New to timeshare ownership- help please!

[lnelson Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close lnelson]

Hello to all,

My wife and I just sat through a Wyndam presentation on timeshare ownership yesterday. We have absolutely no experience with timeshares. While the points ownership program seemed to make sense for our family, I was very uncomfortable with the "one time offer-but it now approach" they took. After 5 hours and 3 escalations to higher level sales staff we finally left- I do not spend that kind of money without serious consideration and research, which of course they did not want me to do. I learned quite a bit during our time there though. After leaving, a quick check on eBay and some reseller websites confirmed what I suspected; buying through the developer is a very expensive path to timeshare ownership. Having determined this, the next question is how to go about securing a property on the secondary market in a safe, protected manner.

This is what I have figured out so far (experts, correct me if I am wrong please):
Maintenance costs matter and seem to vary from property to property
Buying a part of a desirable property is a good idea from an RCI “trade” standpoint
The points program seems better than a locked in week/facility arrangement

Questions for those of you in the know (I am sure that this sort of question has come up many times before so I apologize for my novice-level questions).

Which are the most desirable (easiest to trade) properties? We live in NC so were looking at Myrtle Beach ownerships but I am not sure that the facility you intend to stay at needs to be a consideration in which one you buy.

What is the safe process for buying second-hand? Is escrow recommended? What other fees and steps should be expected? Are there steps and safeguards I need to use to keep from getting scammed?

Are there any downsides to a resale purchase? Are there resellers that are recommended from a reputation standpoint?

What about all these “extra charges” they talked about during the presentation
RCI enrollment fee
RCI yearly fee
Plus partners enrollment

Anything else we need to consider before we take this step?

Thanks in advance to any of you who have the patience to help out a family just starting down the timeshare ownership path.

Regards,

Larry Nelson

[Spence Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Spence]

Congrats, you seem to have absorbed lot. THe difference between what you were offered and resale is the price and the VIP benefits, everything else you listed/asked about, you get. The advantage of VIP benefits are debatable and not worth ~$20K+.

MB is a good location in season. A recent purchase I saw was 400,000 points for $2500. Purchase any Wyndham MB and you get 13month priority at all of MB.

Escrow and professional closing is always good.

Hello to all,

My wife and I just sat through a Wyndam presentation on timeshare ownership yesterday. We have absolutely no experience with timeshares. While the points ownership program seemed to make sense for our family, I was very uncomfortable with the "one time offer-but it now approach" they took. After 5 hours and 3 escalations to higher level sales staff we finally left- I do not spend that kind of money without serious consideration and research, which of course they did not want me to do. I learned quite a bit during our time there though. After leaving, a quick check on eBay and some reseller websites confirmed what I suspected; buying through the developer is a very expensive path to timeshare ownership. Having determined this, the next question is how to go about securing a property on the secondary market in a safe, protected manner.

This is what I have figured out so far (experts, correct me if I am wrong please):
Maintenance costs matter and seem to vary from property to property
Buying a part of a desirable property is a good idea from an RCI “trade” standpoint
The points program seems better than a locked in week/facility arrangement

Questions for those of you in the know (I am sure that this sort of question has come up many times before so I apologize for my novice-level questions).

Which are the most desirable (easiest to trade) properties? We live in NC so were looking at Myrtle Beach ownerships but I am not sure that the facility you intend to stay at needs to be a consideration in which one you buy.

What is the safe process for buying second-hand? Is escrow recommended? What other fees and steps should be expected? Are there steps and safeguards I need to use to keep from getting scammed?

Are there any downsides to a resale purchase? Are there resellers that are recommended from a reputation standpoint?

What about all these “extra charges” they talked about during the presentation
RCI enrollment fee
RCI yearly fee
Plus partners enrollment

Anything else we need to consider before we take this step?

Thanks in advance to any of you who have the patience to help out a family just starting down the timeshare ownership path.

Regards,

Larry Nelson

[shorts Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close shorts]

Larry ... see my responses below in red.

Hello to all,

My wife and I just sat through a Wyndam presentation on timeshare ownership yesterday. We have absolutely no experience with timeshares. While the points ownership program seemed to make sense for our family, I was very uncomfortable with the "one time offer-but it now approach" they took. After 5 hours and 3 escalations to higher level sales staff we finally left- I do not spend that kind of money without serious consideration and research, which of course they did not want me to do. I learned quite a bit during our time there though. After leaving, a quick check on eBay and some reseller websites confirmed what I suspected; buying through the developer is a very expensive path to timeshare ownership. Having determined this, the next question is how to go about securing a property on the secondary market in a safe, protected manner.

