The One Really Big Issue . . .

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

I think we can agree that the reasons we pick a TS over a hotel are many...

If we could look at this a little differently, in that you are a fractional owner of a resort, it would be much better.

To achieve this, the industry needs a new game plan. Something like a hybrid between RCI and Orbitz, where they take in unused days/weeks and market the heck out of them, not for resale or trade but to people looking for a hotel. The TS would need to staff a Director of Sales and a small sales team focused on this "Hoteling" busienss. They could also include unsold weeks in the inventory, with the fractional owners taking a small percentage as profit or offset to MF.

As a consumer. Why pay $159 for a tired Hampton inn with 220 sq ft for a family when you could get a 480sq ft "Condo" for the same or less. Charge a $10-20 per night "Resort Fee" to cover cleaning with a max of $80 per stay to cover the added expenses.

What it comes down to, is TS need to see "Hoteling" as an ogoing revenue stream, rather than just focusing on sales. If they have 25% vacancy from owners and could sell 50% of that at an ADR of $120; based on 500 rooms (or ~182,000 room nights) that comes to $2.7M.

Be careful what you wish for.

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

I'm chuckling, because for years I have said, "When it all goes to hell in a handbasket, we will just walk away with the good memories," and now I don't think we can . . . just walk away.

[bravesfan Member Find all posts View Profile Close bravesfan]

have you tried to give the weeks back to the resort?

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

have you tried to give the weeks back to the resort?

Surely you are joking aren't you, for this and your previous post saying surely the resort will take a week back for free.

Right? Joking?

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

Seems like it is only a distraction from the original post if it is someone other than you that is posting!

Off topic is off topic is off topic, and in my few years on forums, it has always been courtesy to allow the OP to try to keep the focus, if they want.

On some forums the OP is allowed to end a thread if it gets hijacked. Yyeah, take their ball and go home.

[gandalf252002 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close gandalf252002]

Once you have been here awhile, you will understand that 80% or more resorts will not TAKE a week back, unless perphaps you offer them money for that privilage. I think what JLB is trying to get across is that resorts KNOW that what they sell for $15,000 has no value. If it did, there would be no issue in taking it back. They are selling AIR, not property.

If I pay $15,000 for 1 week and in 3 years pay it off. I no longer want it so here developer, you take it back. I paid $15,000 and MF's of $750 a year (plus any financing fees if done through them). Now you get to sell it again for $15,000. Wait, you won't take it back? How come? If it is so valuable, like your sales people say it is there should be no issue. However, it does not work that way.

I think most would agree, as do I that JLB is VERY correct in that this is probably THE major issue that needs resolution in this industry. Selling inflatedly high products is not uncommon (how much does a car REALLY cost). You pay for marketing, advertising, and salespeople salaries. If I no longer want my car, I can EASILY sell it, there is a very large market. Even if it is back to the dealer who originally sold it at a financial loss.

There IS no easy exit strategy in timeshares, and there-in lies the problem. Hence the reason more and more salespeople KNOWING this will tell you that "oh, don't worry, if you don't want it in 5 years we'll take it back". Meanwhile, that person is LONG gone when that time comes.

have you tried to give the weeks back to the resort?

[bravesfan Member Find all posts View Profile Close bravesfan]

Gandolf,

Thanks for your very clear explanation. I was confused as JLB had talked about developers and their high prices and how they could buy it off of EBAY for $1 or some other low amount.

I don't understand why companies that are active in sales would not buy the stuff off of ebay. If the resale problem is as big as JLB says the resort in Florida he mentions would be better off buying cheap on Ebay rather than paying $250k for a new condo. Am I missing something super obvious?

[Mongoose Member Find all posts View Profile Close Mongoose]

Gandolf,

Thanks for your very clear explanation. I was confused as JLB had talked about developers and their high prices and how they could buy it off of EBAY for $1 or some other low amount.

I don't understand why companies that are active in sales would not buy the stuff off of ebay. If the resale problem is as big as JLB says the resort in Florida he mentions would be better off buying cheap on Ebay rather than paying $250k for a new condo. Am I missing something super obvious?

In a way, several companies do. Marriott for example has first right of refusal. So if you are selling it for $200, they can take it first, then resell at their developer price for $20K+

[Mongoose Member Find all posts View Profile Close Mongoose]

[QUOTE=gandalf252002;489515]Once you have been here awhile, you will understand that 80% or more resorts will not TAKE a week back, unless perphaps you offer them money for that privilage. I think what JLB is trying to get across is that resorts KNOW that what they sell for $15,000 has no value. If it did, there would be no issue in taking it back. They are selling AIR, not property.


