Will I make it out alive?

[GrayFal Silver Contributor and supermoderator Find all posts View Profile Close GrayFal]

OK, it's reality check time for Jana. Ready?

1) Not all salespeople are liars. Repeat. NOT ALL SALESPEOPLE ARE LIARS.
2) I am a salesperson. I don't lie. When I sold timeshare I didn't lie. Your remark is categorically offensive. I would also be curious what you do for a living.....Like if you're a doctor, ever lie or forget to change syringes?
3) And speaking of lying, what exactly would you call sitting in front of a "salesperson" and lying about being there in the first place. (see mooch...)
4) The "bodysnatchers" only snatch bodies that wish to be snatched. Ever consider saying no? Or are you that easy?
5) Lastly, your comment about $300 for 90 minutes proves you're a mooch. You look at this like it's a job. Income. A way to get something for nothing.

CAVEAT EMPTOR.

Charlie, I believe you are coming on a little strong.....

Everyone is entitled to their opinion without name calling.
Unfortunately, many here have had less then positive experiences attending TS presentations - especially as we are aware of the resale market.
Salespeople do lie - but they also tell the truth.

Attending a presentation and not buying is your right - not a lie or a 'mooch'

But calling people a mooch because they accept the money/gift that was offered to attend is not very nice.

I am offended by your remarks to our members.

[tonyg Goomba & Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close tonyg]

OK, it's reality check time for Jana. Ready?

1) Not all salespeople are liars. Repeat. NOT ALL SALESPEOPLE ARE LIARS.

Agreed ! But most timeshare salesmen are.

2) I am a salesperson. I don't lie. When I sold timeshare I didn't lie. Your remark is categorically offensive. I would also be curious what you do for a living.....Like if you're a doctor, ever lie or forget to change syringes?

Maybe, but I bet you never told the whole truth either.

3) And speaking of lying, what exactly would you call sitting in front of a "salesperson" and lying about being there in the first place. (see mooch...)

You are assuming that someone came there to buy- hell man you had to bribe them to get them in there.

4) The "bodysnatchers" only snatch bodies that wish to be snatched. Ever consider saying no? Or are you that easy?

The body snatchers are timeshare salesmen in training. They will tell you anything to make money- like "no obligation"'


5) Lastly, your comment about $300 for 90 minutes proves you're a mooch. You look at this like it's a job. Income. A way to get something for nothing.

So if someone offers you $ 200 an hour to listen to a salespitch it makes you a mooch ? But if you make a few thousand in the same time by misrepresenting something and selling it for 2 to 10 times what it's worth- what do you call that ?

CAVEAT EMPTOR.

Now Caveat Emptor is the real deal here.

[buff Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close buff]

I've enjoyed reading this thread but I think charlie is the real deal, We have had numerous discussions about time share tours over the years.
Hoc know best. Folks want to know which resorts have low pressure sales pitch and the best gifts all the time..We do have mooches out there who hit asm any tours as they can and brag about on the Ts boards.

Most folks never put themselves in the salesman shoes. Charlie passionately did.

I haven't done a timeshare presentation in years. Don't want the gifts nor play games with the salesman

[charlie_m Member Find all posts View Profile Close charlie_m]

So most timeshare sales professionals are liars. And this you know for a fact? And you are assuming that I've lied or never told the whole truth? Man you don't have any idea of what I do or how I do it. Just like I don't know you.

As for "bribing" people to tour, if you read my earlier post, that's just the way it is. You as a consumer, can choose to participate or not. I didn't create the system. The "bodysnatchers" A.K.A. OPC (that's off-premise coordinators) are paid to get the bodies on the bus. That's where the real problem lies. I know for a fact that they will lie, help the prospect lie just to get them to tour. Like making up family income, which is a qualifier to tour. That's because they are paid on volume and spiffed (bonused) if the tour purchases. Thay are not salesmen in training. In Nevada, the OPC does not need a timeshare sales license. You really should research your facts.

