Newbie question of the Day #1

[wallace2 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close wallace2]

Gidday all,

Please accept my humblest apologies in advance for the length of this thread. I am trying to learn about all this as thoroughly as possible.

My wife and I just returned from a Florida vacation where we endured a Westgate Resorts TS tour in order to get some cheap Disney World tickets. I had warned and braced my wife for the sales pitch and we came away (luckily) relatively unscathed. The display condo they showed us was the usual 1/1 and 2/2 (combined to make the 3/3 option), and of course the 2/2 looked spectacularly outfitted and spacious and my wife fell in love with it. But we made it out without signing on the dotted line. Whew!!

Of course the maths behind it all (from the sales person) makes it all sound so affordable and make so much sense to buy. The purchase price is a sound investment in real estate if you buy in the right location, location, location (like Orlando, of course --- where we were), and the annual MFs are offset by the quality & size of condo and the money saved in dining in instead of dining out. Sounds like a winning combination, right? Well, first off, one quick look at eBay tells me that the resale value even in "hot" locations like Vegas and Orlando is less than optimal (resales valued at 20% or even less of their initial cost I imagine). So that's the first GOOD think I found out .... Lesson #1 : If you're going to get IN, buy from someone getting OUT (through eBay, this site, redweek etc). Don't buy directly from the developer.

I have so many questions, but maybe I will learn more by asking ONE detailed question per day and seeing what happens from there.

Question of the day : Would we be better off longterm buying into a TS with lower MFs but in a less "desirable" location (compared to Vegas or Orlando) and trading up when we want to vacation in those spots, or should we look at buying into those hot spots (along with the higher MFs) and having the flexibility to trade out/down for longer trips?

(Of course, I don't have the foggiest idea how all this "trading", "exchanging", points systems etc work yet, but ya have to start somewhere.)

(Maybe the site could even have a "tutorial" section dedicated to newbies .... if someone was so inclined to put in all the work and effort to do this.... just thinking out loud.....)

Cheers all. I will check back in and no doubt post another dumb newbie question tomorrow night.
Mike n Pam

[Tom52 Member Find all posts View Profile Close Tom52]

Buy resale is my number 1 rule which you by now have figured out. My number 2 rule is buy where you like to vacation but with a maintenance fee you can live with. The trading thing will work itself out.

[Spence Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Spence]

'My'Question of the day (not THE Question of the day): Would we be better off longterm buying into a TS with lower MFs but in a less "desirable" location (compared to Vegas or Orlando) and trading up when we want to vacation in those spots, or should we look at buying into those hot spots (along with the higher MFs) and having the flexibility to trade out/down for longer trips?

You need to think Supply vs Demand. You've been snowed on the desirable location bit. Yes, Orlando is the most demanded(desirable?) location BUT it also has the most timeshares. This means that just about anything will trade in, BUT it also means that it's not so easy to trade out as oversupply means your trade power will be less than expected.

[Glitter Brunello Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Glitter Brunello]

I don't think most experienced timeshare owners would consider Orlando a "more desirable" location. It is extremely overbuilt, you can rent there supercheap except during school vacations. Las Vegas is better, but there are plenty of timeshares there, too.

Not the question you asked, but your question is based on calculated misinformation given to you by one of the sleazier timeshare developers in the business.

I agree that buying in a place you'd like to visit is a good idea. If you plan on trading it into nice resorts during prime times, you will need a strong trader. Trading power is based on supply/demand, so prime season (or a holiday week) in a hot area without many timeshares (or without enough to meet the demand) will have the strongest trading power. This will cost you, so you need to decide if you need it or not. If you can travel off-season (fall/spring), you don't need a prime week. Some exchange companies also consider resort quality, and factor it in more than others, but that is another question for sure.

