Will I make it out alive?

[charlie_m Member Find all posts View Profile Close charlie_m]

But many here have had personal experience with TS salepeople not being truthful to them - and I hope you are able to believe that.

Well I do believe that, seen it happen. The closers are the worst. They're the ones who make or break a deal, piss off and insult the client, AND make the salesperson fear for his/her job. They keep score. Closing %, sales volume per customer are what they look at. Reality is the salespeople are really at their mercy. And some suck so badly they have to take a train just to get back to suck.

[tonyg Goomba & Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close tonyg]

Yeah I do. There's ethical issues in most jobs, maybe even yours. Let me ask you, what do you do for a living?
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Check my profile.

[timeos2 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close timeos2]

Sure we love you but only if you buy

Well unfortunately, if 2 owners are trying to get a hard to get reservation like LV on NYE, the resort manager will always bend over backwards to help out an owner who bought on tour. Seen it happen. Is it wrong? Can't be the judge, but it is what it is.

No resort manager that isn't working for the Developer/management company would ever do that. One of the big problems in timeshares is the developer hanging around as management long after they should be gone. If they are still there after 5-8 years the owners aren't #1 at that resort and had best look out. And make a management change ASAP.

[charlie_m Member Find all posts View Profile Close charlie_m]

Check my profile

According to Wilkopedia, Ichthyology (from Greek: ἰχθυ, ikhthu, "fish"; and λόγος, logos, "knowledge") is the branch of zoology devoted to the study of fish. This includes skeletal fish (Osteichthyes), cartilaginous fish (Chondrichthyes), and jawless fish (Agnatha). An estimated 25,000 fish species exist, comprising a majority of vertebrates. While a majority of species have probably been discovered and described, approximately 250 new species are officially described by science each year.

The practice of ichthyology is associated with marine biology and limnology.
And so on....

A scientist. So you're not in a business and you don't really sell. You spend your time in a lab coat doing experiments I guess. I surely don't have a clue. So ethics isn't part of your profession. Good. Puts you in a holier than thou mode to rag on those you feel are beneath you. And you make a salary. Same money week in and week out. No incentive to excel. Your work is so important one has to google it to even learn what it is. And you judge salespeople who live on their wits.

[charlie_m Member Find all posts View Profile Close charlie_m]

No resort manager that isn't working for the Developer/management company would ever do that. One of the big problems in timeshares is the developer hanging around as management long after they should be gone. If they are still there after 5-8 years the owners aren't #1 at that resort and had best look out. And make a management change ASAP.

You are so wrong all over yourself; people get favors all the time. Size of purchase is the measure of discounts, room reservation requests, check in/ out, and more. Example, at a small boutique timeshare in LV, a woman who owns the most points is called when she's on property and when she went to the brand new resort, she was given the penthouse reserved for the owner (company is private). I can assure you that management is going nowhere so long as the high end owners are happy and more high end sales are made.

Make sense?

So who is Paul and what's he trying to find out?

[janapur Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close janapur]

No resort manager that isn't working for the Developer/management company would ever do that. One of the big problems in timeshares is the developer hanging around as management long after they should be gone. If they are still there after 5-8 years the owners aren't #1 at that resort and had best look out. And make a management change ASAP.

You are so wrong all over yourself; people get favors all the time. Size of purchase is the measure of discounts, room reservation requests, check in/ out, and more. Example, at a small boutique timeshare in LV, a woman who owns the most points is called when she's on property and when she went to the brand new resort, she was given the penthouse reserved for the owner (company is private). I can assure you that management is going nowhere so long as the high end owners are happy and more high end sales are made.

Make sense?

So who is Paul and what's he trying to find out?

OK , now you're saying that size does matter. However, the disagreement was with regard to developer vs. resale purchase. No reservationist at any place I own will know or care whether I purchased resale unless I bring it to their attention. It's absurd to think that they would know this info form my member ID number. The two resorts at which I am a board member would find this discussion rediculous.

