Timeshare Relief is defending their company on TUG.

[4ARedOctober Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close 4ARedOctober]

Thanks for keeping up on these slimebags at Timeshare relief et al. I was really surprised they got as far as they did on TUG. In fact I was amazed. Keep up the good fight. Let us know what we can do to help.

[Spence Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Spence]

Cindy,

You were the one to first find out about these people. You took a lot of heat for it because these guys are clever in trying to seem reasonable. But, you stuck to your guns. Thank you.

Spence is still playing Switzerland on them. I hope these most recent engagements helps change his mind. I know he went to one of their pitches. But, didn't he say that they knew he was coming and that he was a timeshare expert? How easy would that be to cater the pitch to him?

Don't consider me a smart sleuth or anything. This Jimel character suggested the exact method for outing them. He said he did a Google search and found us here. I did the Google search he claims to have made and found the smoking gun. This guy is as dumb as Scott Peterson. He gave us the exact information we needed to out him.

I don't agree with their tactics and I believe all those posts are shills. Why they bother, I don't know, anyone literate enough to find TUG or TS4Ms are not the people they're looking for anyway! They have a canned presentation that does not say that your TS is worthless, they just illustrate all the ongoing costs that is down the drain for people that aren't making full use of their TS. They definitely did not tailor a presentation for Spence.

[BocaBum99 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close BocaBum99]

I don't agree with their tactics and I believe all those posts are shills. Why they bother, I don't know, anyone literate enough to find TUG or TS4Ms are not the people they're looking for anyway! They have a canned presentation that does not say that your TS is worthless, they just illustrate all the ongoing costs that is down the drain for people that aren't making full use of their TS. They definitely did not tailor a presentation for Spence.

Thanks for the clarification Spence. You and I are alike in that we simply call them like we see them. Good or bad.

So, morally and ethically, we can compare them to resort developers. They tell half truths in order to make their business work. That isn't that much diffferent than most businesses. If all businesses told 100% of what they know, they wouldn't get all the business they get.

I do believe that their business model is wrong. Shilliing like they do shows that they are not totally ethical businesses.

The best way to stop these businesses is to create superior ones. Resort developers are in part responsible since they don't want timeshare owners educated. If they were, these would be more difficult to pursue.

[tonyg Goomba & Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close tonyg]

The IP for HChavez is the same one used by 2 (shill) posters on TUG, so I must say that Boca spotted that con pretty well.

[BocaBum99 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close BocaBum99]

The IP for HChavez is the same one used by 2 (shill) posters on TUG, so I must say that Boca spotted that con pretty well.

Tony,

When I was a naive and trusting Californian, I gave everyone the benefit of the doubt. I would be taken to the cleaners often because of it. It took me 14 years in New Jersey and 8 years in Boca to learn to be street smart. Now, it's Trust, but verified as Reagan once said.

[Dave M Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Dave M]

Arrggghhh!!!

Excerpt from a letter to the editor in the new issue of Timesharing Today:

.... Our BBB record is spectacular and we are very proud of our company. We are not a listing company. We get people out of timeshares that they are not using or do not want to own anymore.

Cindy Martin and David MacMillan,
Timeshare Relief Inc., Torrance, CA

Fortunately, that letter is more than offset by a good 2-page article entitled, "Avoid the Sharks!" The article refers to the Timeshare Relief business model (in the first paragraph) as something to avoid.

[Spence Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Spence]

So, morally and ethically, we can compare them to resort developers. They tell half truths in order to make their business work. That isn't that much diffferent than most businesses. If all businesses told 100% of what they know, they wouldn't get all the business they get.

I do believe that their business model is wrong. Shilliing like they do shows that they are not totally ethical businesses.

The best way to stop these businesses is to create superior ones. Resort developers are in part responsible since they don't want timeshare owners educated. If they were, these would be more difficult to pursue.

I agree. Instead of shilling, Cindy and David should post as Cindy and David with the same sort of information they provided in whatever Letter to the Editor to TST.

[4ARedOctober Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close 4ARedOctober]

Naive and trusting is not limited or restricted to California...nor is everyone there that way. It has always been trust but verify here and I am native Californian.

Tony,

When I was a naive and trusting Californian, I gave everyone the benefit of the doubt. I would be taken to the cleaners often because of it. It took me 14 years in New Jersey and 8 years in Boca to learn to be street smart. Now, it's Trust, but verified as Reagan once said.

[taffy19 Gold Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close taffy19]

Emmy got the impression that they were saying timeshare was a terrible mistake that they will correct for $3,495.

Cindy, what I remember most and what I posted several times already is that they were putting fear in the mind of the older folks that were there that afternoon. Instead of leaving their heirs with an asset, they would leave them with a liability because timeshares are so hard to sell and the children may not even want them or use them but they still have to pay the maintenance fees. These people most likely had tried to sell their timeshare already but weren't successful so they believe what they tell them at these presentations.

Since I was a TUGger already, I knew more than anyone there and I asked him some tough questions and contradicted him too in what he said because I knew that it wasn't true so nobody took his bait that afternoon. I went mainly to find out what they had to offer as I was curious. I would go again to one of these postcard companies but my DH doesn't want to waste his time.

