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JLB · 06-24-2007, 07:59 PM

FWIW, the person quoted in the article has told me that the things he said were taken out of context and then rearranged and used by the author to provide the slant he wanted.

I've been told that the rearranging actually changed the meaning of some of the things he said. For instance, he says he told the author that the weeks they now own were purchased for $300, $750 and $1500, and the author used that to say that he has taken timeshare vacations off the Internet for those prices, by renting from owners, which I've been told he has never done.

I've been told that the person quoted also told the author things he and his family love about timesharing, the 100 or so exchanges, the sharing of them with family and friends, the wonderful places they have been able to travel to and the hundreds of friends he and his wife have made because of timesharing.

JLB · 06-24-2007, 08:16 PM

What the heck. Since this person submitted his information by email, there is a written copy. You can see for yourself how stuff was moved around:

HI Jim,

I'm very interested in quoting you on the thoughts below about where the industry is headed. What don't you like about where it seems to be headed?

Timesharing used to be simple. You bought a week and then you used it yourself, rented it to someone, or traded it for another week. Then the industry decided to complicate it. They decided to sell points instead, and then let you use them for a lot of different things. If you started in Weeks you have to pay a hefty sum to convert to Points.

Then again, a lot of timesharing has to do with paying someone money--Buying it in the first place, annual maintenance fees, exchange company membership fee, exchange fees, special assessments, and nickel and diming, which has turned into $50 and $100ing with some resorts, charging for things they say are not included in the annual fee. Some resorts even charge you when you sell your week. They get you on the way in and on the way out!

Don't even get me started on Trading Power! It is one of the deep dark secrets that no one is allowed to know anything about.

Also please elaborate on your difficulties selling in the past. It seems to be a buyers market these days. How long was

your Orlando place on the market? Get a fair price?

If you buy from a developer, in most cases the value drops drastically as soon as you drive it off the lot. The industry tells you they increase in value, because they keep increasing their selling price, but a huge percentage, perhaps half, goes to marketing costs.

So, buy resale. The timeshare we bought for $5000 retail in 1999 fetched $500 when we sold it about three years ago. Another one we paid the same for we had to give to charity. We got $500 for two weeks we bought resale for $1500, so that wasn't so bad.

Never pay anyone an upfront fee to sell your timeshare, unless you just want to give that money away.

Typical weeks cost $20,000 or $30,000, and I've seen them as high as $100,000. Retail. Timeshares can be picked up free or for very little cost either on the Internet or from association. We have weeks we paid $300, $750 and $1500 for, and they do the same thing as weeks others paid $25000 for.

Anymore you can rent from an owner just trying to recoup their annual fee about as easy as you can buy. Just google something like Orlando timeshare rentals.

My recommendation: Buy in an established, sold-out resort in a popular destination, somewhere you wouldn't mind going every year. The resale market more closer represents a true market value. Many of those resorts have their own resale programs and weeks transfer by word-of-mouth to other owners or their friends. SW Florida is a good example and I could go on about the resorts there for hours.

My biggest gripe is that the exchange companies have as much as breached the faith owners had with them. Most of us were told that timesharing is a closed system, that we paid decent money to be able to get into better resorts not available to the public. Now the exchange companies rent to the public. Owners deposit weeks assuming other owners will get them, but that is no longer the case. It seems to have become a vicious circle--because an owner can;t get the exchange they want, they stop depositing what they own, which means someone can't get the week that owner used to deposit, so another owner stops depositing, and so on.

We have stayed in the same condo the same week so often that when that owner stopped depositing, we lost a vacation we had grown to count on. Week 2, unit 307 at Bonita Resort and Club. We tyreid to buy it but missed it by a day.

I have studied availability in SW Florida by searching for January almost every day for the last ten years. I have documented the results since 2002. In 2004, searching for 2006, availability started declining, as it has never recovered. It is the nicer resorts that are no longer available, for whatever reason. I have compared notes on the Internet with hundreds of other owners and we haven't come up with the answer.

There is a classaction suit against the major exchange company right now also trying to come with the answer. If anyone wants to discuss things more, catch me on the Florida or Central Boards at www.timeshareforums.com

You're still timesharing, so it can't be all bad. What's the best part? Exchanges? Where have you gone over the years on Exchange vacations?

Yeah, exchanges is why we bought. We used to combine four weeks a year with business--Florida in January, Estes Park in June and Ohio in August. We have probably vacationed close to 30 weeks in Florida. We've gone to Kauai, Southern California, to the lakes when we lived in Blue Springs, Texas, Key West, Nashville, etc. This coming January we are going to Grand Cayman and Siesta Key in Florida and in January, 2009, we have already booked Sanibel Island and Manasota Key in Florida.

We share our vacations with extended family and some longtime friends. When we lived in Blue Springs we took a neighbor that we tailgated with at Chiefs games to a game in San Diego and stayed on the beach in a timeshare in Carlsbad.

We have also met hundreds of other owners. First at the resorts we have visited and then from being on timeshare forums we have a lot of people visit us on Table Rock Lake when they visit Branson. We have met some of our closest friends timesharing.

What advice do you have for someone thinking about getting into timeshare?

