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Jya-Ning · 08-05-2006, 12:10 PM

If thinking of exit possibility, then one probably will buy resell. Assume what cost to buy is equal to what can get when sell, and assume the same property is now 10,000 in resell. So opportunatity cost is 600, MF is 600, thus 1200 per week. Of course, if you use FF, then the cost probably is 3000 if you can wait for a deal, so 900 is the cost per week stay. And that is for 2 BR internal exchange. 32 is not include tax. Once include, it probably is 36 or 37. Two BD is 72, 7 days is 500 in 2star hotel vs 900 in prime week Cypress Palm if you don't know there is a RCI exchange.

On the other hand, most people buy retail probably did not think about exit at 10 year. So they probably will hold it for live. Assume 30 year use, that is 2,600 per week, or 350 before tax hotel room. I guess if you can find resell worth 10,000, the room probably are as good as those 350 per night's hotel room. Very very close.

Of course, if you are willing to sit over the TS sale's pitch, I think you can find 5 day 4 night deal with some cuise like 3 day plus 2 Disney pass with 99 or 299 if you call in the 1st 100 people something like that. I have no idea why in the world in this case a TS can survive.

Jya-Ning

JLB · 08-05-2006, 12:46 PM

In every pitch I have attended the idea of locking in the cost of vacations to protect yourself against the ever-increasing costs of hotel and motels and, now, condos comparable to timeshares, has been part of the picture that gets painted.

For the most part, the opposite has been true. The Internet has brought substantial discounts to lodging while many timeshare resorts resort to their owners as their cash-cow, with various plans to keep it flowing.

There seems to be a lot of grasping at straws in the timeshare industry right now, some disarray.

ArtsieAng · 08-05-2006, 02:46 PM

My husband and I purchased our first two timeshares directly from Marriott. At the time, we were unaware of the tremendous savings being offered in the resale market.

We bought our third timeshare on ebay, and probably would only buy resale at this point, unless a tremendous bonus of some kind was being offered.

Having said that, I have to say that we never looked at the financial ramifications of buying or owning a timeshare. We bought them simply because we wanted to do so. Even today, we do not compare the cost of hotels, or renting verses owning.

Buying a timeshare to us was like buying a luxury car, a plasma TV, or some other extravagant item you really do not need to own.....We like them, and they ensure our family quite a few very nice vacations a year. In fact, more vacations then we able to take....but, that's another story......

We are able to invite friends and family on vacation with us.....something we would not likely do if we were renting. Hell, we even give weeks away, and that feels good too.

Perhaps in the end, it cost more than other types of vacationing, to us, it is worth more.

If we had to look at the bottom line cost of all the things in this world that bring us pleasure. We would probably buy nothing, do very little, and go nowhere......JMHO

tonyg · 08-05-2006, 04:20 PM

Timesharing rarely makes economic sense without hari-kari accounting. The key downside really is "LOCKED IN COST". You buy it and you pay every year, usually with a noticeable increase. In the meantime hotel rates go up and sometimes down (as in southern Florida right now). You pay whether you go or not and if you exchange you pay a bit more- again whether you go or not. A case can be made for timeshares to be a liability. I like to tell the salespeople, "well if I can make a fortune renting this timeshare you want me to buy, why aren't you buying them all and becoming a mult-millionaire".

Carol C · 08-05-2006, 04:30 PM

Jim when I saw a posting on TUG recently by someone who paid $50K for a timeshare my heart just about broke. I bought my first two from developers and paid too much...which at the time was $8600 and $5200 respectively. I can't imagine signing on the old dotted to pay 50 smackeroos for a t/s.

riverdees05 · 08-05-2006, 05:01 PM

Inflation

If you purchased your first timeshare from the developer in 1985 for $7,000, that would be like buying it today for $12,422.63.

What cost $7000 in 1985 would cost $12422.63 in 2005.
Also, if you were to buy exactly the same products in 2005 and 1985,
they would cost you $7000 and $3944.41 respectively.

