relationship between TS owners and Sunterra

[Spence Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Spence]

Does this mean that Trust owners using Sunoptions can book 13 months out while owners can only book 360 days out?Allen

The answer is partly yes. And the explanation lies in the different types of ownership at the resort. Now note that there are two types of Club Sunterra ownerships - Club Sunterra trust affiliated and Club Sunterra trust converted.


As I understand Club Sunterra Trust converted points can be used to make reservations 13 months out. Non Club Sunterra and Club Sunterra affiliated can make reservations 12 months in advance.

***

Hope that helps. Sunterra is doing everything they can to make it complicated and to give owners incentives pay bucks to convert to the Trust.

They key here is that only as much inventory as is in the Hi TRUST may be booked at the 13month window by Hi TRUST members. The complicated part is... does that mean Hi TRUST members can have access to, and book all the PRIME HOLIDAYS 13months out before any other category owner gets access?? Who knows?

[alleng Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close alleng]

Wow

So that is correct. Trust converted points can book before our owners get a chance to book. I was wondering why so much inventory is already gone when I have booked one second after the 360th day turns. So much for waiting up till
3 AM (midnight Hawaii time) to book next years weeks.
Is this preferential treatment allowed. They have always told me that no one can book before 360 days. I knew that a few units were already spoken for by original owners of fixed weeks. I wonder how many of these converted trust point owners there are and more importantly whether ther will be more of them each year to compete with.
I hate playing games where the "house" can change the rules as we go.
Sunterra contacted me about converting and told me this can only be done if you buy another week in one of there properties along with the conversion.
It sounded fishy to me at the time and I took a pass. Now I understand the
incentive. They have created a new class of preferred owner with priority booking priveleges and you can join that club by merely trading in your weeks
which would sell retail for over $40,000 each (approx. $18,000 each on the resale market) and buy another Sunterra week. What a load of BS.
Also since they no longer sell these float/float weeks their inventory is inferior to what old owners were able to purchase. This new system was probably created to fix that problem for them while lowering the value of the old float/
float weeks. Does anyone know how to spell "class action "?
Sorry if my post is too long, I'm new to this forum stuff. LOL

[opkansas Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close opkansas]

Reply to SPENCE

Part of the 'problem' I see there is that there are two 'owners' that would control the picture... the TRUST and Vacation Internationale (former Sunterra Pacific) they both control a significant amount of units that could be voted as an unbeatable block, although the relationship between Sunterra and VI is not friendly... VI kicked Sunterra out as management for their program.

There are POSSIBLE types of ownership in a Sunterra resort. 1. Sunterra 2. The Sunterra "Trust" 3. Deeded owners. I have deeded ownership at Bent Creek Golf Village.

The relationship between VI and Sunterra (Sunterra Pacific) was STRICTLY a management arrangement. VI terminated that relationship when their contract expired.

Sunterra "advertised" Sunterra Pacific to the point where people "assumed" that RCI was the the developer. EXAMPLE: Sunterra advertised their "ownership" in VI's Oasis Resort in Palm Springs. Sunterra DID own property there to sell - EXACTLY 119 WEEKS. PERIOD! Not units - weeks!

Sunterra Pacific was strictly a management company - a division of Sunterra.

I am not unhappy with Sunterra at the present time as my Sun Options affiliation with II is GREAT! HOWEVER, THIS HAPPY RELATIONSHIP WAS NOT ACCEPTABLE FOR A LONG TIME AND INVOLVED LEGAL COUNSEL TO RECTIFY THE ALLEGED FRAUD.

[timeos2 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close timeos2]

It is confusing and hard to know whats really happening

So that is correct. Trust converted points can book before our owners get a chance to book. I was wondering why so much inventory is already gone when I have booked one second after the 360th day turns. So much for waiting up till
3 AM (midnight Hawaii time) to book next years weeks.
Is this preferential treatment allowed. They have always told me that no one can book before 360 days. I knew that a few units were already spoken for by original owners of fixed weeks. I wonder how many of these converted trust point owners there are and more importantly whether ther will be more of them each year to compete with.

Yes that is true BUT they should only be able to reserve an amount equal to the percentage that has been transferred to the Trust. As TRO spelled out once the ownership becomes Trust based the older deeded owners, Club or not, no longer have access to that use time. Doesn't matter if it's reserved by those members at 13 months or 13 hours from the use date it is no longer part of the deeded use pool. What the deeded users have to choose from is the time not converted - whatever that represents in units/views/dates. That pool is also reduced by those that converted to Club but held on to their deed and those few times that were fixed use sales. Whew! What a convoluted mess. Now nowhere is there a list that says on week 13 there are 50% of the units in deeded, 25% in Club and 25% in Trust. It only gets worse if you add in Ocean front, Ocean view, etc. And all of this applies to every week.

