Smuggler's Notch: resale vs. sales office

[slappy_dunbar Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close slappy_dunbar]

I am trying to get a handle on the timeshare purchase realities of this resort. I have done the 90 minute sales presentation and have heard all about the RCI points system. What confuses me, though, is how the resort treats new owners who purchased through a resale independent of the resort. According to them, such a sale would be obliged to pay the resort a "marketing fee" equivalent to 20 percent of the sales price. In addition, I get the impression that the "owner benefits" associated with that unit are non-transferable, which means no access to the facilities, no children's camp, etc.

I have seached this forum and have found some vague references to Smuggler's Notch handling things differently, but no specifics as to how. So I have some specific questions for anybody who's willing to pass on the answers:

When a purchase transaction of a deeded timeshare is done independent of the resort, is it true that the new owner will be barred from the resort's amenities?

If so, is there a way to resolve this?

What obligation does a new TS owner have to pay this 20 percent fee? What do you get in return?

If the unit is RCI-weeks, what does it involve getting it converted to points? A $3000 fee from the resort? Is it worth that?

Thank you to anyone who can offer some insights.

[Bill4728 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Bill4728]

LIES, LIES and damm LIES!!

There are a few things which you may lose when you buy a TS resale, but in general the massive extra costs of buying from the TS developer are just that massive extra costs.

I can't answer any direct questions about Smuggler's Notch but likely the cost to buy from the developer not worth the extra cost.

[3kids4me Super Moderator and Super Mom Find all posts View Profile Close 3kids4me]

Actually, Smuggs is a little different.

If you've taken a tour there and want to buy resale, you must buy through the resort (still from a previous owner, but the resort brokers and takes a huge 20% commission) to get the benefits package. The benefits package is a huge benefit that can be worth thousands, as it provides free lift tickets, free summer camps, and other things as well. While I can't quantify it totally, I do know that exchangers have to pay $50 per child per day for the summer camps (I'm a summer owner so I know more about that season). Since the benefits package isn't part of your ownership and does expire in 20 years...it's non-transferable from another owner.

If you have not been on a tour there, I believe there is still a "loophole" where you can buy resale from another owner and have the remaining years of their package transferred to you. I'm not sure why Smuggs hasn't closed that loophole.

If you buy resale and don't get the benefits package, you wouldn't be "barred from the resort's amenities"...you just have to pay for them, and that can get pricey if you're paying for kids to go to camp or, I assume, paying for lift tickets. I suppose if you find a good enough deal then it may be worth it.

We bought resale brokered by the resort, so we did get the benefits package. We bought from a very motivated seller, so we got an excellent price, even though we also had to pay the 20% commission. There are quite a few resales out there...obviously Smuggs doesn't push them the way they push their new construction. If you find a motivated seller, perhaps you can agree that the seller pay the commisssion or that you split it. The problem is, of course, that the units in general are expensive, and so it's unlikely that even the most motivated seller will allow you to buy for a price that is similar to some of the cheaper timeshares out there.

Sharon

P.S. We are weeks owners and do not plan on converting to points.

[slappy_dunbar Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close slappy_dunbar]

Sharon --

Thanks for the informative reply. Sadly, I'm still confused. As you say in your post, the benefits packages aren't transferrable, but that they are transferrable if you've never visited the resort. Sheesh.

I'll call the resort and simply ask them how they'd treat me as a new owner through a resale not brokered by them. We'll see how mendacious they can be.

[wackymother Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close wackymother]

Please post and let us know what they say. Thanks!

[3kids4me Super Moderator and Super Mom Find all posts View Profile Close 3kids4me]

While I don't agree with many of Smuggs' policies, I can certainly see why they have them in place. When they stopped allowing people to rent their units with the benefits intact, many owners got angry because they felt they owned those benefits along with their unit. The problem is that Smuggs has a very active rental business, and they probably felt they were losing money to timeshare owners who were renting their units (which are much nicer than the rental units...the rental units are in the fully owned building which are more dated).

At any rate, my point was that while I do love being at the resort, and I don't agree with certain policies they have, I don't think I would necessarily call them mendacious. They are pretty upfront about what they will and will not allow when asked, I think. However, how upfront they are in terms of offering up the resales available (versus trying to push the new construction) does seem to depend on the salesperson you get. Our salesperson did not offer up resales back in 2000 when we bought (however I did my own research and was able to ask about them), but I hear now she does right away...at least to the folks I refer to her! (Perhaps she knows that if she doesn't offer it, I'll tell them and that won't make Smuggs look too good...I don't know.) She also seems to be good at negotiating with the seller to get a good price.

