Inside the business of timeshares - understanding their business model/processes/$$$

[frankadams Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close frankadams]

As an business consultant and ex-sales trainer I appreciated the timeshare sales process i recently went through in Las Vegas.

I became intrigued by the whole process - started doing research. Now, I am looking to understand the industry to do consulting and marketing with them - there is a lot of money to be made selling something that provides real absolute value (and relatively cost-effective value). I want to understand the behind the scenes nature of the business: sales, sales management/recruiting, compensation systems/accelerators, marketing OPC/IPC, operations, corporate, partnerships, etc.

I would appreciate talking to anyone who has worked for timeshare companies in various capacities, especially management. Thanks!

Also - books or sites or articles that describe the business side of timeshares. I have Timeshare Confidential (which is an ok description of life as sales person). Most of the books I see are about sales, not the industry.

Thank you all and hello. It's great to find this Forum.

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

Yeah, me too.

I wanna get more involved.

I wanna learn everything I can.

[philsfan Administrator Find all posts View Profile Close philsfan]

Frank, what you call 'great fun' in your other post was only great fun because you knew what was happening and I am guessing you didn't fall for it. You didn't pay far more than something was worth so you aren't stuck with a large bill with no hope for recouping anything you spent. Stick around, find out all you can about the experience of timesharing. Then decide if you are still excited about it.

[frankadams Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close frankadams]

Frank, what you call 'great fun' in your other post was only great fun because you knew what was happening <snip> Stick around, find out all you can about the experience of timesharing. Then decide if you are still excited about it.

Hmmmm... I hear an implication that timeshares are bad. That brings up a good point/question. I have read many posts about how people use their timeshares well. Are there any threads on ethics/evil/good of timeshares? Is there a consensus of some type on this forum that people ought to avoid them? Or that the businesses are bad in some way?

I have been working under the assumption that people pay top dollar at resorts, while smart consumers buy resales from honest brokers (a google search led me to a post from BB that brought me here) - but that in either case, timeshares are a legitimate vacation strategy. Perhaps they are like buying a luxury brand - sometimes you overpay . And, once you learn the basics, you get a good vacation for a less than hotel price. Am I mistaken? Life is too short and precious to invest mine in something I will regret.

[easyrider Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close easyrider]

Frank Adams, your absolutely right that TS vacations are a great product but the flaw in the design is there is no way out of the contract. I would bet that if the developers would take back unwanted ts contracts the resale prices would increase to the point that the developers could be the only ones selling the better product by adding incentives. As it is now, a dollar on ebay will often purchase the exact same product the developer is selling for $12,000 or more.

[philsfan Administrator Find all posts View Profile Close philsfan]

Hmmmm... I hear an implication that timeshares are bad. That brings up a good point/question. I have read many posts about how people use their timeshares well. Are there any threads on ethics/evil/good of timeshares? Is there a consensus of some type on this forum that people ought to avoid them? Or that the businesses are bad in some way?

I have been working under the assumption that people pay top dollar at resorts, while smart consumers buy resales from honest brokers (a google search led me to a post from BB that brought me here) - but that in either case, timeshares are a legitimate vacation strategy. Perhaps they are like buying a luxury brand - sometimes you overpay . And, once you learn the basics, you get a good vacation for a less than hotel price. Am I mistaken? Life is too short and precious to invest mine in something I will regret.

Timeshares are not bad but there are plenty of places that will gouge people. There are plenty of threads about that. There's a whole forum about horror stories.

You started your thread talking about getting into Consulting and marketing timeshares not about buying and using. Those are two very different discussions.

[frankadams Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close frankadams]

Consulting and marketing timeshares not about buying and using. Those are two very different discussions.

True. My apologies. I will look for other threads for good/bad. Back to "how does the business side work?" :-)

[ronparise Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close ronparise]

The little bit I know about how the business works is from reading transcripts of Wyndham Worldwide's quarterly earnings calls... I may be off a little with the numbers but I think Im close

Wyndham builds buys or otherwise gets control of condos in resort areas, converts them to a timeshare form of ownershio, marks them up, markets the hell out of them, and sells them to the end users. often times providing the financing. And they retain the management contract. Profit flows from the mark up, the financing fees and the ongoing management.

