Power of Attorney for Florida- Real Property

[snowman Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close snowman]

I am in the process of selling two timeshares, located in Florida, and have been informed by the closing company that my Power of Attorney from Illinois does not meet the Florida guidelines. Apparently, the POA document needs two witnesses and must include some other information. I tried to use google and find a document but was not successful. I dont want to pay an attorney for a new document unless I have too. Does anyone have a document that I can use?

Thanks in Advance for your help,
Snowman

[BocaBum99 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close BocaBum99]

Florida does NOT require a POA to be witnessed. It does need to be acknowledged which means it is notarized. Not sure where you got that rule.

[jfitz Member Find all posts View Profile Close jfitz]

Florida does NOT require a POA to be witnessed. It does need to be acknowledged which means it is notarized. Not sure where you got that rule.

My understanding is that it is just the opposite; a Florida POA used for the conveyance of real property must be signed by two witnesses but does not require notarization. The applicable statutes can be found here and here. The closing company should be able to provide a sample document which meets the requirements.

[tonyg Goomba & Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close tonyg]

I sold a Florida timeshare and all that was required was notorized paperwork.

[BocaBum99 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close BocaBum99]

My understanding is that it is just the opposite; a Florida POA used for the conveyance of real property must be signed by two witnesses but does not require notarization. The applicable statutes can be found here and here. The closing company should be able to provide a sample document which meets the requirements.

I will double check with my real estate attorney, but I do not think that is correct.

It is true that the Grantor needs to sign and have the ownership witnessed in order to transfer real property. But, the Grantor can be the person with the POA (i.e. the Attorney-in-fact).

To grant someone POA on your behalf, you only need to sign and notarize a document granting that POA to prove that the person who signs on behalf of the grantor is an Attorney in fact for that specific transaction.

If you look at the forms provided for a principal/affiant to give power of attorney to another party, you will see that there is a signature line for the notary, but not one for witnesses.

See sample forms for granting Power of Attorney to another party

[BocaBum99 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close BocaBum99]

I just realized that we may be talking past each other in this thread.

Let me clarify. To use power of attorney to title transfer of real estate in the State of Florida, there are at least 2 documents involved. Let's just keep it simple by focusing on the document granting POA and the Deed which conveys legal title to a property.

1) A document where an owner (i.e. Principal) grants Limited Power of Attorney (i.e. Attorny-in-fact) to a competent third party to sign a specific set of documents on their behalf. That document needs to be signed and notarized. It does not need to be witnessed or recorded.

2) A deed conveying legal title from a Grantor (owner) to Grantee (buyer). That document can be signed by the Attorney-in-fact on behalf of the owner due to the limited power of attorney they were granted by the owner. That deed needs to be signed and witnessed by two parties. In addition, actual or constructive notice needs to be given to the public to declare that it has been transferred.

Constructive notice is the act of recording a deed. Actual notice is going into the public square and screaming the fact that you just sold your property to someone. I have heard that this happens quite often when someone sells their timeshare after listing it for 4 years with an upfront fee company. lol.

[jfitz Member Find all posts View Profile Close jfitz]

My comment is based on the following language found in your link as well as the ones I provided in my prior post:
The durable power of attorney must be in writing, must be executed with the same formalities required for the conveyance of real property by Florida law.
Those formalities are found in the other link in my original post, namely:
shall be assigned or surrendered unless it be by instrument signed in the presence of two subscribing witnesses by the party so assigning or surrendering, or by the party's agent there unto lawfully authorized, or by the act and operation of law. No seal shall be necessary to give validity to any instrument executed in conformity with this section.

The conveyance of ownership document (deed) requires the signatures of two witnesses and does not require a seal (notary). The POA must, at a minimum, meet the same standard (formalities) of two witnesses. Personally, I would get both the witnesses and notarization and cover all bases.

[BocaBum99 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close BocaBum99]

My comment is based on the following language found in your link as well as the ones I provided in my prior post:
The durable power of attorney must be in writing, must be executed with the same formalities required for the conveyance of real property by Florida law.
Those formalities are found in the other link in my original post, namely:
shall be assigned or surrendered unless it be by instrument signed in the presence of two subscribing witnesses by the party so assigning or surrendering, or by the party's agent there unto lawfully authorized, or by the act and operation of law. No seal shall be necessary to give validity to any instrument executed in conformity with this section.