The Inflation Calculator

http://www.westegg.com/inflation/

ArtsieAng · 08-05-2006, 06:06 PM

As I said in my previous post, I really haven't done the financial comparisons, but this thread, along with a few others has got me thinking.

I used one of my timeshare, and one year's worth of exchanges, and AC for my figures.

Cost of timeshare.....$24,000

This is what I paid in one year.......

Cost of yearly expenses:

Cost of maintenance.....$950.00
Cost of II.....$84.00
Bogus Disney charge for AC.......$99
Exchange fee for AC......$249.00
Exchange fee......$89.00
Lock-off fee......$99.0

Total cost......$1,570.00

This is what I got in one year.......

AC.....Boardwalk, 1 bedroom, Disney's cost......$3,150.00
Home Resort Aruba Surf, 1 bedroom Marriott's cost....$3,500.00
Lock-off exchange......Marriott Fairway villas, Marriott's cost.....$3,325.00

I didn't even add tax to the above figures.

Total cost if renting direct.......$9,975.00

$9,975.00 minus my expenses of $1,570.00 = $8,405.00

Cost of Timeshare $24,000.00 - $8,405.00...I would make my money back in 3 years.

If I were to rent the same things direct from owners it would cost me about half for the two Marriott's but more for the Disney.....You could say I would make my money back in under 6 years.

I think I figured that out correctly, and it's not so bad.

Edited to add: I forgot to add the incentive points of 190,000 points. That would equal another nice vacation.

lawren2 · 08-05-2006, 06:48 PM

Angela doesn't your purchase feel even better now? But you also must factor in the up-front money that you spent for your purchase, spread over the years you have owned it divided by the exchanges per year you get from it to get your "true" costs.

We always figure on what it would cost us to just rent as opposed to upfront purchase costs ( resale for us, all 3 weeks cost less than $5k ), exchange and membership fees. It brings home the value of owning timeshares for us. The longer we own them the less our average vacation costs us. The week we used for Brigantine exchange cost $1,100 to purchase. We've owned it for 8 years now so in addition to exchange, MF, membership fees we added approx $140. There aren't any NJ Shore, directly on the beach, one bedroom hotels with a kitchen for breakfasts and lunches that I can find that cost $100/night.

This is the closest comprable I can find:
Brigantine South End Steps to the Beach
Location: 3500 Ocean Ave, Unit1, Brigantine (map)
Position: Beach Block
Bedrooms: 1
Bathrooms: 1
Max. Occupancy: 4
Rental Rate: $900 / week
Monthly Rate: $3,400 / mo
Seasonal Rate: $9,600
Listing ID: 1233

So our little timeshare saved us at least $200 that week IF I could get that week in that rental. Generally it saves us more but I don't use rack rates for my figures in most instances.

Next year it will cost even less

You are lucky in that what you bought from the developer retains it's value and gives you upscale accomodations that are at a premium cost even off the rack.

The problem arises when people buy from a developer at a high cost at a place in Orlando, etc that is not a Marriott or a Hilton etc. They will never realize a savings on their vacation or get decent exchanges. When they go to resell they will be lucky to get a dime on the dollar.

ArtsieAng · 08-05-2006, 07:59 PM

lawren....didn't I do that?

I paid $24,000.

It cost me $1,570.00 a year in expenses.

I got $9,975.00 minus the $1,570.00 = $8,405.00

$24,000.00 divided by $8,405.00 = 3 years for me to break even.

Did I do something wrong......

lawren2 · 08-05-2006, 08:10 PM

Originally posted by ArtsieAng

lawren....didn't I do that?

I paid $24,000.

It cost me $1,570.00 a year in expenses.

I got $9,975.00 minus the $1,570.00 = $8,405.00

$24,000.00 divided by $8,405.00 = 3 years for me to break even.

Did I do something wrong......

Nope. You did ut right I just missed it trying to do 3 things at once. I better watch out this hasn't been a good weekend for me so far.