Wyndhams "formula" is 20% development cost, 60% marketing and commission cost, 20% profit. New buyers are often surprised to learn that what they just paid $20000 for is worth at best $4000 the minute the rescission period is over. And because there is no effective and efficient resale market place, probably less than that.

So the question is, "How can they do that?" What Wyndham does is to add incentives of dubious value to differentiate their "new" product from the "used" product available on ebay. For example VIP benefits are available when you buy from Wyndham, but they die upon transfer. And then there is the high pressure sales process

To my way of thinking there are three fatal flaws in the system 1) this stuff is forever, and 2) there is no efficient and effective resale market place where a guy can sell out and recover even the 20% intrinsic value in the bricks and morter. 3) 60% marketing cost is too much. There is something wrong when it takes that much to get someone in the sales room and move them to a sale. Once the developer sells out a resort, there is nothing there to prop up value, and the resale value drops to nothing


So where do I think a consultant can do some good and make some money/
1) help someone develop a centralized resale market place...
2) help developers develop sales incentives that have real value,
3) help developers figure out a way to reduce that 60% marketing cost
4) help the HOA's and developers if they are still involved, buy back and resell their own product.

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

frankadams frankadams

15, 20 years ago, you would not be as off-base as you are today.

Easyrider is not wrong.

Some here on this forum, and other forums like Redweek, and what's-it's-name, may still be reveling in their exhilaration, as I/we once were, but all Internet timeshare forums today are more and more reflecting the consensus of the general population. Many who were once prolific and prominent on these forums no longer sing their praise.

Of course, you would not know that without being involved with them for the last 15 years or so.

That's not saying there are not those who love timesharing, and they, of course, are most of the people posting on the forums. Most people don't spend time on things they do not like

You appear to not be reading much, or are reading just what you want to be.

I/we have been timesharing for 25 years, more than 140 exchanges, and I am still close to timeshare people almost every day.

It's way-too-easy today to have the milk without having to buy the cow, and that began about 12-15 years ago, when I would be talking to other guests in the hot tub, and they were not owners. Then, add to that the no exit strategy, the most serious flaw in the system, and you have a really, really, really serious problem. Those wanting out will get out one way or another, eventually, and those not wanting out will face the consequences . . . and are.

When the industry does not help those wanting out, so that weeks are given away, free, that dilutes the quality of the owner base. If the resort took them back, they could have a say in who they go to. Even unproductive weeks may be less costly to a resort than a poor-quality owner base.

http://www.timeshareforums.com/forum...ght=tourniquet

https://www.google.com/#q=timeshare+problems

[ace2000 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close ace2000]

So where do I think a consultant can do some good and make some money/
1) help someone develop a centralized resale market place...
2) help developers develop sales incentives that have real value,
3) help developers figure out a way to reduce that 60% marketing cost
4) help the HOA's and developers if they are still involved, buy back and resell their own product.

Number 4 is the only option that has even a remote possibility of developing in the next 5 -10 years. Agree?

I think there may be some opportunity there, however, not a ton.

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

Number 4 is the only option that has even a remote possibility of developing in the next 5 -10 years. Agree?

I think there may be some opportunity there, however, not a ton.

Yeah, only someone where pot is legal, and they partake regularly, would consider one of the first three, and four is the only one that really matters.

How anyone can participate in and profit from the traditional marketing system, selling something for thousands of dollars that can't even be given away for free, and be proud of it, and be able to sleep at night, and be considerate legitimate, is laughable. But no one who matters is doing anything about it, yet, in the US. & it is a fact of daily life where I'm at.

Foreign countries, however, are way ahead, and are legislating for things like deedbacks in their consumer protection efforts. There are copious discussions on this forum about stuff like that.