I've been in the business and although you may not like what I say, it's a lot more than you know.

You claim that timeshares are sold at 2-10 times what they are worth. So what makes that claim valid? Is it the fact that resales are basically given away on the Internet? The fact is, people either get tired of the HOAs or are in financial straits so they liquidate. Did you know that such timeshare purchasers do not get the same privileges as original owners?

By the way, realtors make typically 3% on the sale of a home. So for a 300K property, that's 9 grand. Yet that doesn't seem to be a problem.

[buff Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close buff]

Here is an interesting thread about timeshare ethics.in 2005 that continued in 2007. Some of our posters in this thread along with other influential posters also commented

http://www.timeshareforums.com/forum...-ethics-2.html


Take it Easy Charlie

[janapur Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close janapur]

OK, it's reality check time for Jana. Ready?

1) Not all salespeople are liars. Repeat. NOT ALL SALESPEOPLE ARE LIARS.
2) I am a salesperson. I don't lie. When I sold timeshare I didn't lie. Your remark is categorically offensive. I would also be curious what you do for a living.....Like if you're a doctor, ever lie or forget to change syringes?
3) And speaking of lying, what exactly would you call sitting in front of a "salesperson" and lying about being there in the first place. (see mooch...)
4) The "bodysnatchers" only snatch bodies that wish to be snatched. Ever consider saying no? Or are you that easy?
5) Lastly, your comment about $300 for 90 minutes proves you're a mooch. You look at this like it's a job. Income. A way to get something for nothing.

CAVEAT EMPTOR.

I truly did not mean to offend you. I am in fact a salesperson. I have always informed our ts salesperson of my career as a real estate broker. However, if I lied about real estate and failed to disclose pertinent information with regard to said real estate or the rights of buyers, I would lose my license. Actually, I believe that I would enjoy selling timeshare. However, I just assumed that the pressures to hit some kind of quota must encourage the actions that give ts salespeople such a negative reputation. I don't know of any other reason why a salesperson would personally promise me that they'd buy it back in a year if I changed my mind, I could rent the week for $2500, it will go up in value, I'll never be able to exchange into this resort again because it's such a difficult trade, I can't rescind on the today only inventory . . .

I did not mean to even imply that ALL salespeople are liars and I am sorry for the possible misunderstanding. I believe we were talking about timeshare presentations, and I stand by my comments with that regard. It doesn't mean I haven't enjoyed the tours of some wonderful resorts or learned about different internal point systems, etc.

I wasn't complaining about the bodysnatchers, rather illustrating how it is the resort reps that encourage, ask, bribe us to attend. I have said no many times, in fact we rarely say yes.

We wouldn't do a tour for money alone. For example, we purchased Mayan Palace resale after touring a property and now pay two annual MFs to the company. I don't think that makes us bad people. I have not lied about "being there in the first place." I am truthful when the salepeople ask how much we paid for our weeks. I will accept the title of mooch, but I prefer to be called invited mooch.


Jana

[timeos2 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close timeos2]

Lies or mis-factions. You be the judge

OK, it's reality check time for Jana. Ready?

1) Not all salespeople are liars. Repeat. NOT ALL SALESPEOPLE ARE LIARS.

OK, maybe you're the one exception? Or don't you count exaggerations? Or maybe you're confused about the facts? Or the resale value? Yup, confused. Thats it!

3) And speaking of lying, what exactly would you call sitting in front of a "salesperson" and lying about being there in the first place. (see mooch...)

I call it doing what we were invited, by the system you choose to work for, to do. We don't lie about it - we said we aren't in the market and we aren't. So prove us wrong or make us want to buy. Thats YOUR job.

4) The "bodysnatchers" only snatch bodies that wish to be snatched. Ever consider saying no? Or are you that easy?