I will also be curious to know how much they would charge you to buy the benefits package if you buy a unit from outside the resort. (But really, the package would probably cost you more than the 20% commission...so in the end you may as well just let them broker it.) Actually, I wonder if they even let you buy a benefits package at all in that case, and if not, how much your charge would be for various things like the kids' camps.

Other than whatever charges they do or do not make you pay, I don't think you'll find that there is any different treatment from the resort itself...it's not as if you can get reassigned to a different unit during your week (as I hear happens at other resorts), as you always own your exact unit.

Sharon

[slappy_dunbar Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close slappy_dunbar]

Sharon

Thanks for taking the time to add that posting. I have since clarified much of the earlier confusion. I did this by contacting the person on the Smuggler's staff who specializes in resales. After a couple of minutes' conversation I was better informed than I had been after two lengthy face to face meetings with another staffer there. What it boils down to is a sale can be transacted separately from the Smuggler's offices, however it will be subject to that 20% marketing fee and the new buyer will have to pay $1000 per benefit. I assume it's possible to avoid both costs and simply pay for all amenities per use, but I suppose it's also possible that they wouldn't even accept a booking by the new owners until they get their fee.

It is true that they will offer up resales to buyers who request them. However, from our experience it's pretty evident that they are tightly controlling of that process. They refused our request for a listing of available units, citing privacy. When they offered a unit "customized to our needs" it was the only one offered, despite the fact that they have others which would have been equally or more suitable. Why withhold some while promoting one in particular? I've got some guesses. That's why I invoked "mendacity". They're not upfront, and stupidly, because a little time on the internet exposes this.

[3kids4me Super Moderator and Super Mom Find all posts View Profile Close 3kids4me]

What it boils down to is a sale can be transacted separately from the Smuggler's offices, however it will be subject to that 20% marketing fee and the new buyer will have to pay $1000 per benefit.

Can't you just have Smuggs broker the deal for the 20% commission (which you could pay rather than the seller, I guess), and then the benefits from the previous owner will transfer to you? Why would you also have to pay for them...unless the previous owners' 20 year benefits contract has run out?

When we bought our resale, Smuggs brokered the deal, I assume took the 20% from the seller, and then gave us a new benefits package (20 years). I know that they stopped doing that, but the new thing was that the previous owner's benefits (however many years they have left) would then transfer to you. Has this changed as well?

Sharon

[slappy_dunbar Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close slappy_dunbar]

Sharon

It's not so easy to tell what portion of the purchase price is going to the seller versus to Smuggler's Notch for commissions and benefits. I suppose if I wanted to draft an offer then it would become apparent, but I was told that we would be obligated for $1000 per benefit we wished to have, calling it a tax and therefore non-negotiable. Furthermore, they add another $2995 charge - a service fee, really - for conversion into RCI points. So the notes taken by the sales person showed a roughly $10K deduction off the sales price by Smuggler's for the seller's net. This covered the "service fee" and 7 persons' benefits. When I asked about the 20 percent charge, they said the owner would be responsible for paying it.

[3kids4me Super Moderator and Super Mom Find all posts View Profile Close 3kids4me]

I don't get why they are charging you for the benefits package if you buy through them. They didn't used to do that. A lot of owners who are trying to sell their units would be awfully unhappy to hear that, as in the past, the remaining years of benefits would transfer. At any rate, you could just factor in that cost to your offer to the owner...subtract that amount of money from the offer and make sure Smuggs explains why you are doing that.

And...are you obligated to convert to points? You shouldn't have to convert if the previous owner hasn't. (Smuggs just recently moved to points but we didn't convert; you could always do it in the future if you found weeks wasn't working for you.)

Sharon

[3kids4me Super Moderator and Super Mom Find all posts View Profile Close 3kids4me]

Well I've confirmed that they do indeed charge resale buyers for the benefits packages now, so I would just adjust your offer to reflect that.

If they don't require you to convert to points (obviously the previous owner hadn't) then I wouldn't...see how it pans out and you can always convert later.

Sharon