resorts are all on the beach and not in smugwhump holler or whatever.

I am pretty sure I could give mine away if I chose to check out. I have only owned for a year or two so, you guys have some time on me. I bought primarily to use and most others did as well. I bought during my kids break so I am again pretty sure I could give them away which would pretty much be breaking even.

I don't think that EBY or the classifieds here are the best route as most demand is regional.

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

I am aware of the resale market. I live near the resorts that I own at. There is always a sheet in the elevator and some presence on the website regarding what is for sale. In addition there is a somewhat active rental program. My resorts are all on the beach and not in smugwhump holler or whatever.

I am pretty sure I could give mine away if I chose to check out. I have only owned for a year or two so, you guys have some time on me. I bought primarily to use and most others did as well. I bought during my kids break so I am again pretty sure I could give them away which would pretty much be breaking even.

I don't think that EBY or the classifieds here are the best route as most demand is regional.

Like I said, somewhere, some time, it is human nature to disregard problems that are not personal.

Good luck with your life, and may every day be a sunny one, unless you need some rain.

[bravesfan Member Find all posts View Profile Close bravesfan]

I don't think you need luck to be successful in life! I think that life is about choices. Some choose to wake up and write negative post after negative posts on silly message boards all day long and act very self righteous.

Others tend to be a bit more positive and enjoy the world! I am off to play a game of golf! Good luck with the posting! Thanks for watching out for me! Oh yeah I did not ask for that!

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

I don't think you need luck to be successful in life! I think that life is about choices. Some choose to wake up and write negative post after negative posts on silly message boards all day long and act very self righteous.

Others tend to be a bit more positive and enjoy the world! I am off to play a game of golf! Good luck with the posting! Thanks for watching out for me! Oh yeah I did not ask for that!

Feel more better?

What's your handicap?

[bravesfan Member Find all posts View Profile Close bravesfan]

my handicap is responding to posts that will accomplish nothing!

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

And what kind of driver?

That was a very fast round, or you musta been delayed.

[tonyg Goomba & Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close tonyg]

Some choose to wake up and write negative post after negative posts on silly message boards all day long and act very self righteous.

Very close to being an unnecessary and unwarranted attack- both on an unnamed member and possibly this site. It does make me happy that I don't play golf tho.

[bigfrank Administrator Find all posts View Profile Close bigfrank]

It does make me happy that I don't play golf tho.

but you are good at digging holes

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

I appreciate the irony of negative posts on the Internet criticizing negative posts on the Internet, and it is tempting to go down the dark dead-end alley of distraction, but the issue is more important than pettiness, so I am going to try to pull it back on topic.

Who knows, maybe someone will come up with an answer if we discuss it long enough.

Florida being in the news as a Stand Your Ground state, I'm gonna.

There is something wrong with a system that allows someone to sell something for, say, $25,000, when people they previously sold the same thing to for, say, $25,000, and it is still in like-new condition, essentially the same as it was when they bought it, and it is still fully functional, can't even get a buck for it . . . not only can't even get a buck for it, but are forced to pay someone significant amounts of money to take it off their hands . . . and the people selling these things are allowed to just look the other way, as if the people they previously sold to don't exist, as is true with the people they are selling to today, that once they get their money, it will be as if they don't exist.

Unless that is fixed, that will be it's own undoing.

JMHO, 20-plus years in the making.

[bravesfan Member Find all posts View Profile Close bravesfan]

I hate the pcc's as I think they scam the timeshare owner and eventually the hoa as well.

But, no one is forced to pay them just as no one is/was forced to buy one of these things off of ebay several years ago (raising my hand) for next to nothing knowing the obligation was forever. Sure we might have thought we could always sell thse things for a buck, but, I am sure that ten years prior people had probably paid significantly more than a buck for resale and thought they would always get that etc.

I don't understand why developers active in sales don't scoop there stuff up off of ebay. my guess is there is at least a percieved risk/liability based on what Mr. or Mrs. JLB stated above.

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

Sometimes the logical obvious is right in front of us, and we don't see it. Then, after it gestates subconsciously, it come to us.

In this thread:

http://www.timeshareforums.com/forum...h-reality.html

An Orange Lake sales exec is quoted as saying, " . . . the actual construction cost represents a mere 25%."

Assuming all other expenses are the same, just market owner resales along with new stuff, and give the owner 25%. It would not cure the misrepresentations about appreciating values which are, at the very least, implied in the sales presentation, but it would give owners a way out, and be better than paying someone to take weeks off their hands.

Sales would have the same incentive as with their new stuff.

In would also be like the very inappropriate comparison with car sales, since new car dealers take in trades, and beat the customer up on them, too.

Why do I think they don't do it? Because they do not want to be faced with their own lies, embodied in those they have sold to previously.

[Mongoose Member Find all posts View Profile Close Mongoose]

I appreciate the irony of negative posts on the Internet criticizing negative posts on the Internet, and it is tempting to go down the dark dead-end alley of distraction, but the issue is more important than pettiness, so I am going to try to pull it back on topic.

Who knows, maybe someone will come up with an answer if we discuss it long enough.

Florida being in the news as a Stand Your Ground state, I'm gonna.

