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ARDA Timeshare Resale Think Tank happening now

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  • ARDA Timeshare Resale Think Tank happening now

    ARDA is having an industry think tank on the resale market this week. I got a report of the sessions and here is my 2nd hand takeaway:

    ARDA has felt that it has neglected the resale market for many years and therefore agreed to host this session. Brokers from all over the industry and listing companies like Redweek are participating. And, they had the head of (I think) the Arkansas Real Estate Commission attend the meeting to provide a perspective.

    They had moderated sessions and came up with a Mission Statement. Hopefully, we will see that mission statement published soon. They brainstormed things that they see as problems and things they want to see changed.

    The described and discussed various business models from upfront fee brokers, to pay to take your timeshare outfits, to normal timeshare brokerage firms.

    Some of the issues discussed included honesty in the industry, education of timeshare owners, high closing costs, cooperation with resort developers, more uniform standards of work, more transparancy in the purchasing process and a true MLS system. I'm sure I missed some stuff. This is just what I recall from what I heard last night.

    After listening to the input, I have concluded that this effort will with 75-90% probability go nowhere. But, I derived a couple of ideas that, if implemented, would go a long way to help the industry. I doubt the ideas I am going to promote here get adopted. But, if they did, they probably would help immensely.

    First of all, the grand ideas that were discussed at the conference were great in that dialog occurred and greater awareness has been spotlighted on this subject. And, it gets people pumped up for a while which means for a short time, they are willing to act. However, we need to acknowledge that true industry reform will require time and will only occur as a result of consumers demanding changes and therefore the industry changing to accommodate their needs. There will be no reform until pure self interest of all parties push them into the direction of reform. The internet and eBay and message boards such as this one have helped more than just about anything else to force the reforms that have been achieved to date. More information and knowlege = more reform willl occur.

    Before I proceed, we need to recognize and acknowledge where we are at today as an industry before providing potential solutions so that we can test logically the viability of those solutions.

    Today, timesharing is still a small, but growing market where the only viable model for sales and marketing of Resort Developer timeshare units is to spend a ton on sales and marketing to lure tour guests into the resort and then close them hard while they are there. It is true that for the most part, there has been no other model that has worked on a large scale. And resort developers have tried. There are small successes such as those reported for resorts like One Napili Way. But those are the outliers, and not the general rule. So, in essence, resort developers need to spend a lot on sales and marketing or no new resorts get developed.

    It is this single thing that creates many of the problems we experience in the industry. By using this model, Resort Developers are actually disincented to provide transparency of process and facts about the resale market. If they did, they would be shooting themselves in the foot. If anything, most resort developers make it appear difficult to buy on the resale market so that they can justify spending double or triple for a timeshare. At the end of the day, timesharing cannot be reformed until resort developers can make money by selling for only a small premium over the resale market. We are many years away from that happening.

    Okay, so resort developers really aren't the enemy. They really can only be successful using the model they do today.

    In addition, ARDA is the trade association for the resort developers. After all, they are the American Resort Development Association. I wonder just how much money and what percentage of funding comes from our voluntary $5/ownership contributions we make without knowing they are voluntary? In any event, ARDA isn't going to do anything that hurts the developers. That would be suicide. But, knowing that their key constituent is the resort developers, we can use that fact to leverage a potential helpful solution.

    Moreover, timeshares are real estate products. As a result, State Real Estate Commissions make the rules and regulations governing timeshares. That exacerbates the problem because it creates non-uniform processes for closing, buying and selling timeshares. And, timesharing is just too small for these Real Estate Commissions to spend a lot of time and energy on it.

    With that backdrop, here is my 3 point plan for ARDA.

    1) ARDA should create an ARDA Approved Broker certification program. They should create a standard of behavior that is supported by both the Resort Developers AND the Resale Broker industry. It should be jointly created with participants on both sides.

    There was once created a Resale Broker Alliance. It was adopted and supported by a small number of brokers, but it really didn't take off. It was sponsored by a timeshare brokerage firm. I don't want to try that again. That has no incentives and no teeth.

    What ARDA should do after it creates this certification program is to distribute logos for placement on websites and business cards just like the BBB Online, TrustE, SquareTrade, etc. We are talking about an endorsement by ARDA which is supported by the Resort Developers.

    The carrot is that ARDA should negotiate with the resort developers a STANDARD for resort transfers that they will adopt and offer to all ARDA certified brokers. Everyone NOT certified would by a higher transfer fee. And, when the resort developers get calls from owners on what they need to do to sell their timeshare, they recommend that they go to an ARDA certified broker.

    Now, this will require cooperation between the Developers and the Brokers to not steal resort developer sales. If this issue cannot be addressed, this concept will never work. But, the Certified Broker status will require those brokers to restrain how they operate. Is it possible for a resale company to have such restraint? Is there a set of rules that can be defined and enforced as restraint? I don't know for sure, but it does merit further investigation.