Bottom line is the system has been altered from what was originally sold, what came later, what that evolved into and what it is today. Whatever moment in time you bought into has only X number of similar units available in any given week. You almost have to trust that the management (Sunterra) is distributing that correctly and fairly. I doubt they have or will provide any type of reports that provide details on how its being done. You should plan to move to reserve the time you are entitled to as quickly as you can each use year. Most other owners aren't likely to do the same so you may do OK. If you still can't get what you want you have a problem as it will be very hard to prove that they aren't following the rules since so many different ones apply. Good luck.

[T. R. Oglodyte Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close T. R. Oglodyte]

I forgot about one other class of owners who can reserve more than one year in advance.

That class is ordinary, non-Sunterra affiliated or converted owners who own multiple weeks. If those owners string their weeks in succession (as many of those owners) do, they can reserve the same unit for their entire stay in a single reservation.

I suspect that much of the available Christmas/New Years inventory in prime units is reserved in this fashion. Owners book for arrival in mid-December (which is a relatively low use period), but stay through New Years.

****

I have a deferred call to Patty Arellanes in which I have been planning to get more info on how the reservation system works; areas that I'm particularly interested in are the 13/12 month reservation windows and how availability of units is spaced out during the year.

[T. R. Oglodyte Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close T. R. Oglodyte]

Yes that is true BUT they should only be able to reserve an amount equal to the percentage that has been transferred to the Trust.

One piece of information that I don't have (and want to get) is how the trust reservation system works. E.g., let's say that the trust has 5,000 ocean front weeks and those week represent 25% of the total ocean front weeks ownership.

Does that mean the trust members are limited to taking no more than 25% of the weeks at any given check in date, or does it mean that the trust members can book ocean front weeks any time they like on a space available basis (with the 13-month window for trust-converted weeks) up to a maximum of 5000 reservations?

[timeos2 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close timeos2]

The base has to be the percentage

One piece of information that I don't have (and want to get) is how the trust reservation system works. E.g., let's say that the trust has 5,000 ocean front weeks and those week represent 25% of the total ocean front weeks ownership.

Does that mean the trust members are limited to taking no more than 25% of the weeks at any given check in date, or does it mean that the trust members can book ocean front weeks any time they like on a space available basis (with the 13-month window for trust-converted weeks) up to a maximum of 5000 reservations?

That is the key. If it isn't an absolute limit each use period not exceeding the 25% (or whatever the number is) for EACH ownership type then some group is being shortchanged. That isn't easy to manage and even harder to verify. It will be interesting to know what they say is happening.

[mshatty Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close mshatty]

I find this thread very interesting but all I can say is WHEWW, it sure is complicated.

[T. R. Oglodyte Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close T. R. Oglodyte]

I find this thread very interesting but all I can say is WHEWW, it sure is complicated.

Let us know after you think you've got this down. Then we can go on Raintree Vacation Club and discuss complicated ownership arrangements.

[mshatty Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close mshatty]

Let us know after you think you've got this down. Then we can go on Raintree Vacation Club and discuss complicated ownership arrangements.

My head spends when I read about all of the Marriot rules. Sunterra is a level up on them. If Raintree VC is more complicated, I will remember never to use my addiction to buy one.

[alleng Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close alleng]

With all of the hoopla about the confusing reservation system, I feel that it is important to say that my partner used one of my weeks at Poipu Point this past Christmas and loved it. Unfortunately for me I have not been able to go there the last two years and when I did the year before we had 15 out of 17 days of rain. Oh well....
Also is it OK to say here that I would sell one of my weeks if someone wanted it?

[T. R. Oglodyte Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close T. R. Oglodyte]

My head spends when I read about all of the Marriot rules. Sunterra is a level up on them. If Raintree VC is more complicated, I will remember never to use my addiction to buy one.

I always consider that complicated = opportunity.

When a system is complicated, there will inevitably be loopholes and opportunities for savvy and knowledgeable people. An advantage of TIG and TS4Ms is that people who participate get the info they need to exploit market inefficiencies.

IOW - compilicated is not necessarily a reason to stay away. It can be a reason to dig in and take advantage.