Welcome ... great job on doing your research! Wyndham is a great value if purchased resale.

This is what I have figured out so far (experts, correct me if I am wrong please):
Maintenance costs matter and seem to vary from property to property
Buying a part of a desirable property is a good idea from an RCI “trade” standpoint
The points program seems better than a locked in week/facility arrangement

Correct on MF (maintenance fees). Definetely want to check those out closely before purchasing resale. RCI trades will make no difference as to which property you own. You give Wyndham so many points depending on the unit size and season you want for trade power. Wyndham picks the week. Points program gives you a lot more bang for your buck once you learn how to use it.

Questions for those of you in the know (I am sure that this sort of question has come up many times before so I apologize for my novice-level questions).

Which are the most desirable (easiest to trade) properties? We live in NC so were looking at Myrtle Beach ownerships but I am not sure that the facility you intend to stay at needs to be a consideration in which one you buy.

Again, trade power does not matter. Points are points except when it comes to ARP. ARP allows you to book at your home resort 13-10 months in advance whereas everyone else has to wait until 10 months out. If you want Myrtle Beach in the summer, it is best to buy at one of those properties.

What is the safe process for buying second-hand? Is escrow recommended? What other fees and steps should be expected? Are there steps and safeguards I need to use to keep from getting scammed?

Verify all information in an ad with Wyndham in regard to all fees being current and that owner does in fact have the right to sell this deed. Using a good closing company should provide you with escrow services.

Are there any downsides to a resale purchase? Are there resellers that are recommended from a reputation standpoint?

You can find a list of reputable resellers at the Wyndham OWNERS forum at Wyndham Resorts Forums • Index page This is also a great site to learn about everything Wyndham including an excellant primer that is a must read before purchasing points.

What about all these “extra charges” they talked about during the presentation
RCI enrollment fee
RCI yearly fee
Plus partners enrollment
Your RCI enrollment and yearly fees are paid through your Wyndham program fees. Additional fees would be the exchange fees when making a trade. Plus partners is not included when purchasing resale, but can be purchased from Wyndham for $2395. Most people do not feel the benefits are worth the price.

Anything else we need to consider before we take this step?

Yes, go to the Wyndham OWNERS forum and read all you can. Many threads there will answer most of your questions. Good luck with your search.

Thanks in advance to any of you who have the patience to help out a family just starting down the timeshare ownership path.

Regards,

Larry Nelson

[Jya-Ning Silver Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close Jya-Ning]

Larry:

Welcome. Since you did not post this in specific Wyndham forums, I will guess you should try first look around some potential mini-point systems available in TS.

Wyndhma resale is one of the cheapest, so you can also just bought it and start playing. If you buy resale from eBay, and know what you bought, in most of the cases, you can get out from it with no or less loss.

It is up to your own personality.

Jya-Ning

[falmouth3 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close falmouth3]

Wow, what a tortuous sales meeting. Yet you came out more educated. Take your time and read here. You'll be happy that you said no to the sales people and came here for advice.

Welcome!

[Carolinian Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Carolinian]

Resale is definitely the way to go.

For closing, make certain that deeds are prepared by local attorneys. I have seen way too many totally invalid deeds on the Outer Banks, prepared by these out of state ''professional closing companies''.

Make sure what you are buying is a deeded property. You can be subject to a lot of monkey business by managment / developer if your ownership is other than deeded. See the thread ''cancellation by Diamond Resorts'' for the things that can happen in non-deeded arrangements.

Fairfield / Wyndham has a history of playing hardball and being unfair to owners. Google the brohaha at Bluebeards Castle in the USVI, for instance. I would avoid them like the plague.

Supply and demand are the key factors in trading. Nice areas can be overbuilt in timeshare and therefore not be that good as traders. Charleston has a much better supply / demand curce than Myrtle Beach although MB is really not overbuilt yet, especilally for the summer.

Strongly consider where it is you want to vacation yourself when you are buying.

I avoid buying any resort that is still in development or with an HOA board that is controlled by the developer or that is still managed by the developer.
Developers have a bad habit of playing games or subsidizing maintenance fees to make them seem smaller while in sales, and then these things catch up with the HOA after the developer is gone. A resort that is owner-controlled rather than developer-controlled and solidly managed is what I look for.