[riverdees05 Platinum Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close riverdees05]

Welcome to Timeshare Forums

Take your time, there is no rush to purchase. Surf the internet and spend time on the timeshare sites: TimeshareForums, Redweek, Holiday Timeshare Sales, ebay, TUG, etc. Ask Questions, ask questions, and learn from other's questions and answers. Do your homework and it will pay big dividends.

[wallace2 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close wallace2]

OK, tell me straight up then : I was told that you can trade DOWN if you own a desirable TS (location, week, etc) quite easily. What does it cost to trade UP?

I would love to hear from folks who own (for example) a 1/1, but who use whatever leverage they have in getting 2/2 units when they can. How much cash and/or points? (I know that there wil be a thousand answers from a thousand examples.) Does the trading up make financial sense, or should we be looking at buying the best we can (which will cost more $$ upfront and anually) and maybe not utilizing it to it's full advantage? Whereas if we "bought cheap" (1/1?, non-prime week, lower cost upfront & annually), if/when we wanted to splurge and trade up to a 2/2 prime, how much will that cost us (examples only).

FYI, next year we will become just the two of us (no kids). Our vacation weeks will be 100% flexible (my wife's ending her teaching career as soon as her youngest leaves high school next year) so peak/off-peak won't matter to us.

Thanks all!!!
Mike n Pam

[Glitter Brunello Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Glitter Brunello]

Oh, boy. Yes there are a lot of answers. Especially since now you mentioned POINTS. What Westgate was selling was a deeded week, right? Maybe it was convertible to RCI Points? Points are a whole 'nuther thing, and you should do your research before buying into any points system (or buying a deeded week, for that matter). Some people really like points, but there are a lot of ins/outs to using them depending on the system. If you master it, points can afford more flexibility in terms of unit size, etc... You can stretch a prime week's worth of points in a 2 bedroom to several weeks in a 1 bedroom during low season... But, then again, you can do that with weeks, too, if you get 'bonus weeks' for your deposit from your exchange company...

Some exchange companies allow a trade up in size, subject to availability, at nol extra charge. Others charge a fee for it ranging from $100-$300 depending on the trade-up. Trade-up in "exchange quality" in terms of supply/demand is another story. Very difficult to trade a dog week, or even a mediocre week, for a great week (not necessarily impossible, but not something to be counted on).

[Bill4728 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Bill4728]

There are 4 kinds of TS (not counting point based TS)
- The super top of the line TS which are always hard to trade into ( these are TS like Marriott Maui or Westin Maui. They are top of the line, very expensive and should be use for your own use or as a rental since they are too expensive to trade)
- Great TS ( these are very nice TS in high demand /low supply areas which are available by other great TS during peak season and by lessor TS during non peak seasons)
- Good TS during peak season (these are often your best bet. They are often cheap on resale and when reserved during the peak demand times can trade into much better TS than you'd guess)
- Good TS during non peak season (these are super cheap but will often not get you into anything but other TS like them)


The prices of TS on the resell market can vary from >$25K for one of the top of the line TS to $1 (yes $1) for the good TS during non peak season. Many people find that TS in the $1000- $4000 range will get you most all the great TS vacations you could dream.

I hope this helps.

[somerville Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close somerville]

Since you live out West, you may want to consider one of the points systems, such as Worldmark, for flexibility. Another option is a lock off unit, so you could split the unit into smaller units in the years you didn't need a 2BR. With respect to trading up in size, that depends somewhat on the excahnge company that you are in. It is harder to trade up in size with II, except during during Flexchange period. You have a lot of resort options in the area you live in. If you like upscale resorts, you may want to consider a western Marriott lock off.

[wallace2 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close wallace2]

OK, I think I've opened this big ol' can of worms and I don't know how to close it again ... LOL.

I just visited Interval International's and RCI's websites to read and ingest information. I found a page on the RCI site that listed all their fees for each type of transaction they can do, points rollovers, reservations, annual memberships, etc etc. Can't do an awful lot on the II site in the way of seeing their fees for comparison.