JudyS · 08-05-2006, 10:22 PM

Originally posted by tonyg

.... I like to tell the salespeople, "well if I can make a fortune renting this timeshare you want me to buy, why aren't you buying them all and becoming a mult-millionaire".

Oh, I like that line! I'll have to try using it! Of course, they'll probably say they are too poor to buy a week at the timeshare in the first place. Then, maybe I'll suggest that they look for one resale on eBay.

I feel that I've made out like a bandit on my timeshares. Of course, I bought all six of them resale.

rod · 08-05-2006, 11:45 PM

The numbers I am using are real; the reason that I use RCI for my example is that I actually have the numbers, and the inflation and S&P 500 numbers are available to anyone who wants to look for them. I did make up the timeshare numbers (price, maintenance fees), but they are near the expected values for a well-run timeshare. You might ask why the maintenance fees increase at 5% per year, while inflation is only 2.5% per year; the answer, in one word, is insurance (property, liability, and employee healthcare).

I must admit that the numbers suprised me; much worse than I had expected, even though I knew they would not very good.

Let us suppose John Doe purchases a timeshare from a developer for $15,000 in December of 1995.

Now let us assume that the maintenance fee for 1996 was $290, and that the maintenance fee increased by 5% every year, so that the 2005 maintenance fee was $450. The total of these maintenance fees is $3648 for 1996 through 2005.

In 1996, it cost $74 per year to belong to RCI, and the domestic exchange fee was $9; in 2005, the numbers were $89 and $149. Let us assume that John stayed at his home resort every other year and exchanged every other year; during the years 1996
through 2005 he paid $825 to belong to RCI and $633 in exchange fees.

The average annual increase in inflation between December, 1995, and January, 2006, is 2.5%. A 1995 dollar has the buying power of $1.25 in 2006 dollars, and a 2001 dollar has the buying power of $1.12 in 2006 dollars. The effect of inflation will be calculated by multiplying the purchase price by 1.25 and the fees by 1.12, to obtain a total in 2006 dollars.

Code:

[FONT="Courier New"]                             TABLE 1

                                  ignore      include
                                 inflation   inflation
           Purchase Timeshare     $15,000     $18,750
           Maintenance Fees       $ 3,648     $ 4,086
           RCI Membership Fees    $   825     $   924
           RCI Exchange Fees      $   633     $   709
                      SUBTOTAL    $20,106     $24,469
           Resale Value           $ 3,750     $ 3,750
                         TOTAL    $16,356     $20,719[/FONT]

So, John's one-week vacations as a timeshare owner for these 10 years has cost him (in 2006 dollars) $20,719, an average of $2,072 per year, for lodging.

So far I have assumed that John paid cash and I have ignored "lost opportunity". Since these two tend to be mutually exclusive, I will treat them separately.

If John was not able to pay cash, and he probably wasn't, he would have had to borrow; for a timeshare, the typical loan would have been for 7 years and the interest rate would have been 12% or more. Assuming 12% interest, he would have made 84 payments of $265, for a total of $22,260.

Again, the average annual increase in inflation between December, 1995, and January, 2006, is 2.5%. A 1999 dollar has the buying power of $1.16 in 2006 dollars, and a 2001 dollar has the buying power of $1.12 in 2006 dollars. The effect of inflation will be
calculated by multiplying the purchase price by 1.16 and the fees by 1.12, to obtain a total in 2006 dollars.

Code:

[FONT="Courier New"]                             TABLE 2

                                  ignore      include
                                 inflation   inflation
           Purchase Timeshare     $22,260     $25,822
           Maintenance Fees       $ 3,648     $ 4,086
           RCI Membership Fees    $   825     $   924
           RCI Exchange Fees      $   633     $   709
                      SUBTOTAL    $27,366     $31,541
           Resale Value           $ 3,750     $ 3,750
                         TOTAL    $23,616     $27,791[/FONT]

So, John's one-week vacations as a timeshare owner for these 10 years has cost him (in 2006 dollars) $27,791, an average of $2,779 per year, for lodging.