Do you think maybe they upgraded the highest point owner in hopes of selling her more points? Points is a quantity issue and should really not pertain to whether she purchased from the developer, unless the developer is making her reservation. Not good.

To be clear, we LOVE timeshares, hence the forum. It's the tactics of SOME salespeople we frown upon.

By my ts portfolio, 90% above resale value is accurate. I know that Disney and Marriott are exceptions, as well as a few others I'm sure.

I will say I am amazed by your guts in offending a Super Moderator. I believe that most of us here, though not ts salespeople, know an awful lot about the industry. Some would call this an obsession or addiction. I have been told by several salespeople (never the closer) that I know more than they do. My knowledge is a drop in the bucket compared to the wisdom and guidance on this forum.

[tonyg Goomba & Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close tonyg]

John knows what he is talking about since he has been on an HOA board and has been involved in effecting a management change at a timeshare. In this area of expertise, your credentials are in question.

:

You are so wrong all over yourself; people get favors all the time. Size of purchase is the measure of discounts, room reservation requests, check in/ out, and more. Example, at a small boutique timeshare in LV, a woman who owns the most points is called when she's on property and when she went to the brand new resort, she was given the penthouse reserved for the owner (company is private). I can assure you that management is going nowhere so long as the high end owners are happy and more high end sales are made.

Make sense?

So who is Paul and what's he trying to find out?

And a bit young too.

[tonyg Goomba & Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close tonyg]

In my many jobs along the way of life, I once was a salesman. So I can look at this occupation from both sides and my view from the inside told me that most were in the business to make a quick buck and would do anything to do so. I often see the same thing from the other side now whenever I run into timeshare salesmen.

Check my profile

According to Wilkopedia, Ichthyology (from Greek: ἰχθυ, ikhthu, "fish"; and λόγος, logos, "knowledge") is the branch of zoology devoted to the study of fish. This includes skeletal fish (Osteichthyes), cartilaginous fish (Chondrichthyes), and jawless fish (Agnatha). An estimated 25,000 fish species exist, comprising a majority of vertebrates. While a majority of species have probably been discovered and described, approximately 250 new species are officially described by science each year.

The practice of ichthyology is associated with marine biology and limnology.
And so on....

A scientist. So you're not in a business and you don't really sell. You spend your time in a lab coat doing experiments I guess. I surely don't have a clue. So ethics isn't part of your profession. Good. Puts you in a holier than thou mode to rag on those you feel are beneath you. And you make a salary. Same money week in and week out. No incentive to excel. Your work is so important one has to google it to even learn what it is. And you judge salespeople who live on their wits.

[buff Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close buff]

Has anyone ever stopped by the timeshare sales locations and watch and listen to sales team prior to the frenzy.

Sometimes if I'm at a property I sit and observe. You can get a pretty good handle on the attitudes of the sales team and especially the manager.

Many of the hired guns attitude is based on the training they receive from management.

I have also witnessed favors being given at a few properties and with the economy being so bad it will continue. When many resorts having seperate check in locations for owners, it changed the whole manner in which favors were given. High rollers get spoiled just like going to a casino to gamble.

Many of us wonder how resorts maintain 5 star ratings and gold crown when exchangers have complained about various issues. When exchange companies visit properties, you don't think favors are given. Do you really think that many of the properties have legitimately earned their designation.

One more point before going to a timeshare presentation have a strategy with your wife or husband. Make sure you both are on the same page. I've had a few salespeople work on my wife because she is such a soft touch.

[JudyS Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close JudyS]

BTW, there are sometimes instances that the sales manager will allow gifting without the tour. Anyone want to know how??

OK, I'm curious about this. When will they do this?

[timeos2 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close timeos2]

Almost every resort would benefit from an independent management

You are so wrong all over yourself; people get favors all the time. Size of purchase is the measure of discounts, room reservation requests, check in/ out, and more. Example, at a small boutique timeshare in LV, a woman who owns the most points is called when she's on property and when she went to the brand new resort, she was given the penthouse reserved for the owner (company is private). I can assure you that management is going nowhere so long as the high end owners are happy and more high end sales are made.