I hope you can take a few minutes and address these questions for the story. I would very helpful..

Regards,

Rick Alm
Gambling & Tourism Writer
The Kansas City Star

Art · 06-24-2007, 08:41 PM

That's why I take any - pro or con - newspaper article about timesharing with a grain of salt.

Art

JLB · 06-25-2007, 12:09 AM

This went to the writer and about a dozen of his editors/bosses, along with a copy of the email sent to the writer so they can see the liberties he took:

Rick:

You certainly took license editing my comments. You used my statements out of context and rearranged my words to fit your needs.

It changed the meaning of some of them. I feel like I got blindsided and you used me to give credence to your own slant.

Compare what you wrote to the email I sent you.

I'm disappointed that the Star would allow it and I have posted the actual comments I sent you on one of the Internet TS forums I frequent. I will probably do so on the other one also, if a mention is made of your article.

opkansas · 06-25-2007, 01:26 AM

I will try to set this person straight.

Originally posted by JLB View Post

This went to the writer and about a dozen of his editors/bosses, along with a copy of the email sent to the writer so they can see the liberties he took:

Rick:

You certainly took license editing my comments. You used my statements out of context and rearranged my words to fit your needs.

It changed the meaning of some of them. I feel like I got blindsided and you used me to give credence to your own slant.

Compare what you wrote to the email I sent you.

I'm disappointed that the Star would allow it and I have posted the actual comments I sent you on one of the Internet TS forums I frequent. I will probably do so on the other one also, if a mention is made of your article.

I saw the srticle this AM and just now was going to post the thread but saw that it was already posted. ( www.kansascity.com | 06/23/2007 | Time to share? Buyer beware ) I do not have time tonight (family reunion) to answer some of this guy's "errors" but I will tomorrow. HIS EMAIL ADDRESS IS ralm@kcstar.com. I would like Timeshare Forum members to make their comments in this thread and by email to this person. I will personally follow-up on this "reporters" article and do my best to get an addendum (corrections) posted by the KC Star.

riverdees05 · 06-25-2007, 09:15 AM

I have been in the paper once and one of my daughters has been in once and both times the writer and/or editor took what they had and twisted it to meet their objective in the story. Never again will I do any kind of interview for a paper that I don't have the right to review and approve.

dougp26364 · 06-25-2007, 11:13 AM

Originally posted by opkansas View Post

I saw the srticle this AM and just now was going to post the thread but saw that it was already posted. ( www.kansascity.com | 06/23/2007 | Time to share? Buyer beware ) I do not have time tonight (family reunion) to answer some of this guy's "errors" but I will tomorrow. HIS EMAIL ADDRESS IS ralm@kcstar.com. I would like Timeshare Forum members to make their comments in this thread and by email to this person. I will personally follow-up on this "reporters" article and do my best to get an addendum (corrections) posted by the KC Star.

I had thought about writing but, once the article is out it's like trying to get the cows back into the barn. It just doesn't happen. Sure they might post a partial retraction but it will be such a small notice that it will go unnoticed.

Personally, I don't care much what some other people think. I believe there will always be more people who fail to see the value in timeshare than those of us that see and get the value out of the timeshares we own. Personally I can think of no better way to travel.

Sure it's not the cheapest but neither are first class seats on the airlines. If one desires to travel in a little more style than what's offered by a hotel room then there's nothing wrong with that. Yes it cost more but we get more out of our vacations than we ever did in the past or thought possible.

As for me I think I'll just choose to ignore the article and always keep in mind that newpapers or news programs do more than just report the news.....they sometimes try to make the news.

JLB · 06-25-2007, 11:21 AM

I would post email links for the editors, etc., but about this time 3 years ago I posted an email address on another forum, not knowing that that is a bad thing to do on the Internet because of harvesting for Spam. That is when I found out that it is a bad thing to do. (In reality, I am not as sophisticated, worldly, and mean-spirited as others sometimes give me credit for).

As I have learned recently from a Mediator/Personal Relationship Counselor (mot just me, but something just about everyone could use), such assumptions of bad intentions by another person or prognostications of a future bad result is referred to as awfulling. Referring to past bad experiences, even if they are fact, is also awfulling. Perhaps I am just an awful awfuller.

For some reason I do not have my History for yesterday, so cannot post a link to the online staff directory for the Star.

If anyone is interested enough to go to the bother of finding it, it is available by using the posted link to the article as a starting point, then guessing who might be in management above this writer.

JLB · 06-25-2007, 11:29 AM

I agree that those who are in control are in control. In this case, those in control of the news reporting business are in control of the news reporting business.

Retractions seldom accomplish what the person requesting the retraction intended. I'm picturing this one would go something like, "So and so did not say what he said the way we said he said it," without every putting things into context.

Nor, likely, do many care anyway.

Oops, there I go awfulling again. It's so easy to do, isn't it? Count how many times you here or awfulling during just one day.

JLB · 06-25-2007, 11:52 AM

Rick:

I would not expect you to say anything different.

If those who oversee your work compare what I told you and how you used it, and cannot see what you did, they are free to contact me for an explanation.