A glimmer of hope out their, I was just contacted by one of my resorts, and they have offered to sell it and pay me $2500 at closing with nothing up front. I'm tempted...

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

[QUOTE=Mongoose;489540]

Once you have been here awhile, you will understand that 80% or more resorts will not TAKE a week back, unless perphaps you offer them money for that privilage. I think what JLB is trying to get across is that resorts KNOW that what they sell for $15,000 has no value. If it did, there would be no issue in taking it back. They are selling AIR, not property.


A glimmer of hope out their, I was just contacted by one of my resorts, and they have offered to sell it and pay me $2500 at closing with nothing up front. I'm tempted...

caveat emptor

Actually, in this case caveat venditor.

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

Gandolf,

Thanks for your very clear explanation. I was confused as JLB had talked about developers and their high prices and how they could buy it off of EBAY for $1 or some other low amount.

I don't understand why companies that are active in sales would not buy the stuff off of ebay. If the resale problem is as big as JLB says the resort in Florida he mentions would be better off buying cheap on Ebay rather than paying $250k for a new condo. Am I missing something super obvious?

Just a matter of not reading exactly what was written, or not understanding it.

"And, what they sold before, for $20,000, or whatever, can't get a buck on eBay now."

I never even considered resorts buying weeks off eBay for a buck and reselling them, but, hey, why not. They don't have the conscience to where that would keep them from sleeping at night. Sell it for $15,000, take it back for free or a buck, sell it for $20,000, take it back for free or a buck . . .

The problem is not big because JLB says it is. It just is. There is no if.

The super obvious that you are missing, if there is something, is that if resorts start taking weeks back, they lose a possible maintenance fee payment, and (IMO) I believe they are afraid it may start a stampede. &, there is a difference between the people selling weeks to the public and the people collecting the maintenance fee. Once a week gets sold, it moves to the authority of the HOA, not the developer, or marketing concern.

Most resorts do not have active marketing companies and most resorts do not have ongoing control by the developer. Some, like Orange Lake and Westgate, will never be free of developer control, regardless of how they present it.

[timeos2 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close timeos2]

Remember that "resorts" and "developers" are NOT the same enmity. Unless the Developer has hung around & is still in control - ie Orange Lake or Wastegate as bad examples - the "resort" is the Association which likely sold no one anything. It exists solely to operate & maintain the property.

It seems far too many, especially when they get all excited about resales & vales or so called deedbacks (which often aren't as the resort Association never before owned them nor does it want them now) lump the two together.

I'm right with anyone that feels that a OL or Wastegate shoud be made - even forced - to take weeks back virtually on demand as they are indeed the culprits who sold what they know is a $1 unit for tens of thousands and will do it again when they get it back.

Not so for the true Associations owned & operated by the individual owners. They never sold, have no outlet or process to sell and cannot (by law) and should not - by edict or law change - ever be forced to. The documents for most wold not allow it without super vote approval by owners. It cannot be willy nilly forced on them when they never signed up for that. Your Association should be sure that you as the majority are protected from that. There is a way that the Association can be forced to take them - and the owners accept it - but if the process isn't followed it is an illegal assessment you should not agree to IMO.

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

Remember that "resorts" and "developers" are NOT the same enmity. Unless the Developer has hung around & is still in control - ie Orange Lake or Wastegate as bad examples - the "resort" is the Association which likely sold no one anything. It exists solely to operate & maintain the property.

I'm right with anyone that feels that a OL or Wastegate shoud be made - even forced - to take weeks back virtually on demand as they are indeed the culprits who sold what they know is a $1 unit for tens of thousands and will do it again when they get it back.

That should drive that point home.

As you know, and as I said just before you, I never lump the two together.

Where we diverge is what Powers and Duties the Association has and how best to use them in the best interest of the owners. If refusing to take weeks back except through expensive legal procedures is detrimental to other owners, IMO, they may be violating their docs.

That's all fully discussed in another thread.

[Will Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Will]

You have to love this typo, developers and associations not being the same enmity!

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

You have to love this typo, developers and associations not being the same enmity!

Frenemies.
- - - - - -
Frankly, the whole developer/association differentiation is the same sort of BS cop-out that RCI has used to wash their hands of things "affiliates" do.

It's a convenient way to deny culpability, so that the problem does not get resolved.

All of the industry needs to get it together.