We haven't accepted a body snatcher pitch in over tens years. Every case has been the resort coming to us begging us to listen to an owners update or a fantastic offer or a three night stay for $xx. And all for only 90 minutes. So who's lying again?

5) Lastly, your comment about $300 for 90 minutes proves you're a mooch. You look at this like it's a job. Income. A way to get something for nothing.

CAVEAT EMPTOR.

We take what they offer. Thats the way it works. If you did your job and had a true value - not a 90% markup over resale - to offer we'd buy. Neither happens so we collect our money and laugh. Have a nice day.

[timeos2 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close timeos2]

My house could burn down and not lose 90% value

By the way, realtors make typically 3% on the sale of a home. So for a 300K property, that's 9 grand. Yet that doesn't seem to be a problem.

But the house doesn't lose 90% of its value at resale 7 days after the purchase. Peaches and pears comparison I'm afraid. Earn 3% of the RESALE value and you got my respect. Heck - I'll give you 5%!

[tonyg Goomba & Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close tonyg]

So most timeshare sales professionals are liars. And this you know for a fact? And you are assuming that I've lied or never told the whole truth? Man you don't have any idea of what I do or how I do it. Just like I don't know you.

Experience is a fact.



As for "bribing" people to tour, if you read my earlier post, that's just the way it is. You as a consumer, can choose to participate or not. I didn't create the system. The "bodysnatchers" A.K.A. OPC (that's off-premise coordinators) are paid to get the bodies on the bus. That's where the real problem lies. I know for a fact that they will lie, help the prospect lie just to get them to tour. Like making up family income, which is a qualifier to tour. That's because they are paid on volume and spiffed (bonused) if the tour purchases. Thay are not salesmen in training. In Nevada, the OPC does not need a timeshare sales license. You really should research your facts.

Ok- they are wanna-be timeshare salesmen (like training on their own). Doesn't timeshare begin to sound like a house of lies ?

I've been in the business and although you may not like what I say, it's a lot more than you know.

I know some good people in the business, they are rare - they don't have to say they are honest.

You claim that timeshares are sold at 2-10 times what they are worth. So what makes that claim valid? Is it the fact that resales are basically given away on the Internet? The fact is, people either get tired of the HOAs or are in financial straits so they liquidate. Did you know that such timeshare purchasers do not get the same privileges as original owners?

Since 50 % or more of the sales price is for marketing- the real value is evident. There are a few rare cases where resale purchasers do not get the same privileges as buyers from developers- but some salespeople tell this story when it is not true.

By the way, realtors make typically 3% on the sale of a home. So for a 300K property, that's 9 grand. Yet that doesn't seem to be a problem.

So ? You seem to like to point out that other ways of making a living have ethical problems. Do you do that to make yourself feel better or get to sleep at night ? What percentage does a timeshare salesman make - does 5-10 % sound about right. ?

[charlie_m Member Find all posts View Profile Close charlie_m]

I've enjoyed reading this thread but I think charlie is the real deal, We have had numerous discussions about time share tours over the years.
Hoc know best. Folks want to know which resorts have low pressure sales pitch and the best gifts all the time..We do have mooches out there who hit asm any tours as they can and brag about on the Ts boards.

Most folks never put themselves in the salesman shoes. Charlie passionately did.

I haven't done a timeshare presentation in years. Don't want the gifts nor play games with the salesman



Thank You!!!

Yes, I am a former timeshare slug, own timeshare, and don't like the sales methodology. Also sold cars. But what most people don't realize is that we are living breathing people, no better and no worse than anyone else, and that includes those who waste another person's time and then gloat about it..

What I have to say should be valuable to this forum and the way I see it, you can kill the messenger, but the message never changes.

[janapur Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close janapur]

[COLOR="Red"]you can kill the messenger[/COLOR[/U]], but the message never changes.

I don't wish to kill the messenger, just disagree with the message. For example, I can think of only a couple of resorts (out of thousands) at which the original owners have more/better privileges than resale buyers, none of which I've ever owned. However, I've been told this by several salespeople.