A major portion of what I told you was about our extremely positive timeshare experience, and I gave advice on how others can have the same positive experience, avoiding the pitfalls. You totally ignored comments that would benefit your readers, I believe because of your preconceived bias.

Frankly, you buttered me up with our friendly banter about Blue Springs. You even threw in church. Then you toasted me with your bias.

Those who are following this on the forum, which isn't many (to your benefit), certainly can see how you used me.
- - - - - -
In a message dated 6/25/07 8:58:11 AM Central Daylight Time, ralm@ writes:

6-25-07

Good Morning Jim,

I regret that you were disappointed in how your comments were used in Sunday's time-share article. I could not publish your comments in total, but I don't think the quotes that were selected were taken out of context. Your critical observations based on your own experiences seemed to reflect many of the same criticisms of time-share that I encounted in my research on the industry. You also offered solid advice on renting others' time-share to find bargains. After re-reading the published story this morning, I don't understand where you think I went wrong.

Regards,

Rick Alm
Gambling & Tourism Writer
The Kansas City Star
1729 Grand Blvd.
Kansas City, MO 64108
(816) 234-4785 voice
(816) 234-4346 fax

JLB · 06-25-2007, 12:19 PM

Jim,

I guess we can agree to disagree. But please do not think I was "buttering" you up, nor that I wrote with any preconcieved bias. I knew very little about time-share when I started working on the story. What I found was a complex industry that offers unique opportunities for consumers, but also many pitfalls that can trip up the unwary. That's the story I tried to write.

Regards,

Rick Alm

- - - - - - -

His source is telling him he was misquoted, and used. Who would know better?

Jya-Ning · 06-25-2007, 09:57 PM

But beware. Booking a week’s vacation at a bargain price, but sight unseen, is risky business.

Beasley said he had done it plenty of times.

“Time-shares can be picked up for very little cost either on the Internet or from homeowners associations,” he said. “We have weeks we paid $300, $750 and $1,500 … from an owner just trying to recoup their annual maintenance fee.”

Interesting, if he changes "booking" to "buying" I will believe he quotes you correctly. In fact, when I first read it, I thought it is buying.

Also interesting he lists 2 companies that charges to get rid of TS even after point to a thread that discuss one of the company in detail.

He may know little with TS to start with, but either him or the editor has a certain goal to achieve to write this article. So, that will bound his learning.

Jya-Ning

JLB · 06-25-2007, 11:26 PM

If I started the critique I would be here way longer than it is worth. I don't believe there is a quote he left intact with the information that immediately preceded or followed it.

Well, what the heck, just to save everyone the time of comparing what I said and what he said I said . . .

***I did not say I rent weeks from owners. The $300, $750, and $1500 quote came from the section where I was talking about the weeks we own:

Typical weeks cost $20,000 or $30,000, and I've seen them as high as $100,000. Retail. Timeshares can be picked up free or for very little cost either on the Internet or from association. We have weeks we paid $300, $750 and $1500 for, and they do the same thing as weeks others paid $25000 for.

became

•Instead of buying, you might take advantage of those public rental policies or rent directly from an owner or independent booking service.

But beware. Booking a week’s vacation at a bargain price, but sight unseen, is risky business.

Beasley said he had done it plenty of times.

“Time-shares can be picked up for very little cost either on the Internet or from homeowners associations,” he said. “We have weeks we paid $300, $750 and $1,500 … from an owner just trying to recoup their annual maintenance fee.”

In fact, I have never rented a week from an owner, but the writer said, "Beasley said he had done it plenty of times." That was totally manufactured by the writer.

All I said about renting weeks is:

Anymore you can rent from an owner just trying to recoup their annual fee about as easy as you can buy. Just google something like Orlando timeshare rentals.

He just dragged something I said and dropped it wherever he wanted.

***Timesharing used to be simple. You bought a week and then you used it yourself, rented it to someone, or traded it for another week. Then the industry decided to complicate it. They decided to sell points instead, and then let you use them for a lot of different things. If you started in Weeks you have to pay a hefty sum to convert to Points.

Then again, a lot of timesharing has to do with paying someone money--Buying it in the first place, annual maintenance fees, exchange company membership fee, exchange fees, special assessments, and nickel and diming, which has turned into $50 and $100ing with some resorts, charging for things they say are not included in the annual fee. Some resorts even charge you when you sell your week. They get you on the way in and on the way out!

became

“Time-sharing used to be simple,” said Jim Beasley, a former Blue Springs resident and veteran time-share owner who moved to the Branson area a few years ago.

Today, he said, “time-sharing has to do with paying someone money — buying it in the first place, annual maintenance fees, exchange company membership fee, exchange fees, special assessments and nickel-and-diming — which has turned into $50 and $100.”

“Some resorts even charge you when you sell your week. They get you on the way in and on the way out.”

He skipped the point I was making and went right to all the fees. That is not what I said or what I meant.

***None of the advice I gave about buying was mentioned and none of my positive comments.

mshatty · 06-25-2007, 11:41 PM

Originally posted by JLB

. . .
***None of the advice I gave about buying was mentioned and none of my positive comments.

That's because it didn't fit the news he wanted to manufacture.

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