Yesterday, I had to go through our timeshare papers to look something up and I found the business card again with the name of the person who gave the presentation and the company he was involved with. His name was Kenneth LaBossiere from Time-Share Collectors so it wasn't the company that is mentioned here. I googled for this company and they are no longer around. I found this write-up about them that was posted about a year ago and it ties many of these companies together but not this one, if I read it correctly.

It must be a very lucrative business to go into with other people's money so how can you lose but where is your conscious by taking advantage of so many ignorant people who could do it themselves if you would tell them how. This is why these forums are so helpful as TUG and TS4MS both are here to educate timeshare buyers and sellers too!

Timesharing can be such a positive experience for a family if people knew how to buy and sell without being ripped off but we need developers too who are building more resorts.

All they need to do is market it in a different way and that will have to come when more people get Internet savvy and know how to search for everything they want to buy. If you can buy a car from the Internet why not a timeshare too? All what the developer has to do is educate them and offer them a cheap travel package to see their resort instead of giving freebies out which is a hit and miss approach and makes it expensive for everyone, who buys from the developer, and gives the industry such a bad name too. JMHO.

[taffy19 Gold Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close taffy19]

Spence, look at their postcard and their website. There are subtle statements about timeshare not being "the slice of paradise you thought it would be," and many others. At least they changed the horrid pictures of the ugly people that were on their site. That was also very negative. They work hard to discourage people from their timeshare ownerships. The postcard is a very negative piece of mail. Look at it compared to any other piece of mail you get.

How do we know that this new person is not another one of the company's plants, posting about the company in a positive way? Anyone doing a Google search can come up with Timeshare Relief and be turned off by this company because of the negatives we have posted about THEM! Plus, we are working against them in that we tell people that timeshare is pretty great.

Again I will ask, why post on this thread and look for information on the company in question after the deed is done. Forget the pun! Why seek out this board to convince us that you made the best decision for your timeshare. I just think you are nuts! Why come here, where all of us love timeshare and what it does for us? You appeared when the thread was brought back to life after being done for a while. How odd.

The motive here is for these people is to post positive information on their company so that when possible "customers" find this thread on a Google search, they ill find some good information along with the bad. It is obvious to me that this person is probably of the same bunch, no offense intended if you really are being honest. If you really thought this was your only way out of your timeshare, then you didn't give it enough of a chance. What resort was it? What were your maintenance fees? What season? Never any specifics, just a bunch of negative information about a supposed bad experience.

But IT IS ALL BAD! THIS COMPANY IS BAD NEWS. GET RID OF YOUR TIMESHARE YOURSELF! TRY EVERY MEANS POSSIBLE AND DO NOT PAY $3,495 TO THESE GUYS! Call your resort, contact the HOA board, advertise on the good resale sites, but don't pay these guys! You can do a lot of advertising for $3,495.

Even though Spence feels that a bad timeshare is just that, I believe that any timeshare, no matter how blue or green it is will trade to Orlando (summer as well) and will get you to Hawaii at the last minute.

No kidding, no lies, nothing for me to gain by saying it. I can take a blue week and pull a Gold Crown Hawaii resort tonight for this month, whale watching season. I pull Sunterra Poipu Point and Sunterra Kaanapali two or three times a week with a blue trader. Airfare is cheaper from Denver for last-minute travel, too. So I think people are nuts who think blue weeks are garbage because they do have value. Our blue week that Kimeul uses just pulled a three-bedroom Hilton Grand Vacation Club Seaworld for September 23rd. Yes, that is off season, but that unit is bigger than our unit and it is a HILTON. And it is when he and his college friends wanted to go. There is value with any timeshare.

I am going to start taking advantage of the system and pull those last-minute Hawaii weeks with a timeshare that costs $212 in maintenance fees. I just inquired on a purchase of another BLUE week with those low fees. I am glad to buy a week that will get us a Sunterra or PAHIO for that price, even at the last minute.

I LOVE TIMESHARE. If this person is going to come back and argue, then you will know the truth of the motive.

Cindy, somehow I missed this post earlier and what a great post it is. How wonderful to read that blue weeks have value too but it takes time and effort and some Yankee ingenuity to use them to your fullest advantage. You know how to do it.

You should write a book about it!

[shopgirl Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close shopgirl]

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthr...ple#post252322

I didn't mean to double post here. I actually hit the enter key with the CTRL+V by accident.

I wanted you to look at post 12 of this thread. This company watches TUG and 4MS very closely because I posted on December 1st at how ugly the people on their website were, but now their site has changed considerably, less than 5 weeks later. I have watched that site for over a year and saw those awful pictures. Talk about negative. They are all about negative. How else can you convince people to pay $3,495 to take their timeshare week?

The thing that bothers me most, and will always bother me, is that this company knows that the people who are going to buy their pitch are the same ones who were taken in by the developer in the first place. They figure once a sucker, always a sucker, so these slimy people are worse than the sales sleazes because they are taking advantage of people already down, so they pummel these poor people again and they hit below the belt.