There is something wrong with a system that allows someone to sell something for, say, $25,000, when people they previously sold the same thing to for, say, $25,000, and it is still in like-new condition, essentially the same as it was when they bought it, and it is still fully functional, can't even get a buck for it . . . not only can't even get a buck for it, but are forced to pay someone significant amounts of money to take it off their hands . . . and the people selling these things are allowed to just look the other way, as if the people they previously sold to don't exist, as is true with the people they are selling to today, that once they get their money, it will be as if they don't exist.

Unless that is fixed, that will be it's own undoing.

JMHO, 20-plus years in the making.

In some ways the TS purchase is more like a car than real estate. When someone buys a car and takes it off the lot, they lose 10-15% instantly. After 5 years, its down 75% with high mileage it could be down 90%.

I'm not sure what the solution is. I know people that have paid $500K for homes that are now worth $290K. At least when then sell the TS, they usually advertise them as a life long vacation purchase. I haven't heard them push it as having resale or intrinsic value.

If owners were simply able to walk away and stop paying deposits, that would screw the rest of the owners.

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

In some ways the TS purchase is more like a car than real estate. When someone buys a car and takes it off the lot, they lose 10-15% instantly. After 5 years, its down 75% with high mileage it could be down 90%.

I'm not sure what the solution is. I know people that have paid $500K for homes that are now worth $290K. At least when then sell the TS, they usually advertise them as a life long vacation purchase. I haven't heard them push it as having resale or intrinsic value.

If owners were simply able to walk away and stop paying deposits, that would screw the rest of the owners.

Like a car, except for it's not like a car. It is no worse for wear, still in like-new condition, the same model as the dealer is selling today, and the dealer takes trade ins.

&, the dealer is normally happy to see a customer he sold to before.

[Jasonb334 Member Find all posts View Profile Close Jasonb334]

Out of the box ideas that don't require forced deedbacks? How about voluntary deedback programs. These have been around for years and are completely legal. All the legalistic huffing and puffing really does not change this. And the HOA can set realistic parameters for the deedback program that will benefit everyone, including a limit on the number of deedbacks they will hold at any given time and keeping a waiting list, requiring appropriate levels of prepaid MF's as conditions to deedbacks, and using its auspices to develop a viable sales program, either in house or farmed out. Nobody anywhere is in a better position to do this than the HOA, the representative of the owners acting in the best interest of the owners.

But wait, you say that they never had to do this before and should not have to now, because they are so busy afterall? Times have changed, and the mission of the HOA must adapt to the changes or everything fails.

Sometimes it really seems like you would rather see the whole system fail rather than take the chance that one deadbeat might get away without paying his bills. There are bigger fish to fry here. What used to make sense as a stategy once does not any more, because the problem has gotten bigger. You have to look at the macro level, and fully begin to grasp that the lack of an exit is a problem for everyone, for the system as a whole and that without a viable solution the system will inevitably fail . It is really a problem without precedent, and must be resolved. All of your incessant naysaying will only perpetuate the problem and make it worse. I am sorry to have to be so frank, but right now I really believe that people like you are a big part of the problem and stand in the way of a solution. It is time for people to try to be part of the solution.

Also, on another matter, I don't know what Constitution you are reading, but in my copy the 10th Amendment has none of the language that you quote. There is a Commerce Clause, in Article I, but it has no applicability to what you are saying. It would only apply if we asked the U.S. Congress to fix the problem. That is the one idea that I don't think I have heard anyone propose. I think this foray into Constitutional Law really demonstrates that you are not a legal expert. You are obviously smart, and have a lot of experience. But it is really not appropriate to set yourself up as a legal authority for what can and cannot be done when you are not really an authority.

I was really hoping that someone was going to expand on this post by Will instead of reading through a couple pages of forum jabbing. I think JLB has hit on a very "real" topic and it really doesn't matter if he holds a timeshare that he wants to rid himself of. The reality is that he is looking at the timeshare industry as a whole and yes, it does need to change or the consumer will thumb the whole industry. The power of the internet and forums like TS4MS help to educate people before, during and after a purchase or ownership. No one dreamed that a lifetime liability would have "no" value before the end of it's useful life and you would have to keep feeding it because the piranhas never get full. It is not like a car. A car that is beyond it's useful life can be taken to the junkyard and you rid yourself of any future liability.

The timeshare industry is sinking it's own ship and I do not believe it's the minority that are unhappy with it. It's just that the minority are taking a stance to find out more about it. But the vocal minority is what keeps this topic alive and eventually that vocal minority will reach the consumer majority and I'm not sure who the end user of the timeshare will be. You can't continue to price people out of ownership and expect that there will be an endless supply of buyers. The lies and deceitful sales tactics that are being told and then posted all over the internet and warnings appear at every Google search related to timeshare ownership. Sales will not hold up and eventually their lies will be the end of their existence. When inventory levels get too high (whether it's developer or association) it will force bankruptcy, foreclosure or other means of ending the timeshare association/resort.

There needs to be change!

Thanks JLB for getting people to think out of the box and I hope some comments can be made about Will's earlier post, stay on topic and throw around some ideas or scenarios.

The only golf I will be doing is sitting on the couch watching Tiger