Make sense?

Absolutely. Thats why it very important to boot the Developer from resort management as soon as possible. An independent management would have no idea who bought what, when and each week/owner would get treated the same. As it should be. All owners pay the same. The big buyers have no more pull or rights than the single week owner. They all have one vote per week. It can (and has) been done by many resorts (with far too many to go) and things change for the better in almost every case.

So who is Paul and what's he trying to find out?

Paul Drake. Private Detective extraordinaire. He's hopefully building the case against Wastegate Resorts for consumer fraud, management malfeasance and more.

[Keitht Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Keitht]

1) Not all salespeople are liars. Repeat. NOT ALL SALESPEOPLE ARE LIARS.
2) I am a salesperson. I don't lie. When I sold timeshare I didn't lie.
4) The "bodysnatchers" only snatch bodies that wish to be snatched. Ever consider saying no? Or are you that easy?

CAVEAT EMPTOR.

It's quite probably true that not all timeshare sales people lie, but the perception of those who have attended presentations is that the vast majority at best stretch the truth to breaking point. More problematic is lying by omission where the full story isn't given e.g. the biggest lie of all "You can exchange all over the world with your Blue time in the swamp". The truth is "You may request an exchange anywhere in the world using... , but the probability of that exchange happening this side of h*ll freezing over is nil"
To suggest that the only people who buy (are bodysnatched) are those who want to buy is absolute nonsense. If that was the case there would be no need for sales people. Persuasion, coercion, mind games are all part of the sales armoury.
I tried working in sales when I was younger (not timeshare) and couldn't stick it because even then we were expected to 'persuade' people to buy items they didn't need or want. That line of country obviously suits some, but not me!

[bnoble Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close bnoble]

More problematic is lying by omission where the full story isn't given

I think it's fair to draw a distinction between lies of commission, and lies of omission. It is not the sales person's job to give you the reasons not to buy, and I wouldn't expect someone trying to sell me something would tell me why that something isn't great. Anyone who does expect that is at best naive. The closest I could imagine coming to a discussion of trade power would be if the resort had seasons, and the stronger seasons cost more. Even then, it won't be a bad/good discussion, but a good/better/best one. Sort of how the smallest advertised Starbucks size is "large".

I think the other thing worth thinking about is that the timeshare world is vaguely like the Matrix. Unless you've taken the Red Pill of resale, you have no idea that this entire parallel universe of dimes on the dollar even exists. That state of affairs can't last forever---over time, market information will become more commonly known---but until it does, there will be vast discrepencies in prices paid.

It seems that many of us believe that developers will simply go "poof" when this day of market efficiency arrives. Rather, I suspect that there will be a new equilibrium point established, and that point will be a lot closer to developer pricing than the fire-sale ebay prices we see today.

[charlie_m Member Find all posts View Profile Close charlie_m]

I'll have to check EBay and research the resale market before I'll even comment. However, I sold one of my timeshares last year (Vistana red week #25 Orlando near Disney) for $7K (paid around $10K). I took a loss but over the years did get its use. Even got some bennies from RCI in the form of hotel discounts when my wife and I went to Russia (no timeshares there).

I really had no idea that resales tanked that bad. I now own points with P.M. which I love for the flexibility but trade with II (fewer choices)

All I'm trying to do here is set the record straight about a business I worked in and no longer do, and offer knowledge from a point of view that few have access to. And defend a profession from smearing, even because of a few bad apples.

[charlie_m Member Find all posts View Profile Close charlie_m]

Paul Drake. Private Detective extraordinaire. He's hopefully building the case against Wastegate Resorts for consumer fraud, management malfeasance and more.

I googled Paul Drake and got hits from an equine dentist to an astrophycist to the guy who played detective in "Perry Mason". FYI.