    2) ARDA should work with State Real Estate Commissions to create a system for tracking and report actual sales prices of timeshares. Part of the problem in the resale market is that it is very difficult to do a "Comparable Market Analysis" which is what ever Realtor does for a taking a potential listing for real estate. That can't be done because the data isn't available. It is critical for valid information to be available on the resale market of timeshares in order for accurate information to be available for CMAs. If that were the standard, it would be far less of a problem for timeshare resale customers. They contact 3 or 4 brokers, they do a real CMA vs. a fake one as some of the upfront listers and pay to get rid of companies provide or suggest.

    3) Lastly, ARDA needs to be for protecting firms with Education services to consumers. I can envision many money making enterprises for educating consumers on the benefits of timesharing. But, I would fear reprisal from resort developers if I were too successful.

    At the end of the day, the resort developers should want educated consumers because that will reduce the need for education at the presentation. That will take a long time to achieve. But, at the end of the day, its the key thing to unleash the potential of timesharing.

    Well. That's it for now.
    My Rental Site
    My Resale Site

  • #2
    That sounds good.

    Jya-Ning
    Jya-Ning

    Comment


    • #3
      Boca said: After listening to the input, I have concluded that this effort will with 75-90% probability go nowhere.


      Boca,Please refer to item 2 on the list: http://www.timeshareforums.com/forum...ad.php?t=21539
      Life is short, live it with this awareness.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by katiemack
        Boca said: After listening to the input, I have concluded that this effort will with 75-90% probability go nowhere.


        Boca,Please refer to item 2 on the list: http://www.timeshareforums.com/forum...ad.php?t=21539
        Lawren
        ------------------------
        There are many wonderful places in the world, but one of my favourite places is on the back of my horse.
        - Rolf Kopfle

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by BocaBum99
          Okay, so resort developers really aren't the (OUR) enemy. They really can only be successful using the model they do today. (THEY ARE THEIR OWN WORST ENEMY)

          1) ARDA should create an ARDA Approved Broker certification program. They should create a standard of behavior that is supported by both the Resort Developers AND the Resale Broker industry. It should be jointly created with participants on both sides.

          The carrot is that ARDA should negotiate with the resort developers a STANDARD for resort transfers that they will adopt and offer to all ARDA certified brokers. Everyone NOT certified would by a higher transfer fee. And, when the resort developers get calls from owners on what they need to do to sell their timeshare, they recommend that they go to an ARDA certified broker.

          Now, this will require cooperation between the Developers and the Brokers to not steal resort developer sales. If this issue cannot be addressed, this concept will never work. But, the Certified Broker status will require those brokers to restrain how they operate. Is it possible for a resale company to have such restraint? Is there a set of rules that can be defined and enforced as restraint? I don't know for sure, but it does merit further investigation.(THERE MAY BE A KERNAL OF SUCCESS AT COOPERATION IF THE "CERTIFIED" BROKERS ARE A DIVISION OF THE DEVELOPER SALES OFFICE)

          2) ARDA should work with State Real Estate Commissions to create a system for tracking and report actual sales prices of timeshares. (THIS DATA COULD BE POOLED BY THE "CERTIFIED" BROKERS. PERHAPS BY USING THE MLS TYPE SYSTEM) Part of the problem in the resale market is that it is very difficult to do a "Comparable Market Analysis" which is what ever Realtor does for a taking a potential listing for real estate. That can't be done because the data isn't available. It is critical for valid information to be available on the resale market of timeshares in order for accurate information to be available for CMAs. If that were the standard, it would be far less of a problem for timeshare resale customers. They contact 3 or 4 brokers, they do a real CMA vs. a fake one as some of the upfront listers and pay to get rid of companies provide or suggest.

          3) Lastly, ARDA needs to be for protecting firms with Education services to consumers. I can envision many money making enterprises for educating consumers on the benefits of timesharing. But, I would fear reprisal from resort developers if I were too successful. IF DEVELOPER SALES OFFICES BRANCH OUT TO BECOME ARDA "CERTIFIED" RESALE BROKERS THE MARKET WOULD STABALIZE AND THE HORROR STORIES THAT EDUCATION SERVICE "PROTECT" AGAINST SHOULD DIMINISH.

          At the end of the day, the resort developers should want educated consumers because that will reduce the need for education at the presentation. That will take a long time to achieve. But, at the end of the day, its the key thing to unleash the potential of timesharing.

          Well. That's it for now.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Hostelling View Post
            I think your additions are excellent. I like the idea of the Resort Developer having its own resale shop. It can outsource it to a third party or several third parties each of which have certified reseller status so that they can agree on rules that protects the developer. I know that is possible. I've seen it work.

            I also like a group like ARDA maintaining an MLS database.