The conveyance of ownership document (deed) requires the signatures of two witnesses and does not require a seal (notary). The POA must, at a minimum, meet the same standard (formalities) of two witnesses. Personally, I would get both the witnesses and notarization and cover all bases.

Exactly. The POA must sign the documents for transfer of title exactly as if they were the owner. The deed needs to be signed, witnessed and notarized. And then actual or constructive notice (recording) needs to be given.

The document granting POA to the attorney-in-fact does NOT need to be witnessed.

If you are going to cover all bases that isn't a bad idea. But, you should also then provide a photo id and a tax identification like a social security number because some title companies, such as Resort Title Agency, requires it to transfer the ownership.

There is a definite distinction between what is required by law, what is required by the closing company and what isn't enforced by the closing company. The differences in how each company operates makes for the confusion.

[BocaBum99 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close BocaBum99]

By the way, I believe the original poster asked if we could provide him with forms for granting POA to another party.

One of the links above provides several forms. You probably don't want durable POA. You probably want limited POA for a specific transaction.

Notice there is no signature line for witnesses.

[BocaBum99 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close BocaBum99]

Here are the requirements that one of my title companies have published for a POA. That company is licensed and bonded in Florida. The requirements are dated 10/31/07:

1) Dated
2) Properly Acknowledged – all parties mentioned have signed
3) Name of Principal
4) Principal (s) address
5) Specify the property
6) Week
7) Unit
8) Properly notarized, including seal and/or notary stamp
9) Photo ID for principal

Notice the lack of requirement for a witness. This is the closest I can get to knowing the legal requirements without verifying it with an attorney.

[jfitz Member Find all posts View Profile Close jfitz]

Exactly. The POA must sign the documents for transfer of title exactly as if they were the owner. The deed needs to be signed, witnessed and notarized.

Read my post again; No seal shall be necessary. The seal in question is, I believe, that of a notary. As a practical matter, regardless of the statute language, companies involved in the process are going to require notarization as it makes their burden of proof easier in the event of a challenge.

The document granting POA to the attorney-in-fact does NOT need to be witnessed.

The document granting POA must must be executed with the same formalities required for the conveyance of real property by Florida law . Those formalities being that the POA is signed in the presence of two subscribing witnesses.

Your Title Company obviously has additional requirements, the photo ID is an interesting twist, but, IMO, they have missed the boat on the two witness signature requirement. Differences of interpretation are, of course, why we have courts and lawyers.

[BocaBum99 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close BocaBum99]

My Florida Real Estate attorney just told me that it is "better" to have it witnessed. This was his answer to my direct question of whether or not it is MANDATORY to have it witnessed. Obviously, there is some gray area here.

The fact that the Florida Statutes forms do not require it and at least one Florida Title company doesn't require it supports this notion.

[BocaBum99 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close BocaBum99]

The document granting POA must must be executed with the same formalities required for the conveyance of real property by Florida law . Those formalities being that the POA is signed in the presence of two subscribing witnesses.

I would like to verify that you interpreted the quote correctly. You added "The document granting POA" and then you added the quote. Can you provide the entire paragraph you are quoting so I can see it?

If the Florida statute says "The POA must be executed with the same formalities for the conveyance of real property by Florida law." Then, I submit that the POA is the act of exercising POA and not the document granting POA.

I would like to verify that it is referring to the document granting POA instead of the act of exercising POA itself.

I want to know because I am working on a donation program and I want to make sure that the POA is legally and sufficiently prepared. Well, it doesn't matter now anyway since my attorney is recommending it.

[BocaBum99 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close BocaBum99]

I found a Florida Limited Power of Attorney document specifically to be used with Real Estate. The cost is $10.

It does have a spot for 2 witnesses. Given this discussion, I would recommend it. Interestingly, if you look at the instructions on the document. It specifically states that the form must be notarized and "although not always required" recommends witnessing.

Here is the link: Florida Limited POA for Real Estate

[snowman Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close snowman]

The closing company that I am using is Timesharetransfer.com. Per the closing rep, the POA needs to have 2 witness signatures, be notorized, and state "Real Property".

The Illinois POA that I had did not have the 2 witnesses or state Real Property. I found a POA on the internet that met the standard, completed it, and sent it to the closing company this morning. I have not heard back, but assume it meets the requirements. If it doesn't work, I will pay the $10 and get the one refered to by BocaBum99

I will do what ever the closing company says to complete the sale.

Thanks for the help.

Snowman