The One Really Big Issue . . .

[ace2000 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close ace2000]

but what basis is there for projecting 10% increases per year, unless related costs also go up this much, which means hotels and vacation home expenses also go up?

That's the million dollar question right there. The system doesn't work.

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

Yep, one of us is slow, still not sure who it is then.

Just one?

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

Now that I think about it, with $3000 in fees for something we can't use, and get rid of, I must be the slow one.

[JWC Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close JWC]

The M/F on the timeshares that I have owned have actually been very stable and the resorts are very high demand good resorts.

My 2012 M/F went up a whopping $17 to $577. I have owned it for several years. The other one I owned went up $16 total in 18 years.

[Hobbitess Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Hobbitess]

I agree.. the resorts would be much nicer and the staff much more pleasant if 100% bought into their properties for next to nothing

Why would the staff care? The only staff I deal with that gets paid out of developer sales is the sales force, which is to say, the people I want to go away. Developer sales also don't pay for maintenance or existing unit upgrades; that comes out of my MFs. Developer sales pay for the sales force and expansion; I'm opposed to the sales force and expansion doesn't matter much to me. Although if I could pay just the expansion part, I'd be fine with that.

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

Wouldn't it be nice if there was some disclosure in credit scores, so you knew in advance how much of a hit an action would cause?

Our 800 is nice, but we could probably get by with a 775.

[Ridewithme38 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Ridewithme38]

Wouldn't it be nice if there was some disclosure in credit scores, so you knew in advance how much of a hit an action would cause?

Our 800 is nice, but we could probably get by with a 775.

Be ready for a 540 after a foreclosure

[ace2000 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close ace2000]

Wouldn't it be nice if there was some disclosure in credit scores, so you knew in advance how much of a hit an action would cause?

Our 800 is nice, but we could probably get by with a 775.

You do know they don't let you add your wife's score to yours, right?

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

You do know they don't let you add your wife's score to yours, right?

I added yours to both of ours.

[bravesfan Member Find all posts View Profile Close bravesfan]

Interesting article about Orange Lake. It is quite interesting as the story is somewhat contradicting.

What JLB said about the 20k for biannual product ( i get confused is that twice a year or once every other year?) is there but, it also says their cost of sales is 55%, building cost 25% and something else is 8% leaving a whopping 12% profit.

I am no mathmatishin but, if there cost to build is 25% then their sales price for a unit that costs them $250,000 would be about $1,000,000.

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

I tried to reveal the math in Post 20:

Me: Anyway, you can use the search feature, or google it, but in a recent post I made quoting the sales exec at Orange Lake in Orlando, he is saying they will get $2,000,000 (100 EOYs @ $20,000) for something that cost $250,000 :

Them: The $39 million construction cost of the latest tower, equal to $250,000 per unit, hardly seems to concern Sutherland and other executives at Orange Lake. They're confident that the shared condos, promoted as one-week units to be used biannually at prices averaging $20,000 apiece, will sell out in short order.

Using their figures, let's work backwards:

Revenue per unit: $2,000,000

Minus 55% (marketing): ($1,100,000)

Leaves: $900,000

Less 25% (construction cost): $250,000

Leaves: $650,000

minus 8%: ($160,000)

Leaves: $490,000

Their gross profit would be 24.5%. From that they would write stuff off, then pay taxes, so 12% seems in the right ball park for net profit, or return, or whatever they want to call it.

Of course, the problem figure is the $1,100,000 marketing expense. That is the fluff that turns something that costs $250,000 to build into something that costs consumers $2,000,000.

That is what separates it from a real real estate product.
- - - - - -
You can't even begin to fathom what the entire place might sell for, if it could be sold, if anyone wanted to buy it, in today's market. But, whatever the amount would be, it would give owners pennies on the dollar.

Sound ridiculous, trying to sell off entire resorts in this market? Google Westgate, as they are, or at least have been, trying to do exactly that. Greenlefe, the dude ranch, other stuff.

[bravesfan Member Find all posts View Profile Close bravesfan]

I read your post 20 then I went and read the entire article via the link that you provided.

Something is wrong either the newspaper person misquoted the high falooting sales exec and got confused with the use. As you so clearly mention if they can sell the unit for 2,000,000 then the $250k cost per unit is about 15%.

In i believe the next paragraph they cite that Orange Lake runs the business based on a selling cost of 55%, a construction cost of 25% and etc. costs of 8% thus leaving a 12% profit.

The high falooting sales person saying they sell the product for x does not support the overall explanation of the business.

Just sayin

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

a distraction from the OP

The One Really Big Issue is that those people are only concerned about you as long as you are giving them money. When you wanna stop doing that, they don't care.

Regardless of what their costs are for what they are building and selling now, if you gave them a week back their cost for it would be zero.

And, what they sold before, for $20,000, or whatever, can't get a buck on eBay now.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from...All-Categories

http://embitca.hubpages.com/hub/timeshare-foreclosures

http://www.ripoffreport.com/real-est...ry-c-2af59.htm

http://www.ripoffreport.com/liars/or...lake-57d7d.htm

http://www.ripoffreport.com/resorts/...high-w9946.htm

[bravesfan Member Find all posts View Profile Close bravesfan]

Seems like it is only a distraction from the original post if it is someone other than you that is posting!

Surely the developers will take their product back for free! That seems like a very good model for them as opposed to paying buku bucks to build new

[Mongoose Member Find all posts View Profile Close Mongoose]

Bridge the gap...

I think we can agree that the reasons we pick a TS over a hotel are many...

If we could look at this a little differently, in that you are a fractional owner of a resort, it would be much better.

To achieve this, the industry needs a new game plan. Something like a hybrid between RCI and Orbitz, where they take in unused days/weeks and market the heck out of them, not for resale or trade but to people looking for a hotel. The TS would need to staff a Director of Sales and a small sales team focused on this "Hoteling" busienss. They could also include unsold weeks in the inventory, with the fractional owners taking a small percentage as profit or offset to MF.

As a consumer. Why pay $159 for a tired Hampton inn with 220 sq ft for a family when you could get a 480sq ft "Condo" for the same or less. Charge a $10-20 per night "Resort Fee" to cover cleaning with a max of $80 per stay to cover the added expenses.

What it comes down to, is TS need to see "Hoteling" as an ogoing revenue stream, rather than just focusing on sales. If they have 25% vacancy from owners and could sell 50% of that at an ADR of $120; based on 500 rooms (or ~182,000 room nights) that comes to $2.7M.