            I think these ideas can work. And, they would be a huge benefit to the industry.
            My Rental Site
            My Resale Site

            Comment


            • #7
              I think the developers like the market more or less the way it is- with little or no organization. If it was really easy for a prospect to find market value quickly and easily, the rate of recission would skyrocket.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by tonyg
                I think the developers like the market more or less the way it is- with little or no organization. If it was really easy for a prospect to find market value quickly and easily, the rate of recission would skyrocket.
                Tony's right. Developers want the resale market way below the radar of the consuming public. The big money is to be made in developer sales...period.
                "Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed and those who are cold and are not clothed."
                -- Dwight D. Eisenhower

                Comment


                • #9
                  Since most hotels and resorts have internet access today, don't you think that timeshare buyers are going to find out on the Internet what they have bought on impulse earlier that day? How can the resorts stop them from doing this any longer? People search the Internet today for all type of products to compare prices or to find out more about the product. Google search is their biggest nightmare, I believe. Only a few older folks may not use the Internet yet but they may have younger people with them so they may look it up for them.

                  What I see happen is that the developers will put very little in a standard floating week contract and a lot of perks or upgrades will only be given if you have bought from the developer direct and the upgrades will not transfer to a resale buyer from a private party. He may never get a unit with a desirable view or a desirable week in his season or desirable internal exchanges with the developer but only through their resale office or brokers they may use. They own the development projects and can write up a contract anyway they want when they start a new phase or project so the older contracts floating around without these limitations may become more valuable in time. JMHO.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by tonyg
                    I think the developers like the market more or less the way it is- with little or no organization. If it was really easy for a prospect to find market value quickly and easily, the rate of recission would skyrocket.
                    I under stand your point, as it is now the developer dreads the buyer finding out that the resale market is dreadfully undervalued.

                    However if the BOCA plan were adopted, the result would be that resale prices would come up and stabalize near retail.

                    For us who own timeshares this is great news.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by iconnections View Post
                      Since most hotels and resorts have internet access today, don't you think that timeshare buyers are going to find out on the Internet what they have bought on impulse earlier that day? How can the resorts stop them from doing this any longer? People search the Internet today for all type of products to compare prices or to find out more about the product. Google search is their biggest nightmare, I believe. Only a few older folks may not use the Internet yet but they may have younger people with them so they may look it up for them.
                      Even though most people use computers, most are not really Internet savvy.

                      People buy from the developer on impulse, when they are in vacation mode. The timeshare salespeople take advantage of their susceptibility. I don't think most people consider researching the purchase because, if they did, Internet or not, they wouldn't sign on the dotted line. They are caught up in the moment.

                      You and I and eveyone else on this Board are very Internet fascile- BUT- how many of your friends are? They may use a computer every day, but how many really know how to search the Internet? Personally, of all the people I know, I can think of only a handful that would even realize that resources such as this board and Tug would probably exist and be savvy enough to find them. When I told my friends that we were buying a timeshare and that I had learnt all about them, enough to buy on the resale market, from a few bulletin boards they gave me that surprised stare and asked "how?"

                      We bought in Aruba. I have a close friend who bought there, along with many of their friends. Most bought 2 weeks. None were aware of the resale market. These are educated, successful, professional people. We are of an age where, while not a part of the "computer generation," our kids were, and we've all had computers in our homes at least since the early '90's. We are certainly not the "older folks," many of whom have limited computer use if any.

                      It also amazes me that most people don't realize this...but I think the people on this board are not "most people." Most people don't think in terms of using computers to look for things like this. It surprises me too, but that's reality today. Even amongst the adults who grew up with computers...I know of some twenty-somethings who would definitely let their fingers do the research while others whowould be clueless.

                      Good for developers...good for the rest of us- if people didn't purchase direct the developers would loose the incentive to build those nice new luxury timeshares such as the newer Marriotts, etc.. We can then buy them cheaper on the resale market

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Since the conference is taken from Nov 1 to Nov 3, so it is ended. I don't know if there are seperated committees that will try to work more into detail or this is just serve as awareness purpose.

                        There is one person that tried to collect some info from people that paid reseller up-front money to sell their TS, and said (s)he will report back. But if there is any indication, I will tend to believe unless it becomes necessary, there will be no or very less effort try to make on the resell market. Total Industrial Retail Market at this moment is around 6 ~ 7 B. If 10% wants out, and their price is now 20% worth of the price they pay, and if assume 70% get use these front-load (either give up or paid as commision), the resell is around 100M market, and 70M will be the money people pays to get rid of their week, and a good % will be waste of money. Today, the most effective way is to sell by self, it will take years to push a resell market to even get to 50% of developer's price if assume developer willing to work with resell during these years.

                        But recorgize a problem is a good start, it usually mark the 70% or the work.

                        Jya-Ning
                        Jya-Ning

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          The ARDA's resale guidelines page

                          Have no idea when this page was added into ARDA

                          I think Tug's one is better

                          Jya-Ning

                          In case they change the structure. I found it from ARDA under "Consumer Information" -> "Resale Guidelines"
                          Jya-Ning

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