I am clueless as to the hows and whys of the RCI Weeks vs the RCI Points systems. They offer both systems but I struggle to understand the difference and which one might be better for our particular situation. Thoughts? Is one better for flexibility in destination vs the other better for which weeks you want?

I'm wondering if the myriad of questions I have might not be better answered in the chat room than here on the forum itself. Anyone up for a chat tonight? Name a time and I'll do my best to be there. Dinner / dishes etc permitting LOL.

Cheers,
Mike

[mshatty Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close mshatty]

Mike,

Try this website: http://www.tradingtime.net/default.asp?DocumentID=106

It's free to join and Scott has a real good FAQ about RCI Points and Weeks.

[Glitter Brunello Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Glitter Brunello]

Just fyi, there are a lot of RCI haters around. Then those like me, who have a love/hate relationship with them (mostly hate this week, their website is horrendous and has been down for days). Probably even a few who still love them, but the others outweigh them, at least around here.

If I had to start with one exchange company, RCI would be my LAST choice. But since I am a member of 3 exchange companies, thinking about adding a 4th, I have learned how to maximize my RCI membership, and which weeks to give them as opposed to other companies, etc....

[wallace2 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close wallace2]

Hi Glitter and all the others who have responded so far,

Thanks for your replies. I am learning from each and every reply. So much to learn and so multi-directional we feel right now.

I have looked into the Worldmark program via their website. Very straight forward with their approach and concept, but NOTHING at all on how much it costs to buy into the program (of course they want me to call their sales staff and/or attend an "educational class" on their program). Any comments or response to the "how much?" question for Worldmark anyone? I see on ebay that you can "buy" the point allotment (eg $6500 for 9000 annual points). I do love their website in that you can see the points required for each and every resort broken out by unit size and season .... very easy to use and navigate through.

I am researching Fairfield next. I keep on coming back to II and RCI of course, but they are both extremely difficult to base anything off because we don't currently own a TS therefore we can't become members of their sites as we have nothing to "bank" etc and no membership numbers of course. This is where I need to lean on you guys ... PM me or post publicly some examples of what it actually costs (fees? points? cash? trading power? your first born?) to get a good exchange happening and what "bang for your buck" you can get.

Will stay on this forum of course to keep bouncing thoughts and questions off of (if nobody minds, that is).

Thank you all again for your wisdom and responses!!! Cheers!
Mike n Pam

[somerville Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close somerville]

You can buy Worldmark for at least half off developer price on eBay, etc.

On the Fairfield board, someone posted a link to Fairfield's 2007-2008 directory. It has an explantation of the program. There is also info on Fairfield at Fairfield_timeshare Yahoo group. You have to ask to join the group.

[ladycody Member Find all posts View Profile Close ladycody]

I own WorldMark, and while I dont trade right now...I do belong to both RCI and II and am impressed with what I'm able to pull with regard to exchanges....and even more impressed when looking at short notice exchange possibilities.

For exchanging with Worldmark, you use your credits to determine the unit size you'd like to secure (although you can sometimes get a larger unit with a lower number of credits) and pay an exchange fee ($129-$199 depending on the exchange company and whether you are traveling internationally) for a week long trade. If traveling on short notice (within 45 days for RCI or within 59 days for II)...then you can nab anything that's available to WM searches, regardless of unit size for just 4000 credits plus the exchange fee...which is a heck of a deal!

You're location would also give you some decent access to additional bonus time if you chose to use it (meaning that, in WM, when units are available and being booked within 2 weeks of arrival, you can choose to pay 4.4 cents per credit instead of using credits for a 1-4 night stay) It's based on availability and as a result works best in white/blue season and midweek...but can occassionally be used in red and/or on weekends if your obsessive enough to check daily ) For instance...a 2br in Pinetop during white season (775 credits per night midweek) would cost about $34 per night utilizing bonus time and would touch none of your credits.

Hope this helps some. Have fun with whatever you choose!!!