Spence thinks because they have a smooth line and are polite makes them less than slime, I guess. I think that makes them worse than any timeshare sleaze because at least you walk out of a timeshare sales presentation with SOMETHING, if you grab the bait. With these guys, you walk away with NOTHING and paid a lot of money for that nothing.

The Timesharing Today article in its entirety, and not how it is portrayed on their website, if you read the article, very definitely contained some negative. As soon as this company knew the guy was with the magazine, the guy from TR was trying to take back the paperwork and became defensive of TR. I tend to read with emotion instead of with my brain and sometimes it gets me in trouble. At first, I knew the scum were showing their true colors, then the Timesharing Today writer went the opposite, probably because the people were nice to him. But to me, he should not have written a positive word at all about the company because he is leading people right into the TR trap.

I am disgusted with the magazine at this point and will let my subscription expire, even though I have about ten years to go. I have written several articles and have given some subscriptions to friends and relatives, so my subscription is like the Eveready bunny, it keeps going and going and going. If Timesharing Today is going to allow this company to continue defending their company, I will never pay another dime and will tell all my friends as well. I am also on the board of a timeshare in Colorado and will make sure the link to the magazine is taken off the site.

[Spence Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Spence]

Spence thinks because they have a smooth line and are polite makes them less than slime, I guess.

Where the heck do you get off telling the world what I think, you have no earthly idea what I think. Please quote where I said "they have a smooth line and are polite"

[shopgirl Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close shopgirl]

That was not a quote, that was the impression you left on the TUG thread, so the shillers were able to feed off of that and actually believed you were thinking their business plan was fine. Your feelings about the company softened after that meeting because they were nice and polite. Do you disagree with that? All timeshare salesmen are nice, it is their job.

Spence, I am not trying to get you mad because I know you can get hostile. I have had so much respect for your posts and your knowledge of timeshare, especially Sunterra, but you have been confrontational with me over this subject. I am sorry if you are offended and am not meaning it that way, so please don't take it like that. I am just saying that your position changed from before the meeting to after.

Yes, I read your posts about the company, over and over again. I guess you would agree with the writer for Timesharing Today, the company has a purpose, but I still do not agree. So we will have to just agree to disagree and leave it at that. I don't need anymore attacks on me and accusations that I cannot comprehend what I am reading, so please don't go there. I have a degree in English and comprehend very well. I also get a general, emotional reaction when I read and what you wrote was no longer negative about the company, once you went to their presentation, so I guess there is some acceptance of their business model on your part. I don't feel it, so perhaps I have to attend a presentation to get it. I may do that sometime.

As far as the negatives against timeshare by the company, the postcard I have here on my desk says, "Friends don't let friends buy timeshare." I guess you don't think that is negative? They bring timeshare owners into a meeting that obviously have problems with their timeshares because that card gets them to call. After sending out such a card, they then tell them the group how maintenance fees and assessments never end. I think that is negative BS, worse than the timeshare salesmen who at least talk positively about the ownership. I can buy what they say because my experiences have been great.

The difference between those who pay these people can only be explained in two ways:

Either the people are older and do not have internet access, or

They have enough money to pay the cost to get rid of something they are convinced was a bad buy.

Either way, both groups are uninformed and these guys know the truth and sell the timeshare on ebay or other resources with the opposite information. Now the timeshare is "deeded for life and will be yours forever". If the people have not decided on their own that the timeshare was a waste of money and will continue to drain their pocketbooks, they will sure think so at the end of the presentation.

[BocaBum99 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close BocaBum99]

Cindy,

I think I know where Spence is coming from. He is actually not passing judgement on TR. He is just reporting facts and analysis based on those facts. I found that very helpful to me. In fact, most of the time I appreciate it more when people post only the facts, then I don't get caught up in their editorializing. I can cut through the opinions and figure out what is really going on.

On the other hand, I can see how you can interpret Spence's posts the way you do. But, you should know that he isn't passing judgement. And, you are interpreting no opinion as supporting them. He hasn't said such a thing.

For a long while on those threads, I was reacting to information like Spence was. Just collecting and analyzing facts. Now that I have proof of their shilling, I am giving my opinion based on the facts. That opinion is that they are slimballs that shouldn't be trusted.

And, I am encouraging Spence to turn from a neutral posting stance to a negative one. But, it's up to him.

[shopgirl Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close shopgirl]

Boca, that is fine. I understand that some of you guys are analytical, while I am emotional. Not a good combination, which explains many of the problems that you will find in marriages. Rick is used to me after 34 years of marriage and knowing me for 36!

My entire experience with timeshare has been so positive, especially after finding TUG and this site, I cannot imagine anyone paying a company cold hard cash to get rid of a timeshare.

I wish I could help these people before they pay these guys. I would direct them to these two sites and would be happy to write their ad for them, to give away their timeshares. Again, I believe these people do not have the internet available to them.

Thanks Boca, for not being confrontational with me on this. Spence will handle it as always. I will apologize all over the place and he will still be the same because that is Spence.