I would recommend going on check -in /out day and look around and ask questions. Particularly ask and look about their refurbishment program and reserves.

There are often good deals on eBay, but also ask if the resort has a resale board.

Points systems favor developers rather than consumers, and that is why developers are pushing them these days. Deeded, fixed weeks are best.

[lnelson Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close lnelson]

Thanks to all for the good advice offered thusfar. Any recommendations on some of the best sources for good prices and honest treatment on resales? Spence mentioned a recent MB sale he was aware of at 400,000 points for $2,500. If this is the general going rate, I will be looking for about 500,000 points with lower than average maintenance fees. I will start my search in MB since this is closest to home but from what some of you have told me, this might not matter.

Thanks again for any additional advice.

Lnelson

[Jya-Ning Silver Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close Jya-Ning]

Assume you do want Wyndham. Than try eBay, some reputable resaler like Tom C, Angle, Jeff. You can find their info at Wyndham Resorts Forums • Index page

[djyamyam Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close djyamyam]

Thanks to all for the good advice offered thusfar. Any recommendations on some of the best sources for good prices and honest treatment on resales? Spence mentioned a recent MB sale he was aware of at 400,000 points for $2,500. If this is the general going rate, I will be looking for about 500,000 points with lower than average maintenance fees. I will start my search in MB since this is closest to home but from what some of you have told me, this might not matter.

Thanks again for any additional advice.

Lnelson

If you want Myrtle Beach, here is a current auction for 900K+ points

948,000 FAIRFIELD Points GOLD CROWN Wyndham Timeshare - eBay (item 300244134466 end time Jul-27-08 18:30:00 PDT)

[lnelson Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close lnelson]

Thanks for pointing this auction out. I have been watching a number of them on EBay trying and get a feel for pricing. There was a 1,000,000 point MB Wyndham package that went for $9,000 last night. I still don't have a good feel for pricing yet so I will continue to monitor.

It also becomes a question of how deep do I want to jump in on this. The 1,000,000 point program carried with it about $4,800 in annual maintenance fees. I need to make sure that I really understand what our family needs and how we would use it before we take on something like that.

A few related questions: It seems like there are two approaches that can be taken; one is to buy a big (1,000,000) package and hope that this is really what you want, or the other is to test the water with a 300,000 package (which of course brings with it much smaller maintenance fees) and make sure that the points timeshare strategy works for the family. The question is, are there advantages/disadvantages to owning one 1,000,000 point deed vs. owning 3 or 4 smaller packages that total the 1,000,000 points? I understand that the closing, title, and transfer costs will be duplicated for each deed but other than that, is there any difference when it comes to using points or any other consideration?

One other question: I can't figure out what "fairshare" means. I understand the Wyndam and Fairfield (all one now) but is fairshare a specific program within these companies or is it something different?

Thanks again for helping us navigate this new world of timeshares. Those of you who have recommended that we eduate ourselves before jumping in have offered good advice that we are trying to follow.

[mshatty Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close mshatty]

Thanks for pointing this auction out. I have been watching a number of them on EBay trying and get a feel for pricing. There was a 1,000,000 point MB Wyndham package that went for $9,000 last night. I still don't have a good feel for pricing yet so I will continue to monitor.

It also becomes a question of how deep do I want to jump in on this. The 1,000,000 point program carried with it about $4,800 in annual maintenance fees. I need to make sure that I really understand what our family needs and how we would use it before we take on something like that.

A few related questions: It seems like there are two approaches that can be taken; one is to buy a big (1,000,000) package and hope that this is really what you want, or the other is to test the water with a 300,000 package (which of course brings with it much smaller maintenance fees) and make sure that the points timeshare strategy works for the family. The question is, are there advantages/disadvantages to owning one 1,000,000 point deed vs. owning 3 or 4 smaller packages that total the 1,000,000 points? It depends on your needs. If you have a large family that wants to be able to reserve a large presidential unit at a specific resort at a particularity hot week during the ARP period, then maybe you want a 1,000,000 points at that resort. On the other hand, if you are going to use your points at lots of resorts at the 10 months to check in period, then your home resort may not make as much difference. One thing about having 3 or 4 resorts, you spread your MF liability among 3 or 4 HOAs. One of the HOA may have a special assessment and the others don't. There are some resorts that have better MFs than others. Part of your Wyn education may be to learn about those.I understand that the closing, title, and transfer costs will be duplicated for each deed but other than that, is there any difference when it comes to using points or any other consideration?Buying a Wyn timeshare is buying real estate. Therefore, there has to be a deed, recording of that deed and then having the ownership/contract/deed transfer from Owner A to you in Wyn's records. All of these steps involve fees. Wyn's fee to transfer ownership from A to you is $100. The other closing fees are normally paid to a closing company who handles the deeds and recording them. Also, the closing company may act as escrow agent to hold the deed and your money until all things are completed. The closing company charges from $300 to $500 for this service.