Over the past 10 years, the S&P 500 Index has grown at an average annual rate of just over 8.3%, and the S&P 500 Index mutual funds have grown at an average annual rate of approximately 8.25%. So if John, instead of spending it to buy a timeshare, had invested his $15,000 cash in one of these funds and just let it ride, he would have had $33,915 on January 1, 2006. In other words, he missed out on the $18,915 profit he could have made if he had not bought the timeshare.

Code:

[FONT="Courier New"]                             TABLE 3

                                  ignore      include
                                 inflation   inflation
           Purchase Timeshare     $15,000     $18,750
           Maintenance Fees       $ 3,648     $ 4,086
           RCI Membership Fees    $   825     $   924
           RCI Exchange Fees      $   633     $   709
           Lost Opportunity       $18,915     $15,165
                      SUBTOTAL    $27,366     $39,634
           Resale Value           $ 3,750     $ 3,750
                         TOTAL    $23,616     $35,884[/FONT]

So, John's one-week vacations as a timeshare owner for these 10 years has cost him (in 2006 dollars) $35,884, an average of $3,588 per year, for lodging.

I performed the analysis on each of the timeshares I own, determining the average cost per week in 2006 dollars. I then determined the cost to spend that same week of 2006 in a nearby motel. I determined the cost to stay in a Quality Inn in a room that would sleep the same number as the timeshare; if a suite was available at the motel, it was chosen. I have included the rack rate and the rate I would receive with my AAA discount, and the motel rates do include the local taxes.

Code:

[FONT="Courier New"]             TIMESHARE               QUALITY SUITES (incl tax) 
           
   RESORT       OWNED     WEEK           RACK         AAA
   Resort #1    17 yr   $ 734.35       $ 614.55     $ 553.09
   Resort #2    17 yr   $ 991.49       $1227.22     $1104.49
   Resort #3     6 yr   $ 943.24       $ 793.35     $ 714.01
   Resort #4     2 yr   $ 875.83       $1036.41     $ 932.77
   Resort #5     1 yr   $1518.61       $ 799.12     $ 719.21[/FONT]

JLB · 08-06-2006, 12:47 PM

I just love this topic.

It always seems to go this way.

I especially love the locking in part, when I can pull out 15 years of annual fee bills and show how locked in we were/are.

Another thing that usually sets some people off is when I say something like, "And then there are the folks who simply do not like timesharing because when they go on vacation they want to be pampered. They don't want to have to make their own beds, vacuum their own carpet, take out their own trash, cook their own food, wash and dry their own towels if they want fresh ones every day, clean their own toilets . . . "

They go on vacation to get away from that for a week. They don't want an apartment they have to take care for the week.

michaelsmalley · 08-06-2006, 06:49 PM

How can it get any cheaper?

Maybe I don't understand timeshares but when we can travel for "next to nothing" it works for me. Fortunately, I bought my first timeshare resale on ebay, thanks to various BB's. I bought a RCI points unit and have 3 grown children with a truck load of grandkids. My TS cost me $585.00 (including closing) and the MF are $500. For that I get 42,000 points. So far, we have used only the 8,000 point exchanges so we get 5 weeks a year for $149.00 per week. Here's how it works for me per year:

$ 50.00 Ownership (for 10 years)
$500.00 Annual MF
$ 99.00 RCI membership fee
$745.00 Exchange fees for 5 exchanges (no GC's because they are on the account

$1,394.00 Total cost for 35 nights

$39.83 per night for a 2 bedroom and sometimes a 3 that will handle 6 or 8 people. My middle son has 5 kids and they have 'made due' with a 1 bedroom once but usually try for a 2 bedroom.

For that price you can't even get a motel 6, let alone a kitchen (try feeding 5 kids at a restrauant), pool, and all the other extras that almost every TS has. I only wish we had discovered TS's many years ago.

Mike S.

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