[charlie_m Member Find all posts View Profile Close charlie_m]

Well unfortunately, if 2 owners are trying to get a hard to get reservation like LV on NYE, the resort manager will always bend over backwards to help out an owner who bought on tour. Seen it happen. Is it wrong? Can't be the judge, but it is what it is.

[charlie_m Member Find all posts View Profile Close charlie_m]

But the house doesn't lose 90% of its value at resale 7 days after the purchase. Peaches and pears comparison I'm afraid. Earn 3% of the RESALE value and you got my respect. Heck - I'll give you 5%!


I didn't create the system, have nothing to do with the market. My only agenda is to speak up for a majority of colleagues that you and others seem to despise. I guess in a perfect world you'd rather do without salespeople. That's OK. When disrespected the sword cuts both ways. After enough time on a sales floor, there are customers that salespeople literally run away from. You know who you are.......

90% depreciation does seem a little dramatic for the real estate market.

[GrayFal Silver Contributor and supermoderator Find all posts View Profile Close GrayFal]

Despise is a rather strong word - mistrust, dislike maybe.

This is not a personal attack on you Charlie.
If you say you weren't dishonest to your customers, I believe you.

But many here have had personal experience with TS salepeople not being truthful to them - and I hope you are able to believe that.

[charlie_m Member Find all posts View Profile Close charlie_m]

Originally Posted by charlie_m
So most timeshare sales professionals are liars. And this you know for a fact? And you are assuming that I've lied or never told the whole truth? Man you don't have any idea of what I do or how I do it. Just like I don't know you.

Experience is a fact.

Your experience may be a fact to you; just like you may be master of your own sandbox.

As for "bribing" people to tour, if you read my earlier post, that's just the way it is. You as a consumer, can choose to participate or not. I didn't create the system. The "bodysnatchers" A.K.A. OPC (that's off-premise coordinators) are paid to get the bodies on the bus. That's where the real problem lies. I know for a fact that they will lie, help the prospect lie just to get them to tour. Like making up family income, which is a qualifier to tour. That's because they are paid on volume and spiffed (bonused) if the tour purchases. Thay are not salesmen in training. In Nevada, the OPC does not need a timeshare sales license. You really should research your facts.

Ok- they are wanna-be timeshare salesmen (like training on their own). Doesn't timeshare begin to sound like a house of lies ?

Some OPC would rather do that than sell on the floor; there's different responsibilities and perks....another assumption. I am curious, if timeshare is such a pack of lies, why do you own?

I've been in the business and although you may not like what I say, it's a lot more than you know.

I know some good people in the business, they are rare - they don't have to say they are honest.

OK, so how do your "good people" differ from others, without giving one a chance to prove you right or wrong?

You claim that timeshares are sold at 2-10 times what they are worth. So what makes that claim valid? Is it the fact that resales are basically given away on the Internet? The fact is, people either get tired of the HOAs or are in financial straits so they liquidate. Did you know that such timeshare purchasers do not get the same privileges as original owners?

Since 50 % or more of the sales price is for marketing- the real value is evident. There are a few rare cases where resale purchasers do not get the same privileges as buyers from developers- but some salespeople tell this story when it is not true.

So you know the timeshare business? Good for you. If I was spending 20 or 30K or more, I would make every effort to understand what I was buying. And I have seen preference given to resort clients in many ways. If you owned a business wouldn't your own clients deserve a little extra?

By the way, realtors make typically 3% on the sale of a home. So for a 300K property, that's 9 grand. Yet that doesn't seem to be a problem.

So ? You seem to like to point out that other ways of making a living have ethical problems. Do you do that to make yourself feel better or get to sleep at night ? What percentage does a timeshare salesman make - does 5-10 % sound about right. ?

Yeah I do. There's ethical issues in most jobs, maybe even yours. Let me ask you, what do you do for a living?