One other question: I can't figure out what "fairshare" means. "fairshare" is actually the name of the Wyndham points program. The official name is Fairshare Plus or FSP.I understand the Wyndam and Fairfield (all one now) but is fairshare a specific program within these companies or is it something different?Fairfield changed its name to Wyndham Vacation Resorts. Again, FSP is the name it gave its timeshare point program.

Thanks again for helping us navigate this new world of timeshares. Those of you who have recommended that we eduate ourselves before jumping in have offered good advice that we are trying to follow.

See my comments in red.

[Carolinian Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Carolinian]

If you are buying in MB, use a SC attorney to prepare deeds, not a closing company located elsewhere. These out of state closing companies regularly screw up NC timeshare deeds, and SC is probably not very different. If I remember correctly, SC is like NC in that it is a violation of criminal law for someone not the buyer or seller and not a licensed SC attorney to prepare a deed.

[rikkis_playpen Diamond Club Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close rikkis_playpen]

A few smaller contracts may be more advisable..

Generally, when I have a resale buyer new to the Wyndham system looking to acquire a large allotment, I recommend making a few purchases of reasonable sized deeds.. Your risks may be less..

As stated earlier, your m. fee risk will be spread out over a few resorts. Plus, if you later find the program is not for you or you over purchased- you'll have the ability to sell some of your points and reduce your ownership. Finally, large point deeds can be more difficult to sell than say a 154k or a 203k. With the bigger point totals, you will be limited to buyers that want that amount (and the m. fees that go with it)..

Good luck!

[lnelson Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close lnelson]

OK, a few more question for everyone- With the Wyndham points program, how long do you have to use the points until they expire? Are their options or strategies for if you have points nearing expiration?

Thanks to the good advice from everyone thusfar, I bought a 294 point package on EBay the other night for Wyndham Ocean Blvd. It was bought for 5% (95% discount) of the "discounted" rate that the developer offered us during their sales presentation. I guess there might be some valid reasons to consider resales! I am not sure if this is the best Myrtle Beach property to own but if I understand it correctly this gives me advance booking advantage for any of the Wyndham properties. Is this correct?

I live in central NC and would like to look at adding maybe 100,000-200,000 points to one of the western NC properties. The Wyndham options seem to be Sapphire, or Lake Lure. Smoky Mountains in TN does not seem to be to much further. Any thoughts on which is the best of these to own/nicest to stay at?

Thanks,

Larry

[Jya-Ning Silver Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close Jya-Ning]

OK, a few more question for everyone- With the Wyndham points program, how long do you have to use the points until they expire? Are their options or strategies for if you have points nearing expiration?

Thanks to the good advice from everyone thusfar, I bought a 294 point package on EBay the other night for Wyndham Ocean Blvd. It was bought for 5% (95% discount) of the "discounted" rate that the developer offered us during their sales presentation. I guess there might be some valid reasons to consider resales! I am not sure if this is the best Myrtle Beach property to own but if I understand it correctly this gives me advance booking advantage for any of the Wyndham properties. Is this correct?

I live in central NC and would like to look at adding maybe 100,000-200,000 points to one of the western NC properties. The Wyndham options seem to be Sapphire, or Lake Lure. Smoky Mountains in TN does not seem to be to much further. Any thoughts on which is the best of these to own/nicest to stay at?

Thanks,

Larry

I like Smoky Mountain. But each person has his (her) own taste. You do able to get home resort advantage on Myrtel Beach at 13 month. At 10 month, it is everone's game.

Point is good for 1 year. There are ways to extend its life. One (put into credit pool) has to take action before the use year starts, so you will not be able to do that this time, maybe for next year's point. The other is to rent it out. The 3rd one is to deposit them to exchange company(ies).

Jya-Ning