Class action filed against RCI on rental issue

[katiemack Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close katiemack]

Their resume of cases include some well known settlements...just perhaps, RCI doesn't have it all "covered".

[reddiablosv Member Find all posts View Profile Close reddiablosv]

Do you seriously believe this? If you have a strong case that you can prove. There is no need to dilute it with extraneous allegations and unrelated facts.

Having been involved in numerous lawsuits, yes I do. This is the beginning of a potentially very complicated case, who knows were the discovery process will lead. All the facts are not known. At this point,We do not know what can be proven and can not be proven. Ben

[T. R. Oglodyte Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close T. R. Oglodyte]

Do you seriously believe this? If you have a strong case that you can prove. There is no need to dilute it with extraneous allegations and unrelated facts.

Certainly you do. In the initial filings, you include jsut about every theory you can possibly think of. You can always take things out later, but it's for more difficult to get permission to add something later. And before you do discovery, you don't know what you will find.

[suskey Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close suskey]

Is there anything we(RCI members) should be doing about this now? I feel we should show our support in some way..just don't know how.

Susan

[BocaBum99 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close BocaBum99]

Certainly you do. In the initial filings, you include jsut about every theory you can possibly think of. You can always take things out later, but it's for more difficult to get permission to add something later. And before you do discovery, you don't know what you will find.

No wonder our legal system is so messed up. Technically, anyone can sue anyone for anything. So yes, you can throw up as much mud as you want. And, you can make as many allegations as well.

I think that JeffV suggested once (sarcastically, of course) that RCI rentals could be the cause of the Indonesian Tsunami. Perhaps that can be thrown in, too.

I would think that the allegations need to apply to the same class.

In the complaint against RCI renting spacebanked weeks, the plaintiffs are RCI weeks owners who got worse trades since weeks were rented out of the spacebank.

In a complaint against RCI for not charging sales tax, the plaintiffs would the state governments whose taxes were not paid.

In a complaint against RCI for not reimbursing rentals cancelled due to hurricanes, the plaintiffs would be limited to those RCI members who actually had a rental cancelled and not reimbursed. Unless, of course, it were a criminal case.

This particular complaint is not a criminal action, even then, there would have to be different cases for state vs. federal crimes and they would be tried in different jurisdictions, wouldn't they?

Now, I could see if someone filed a class action law suit in a complaint entitled the "I hate RCI action." Then, I could see including all of these things. You could list all the reasons why RCI is putting undue stress onto its members. You could claim lost wages and compensatory damages due to this excess stress. You could link increase in heart attacks due to announcements such as the extra fees at the Manhattan Club, unexplained cancellation of confirmations, and more. At least in this case, the allegations would support the theory that a defined class of people were harmed.

[BocaBum99 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close BocaBum99]

I wonder if Madge will continue to post on TUG?

I think there are several things that RCI and Madge have written on TUG that could be a problem if they are not doing what they said.


Walt

Walt,

On the other hand, if RCI can prove that the policies and actions they have taken are consisent with what Madge wrote, then they will be completely exonerated.

If RCI is completely exonerated, will RCI bashers apologize and admit they were wrong?

[BocaBum99 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close BocaBum99]

Having been involved in numerous lawsuits, yes I do. This is the beginning of a potentially very complicated case, who knows were the discovery process will lead. All the facts are not known. At this point,We do not know what can be proven and can not be proven. Ben

Given that you are suggesting that the attorneys draft allegations that don't even apply to their class, I have to ask this question.

Did you actually win any of those lawsuits?

[Carolinian Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Carolinian]

Following their own internal policies or T&C's will NOT necessarily exonerate them. The policies or T&C's themselves may well be deemed unlawful. Under North Carolina consumer protection law (NCGS 75-1.1) all it takes is for something to be found to be ''unfair'' or ''deceptive'', which makes for a pretty big target.

Walt,

On the other hand, if RCI can prove that the policies and actions they have taken are consisent with what Madge wrote, then they will be completely exonerated.

[BocaBum99 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close BocaBum99]

Following their own internal policies or T&C's will NOT necessarily exonerate them. The policies or T&C's themselves may well be deemed unlawful. Under North Carolina consumer protection law (NCGS 75-1.1) all it takes is for something to be found to be ''unfair'' or ''deceptive'', which makes for a pretty big target.

Fair enough. Then, let's assume a two step process. RCI produces the rules, they are deemed lawful. And, the audit shows they are following their lawful process. Would that be sufficient for you to personally exonerate them?

For me, I think this overall lawsuit will be a good thing. First, it will put some fear into RCI product managers. They don't want to get sued, so they will at least think twice before going over the top of various profit making endeavors. Second, it could prove one way or another whether RCI is acting unlawfully.

If RCI is guilty, I hope they fire the entire senior management team and institute transparent rules and policies for their exchange. I will congratulate the RCI bashers for being right all along.

If they are innocent, I hope that that the RCI bashers admit they were wrong about RCI.

If it is grey, then I just expect the status quo. I would expect everyone to keep their current positions.

My position is the same. I think RCI has been a shady company in the past and so people need to treat them with some level of skepticism. I will continue to use them as long as I get equal or more in return for what I put in.

[tennisWalt Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close tennisWalt]

I Don't Think I Need to Apologize for Asking Tough Questions!

Walt,

On the other hand, if RCI can prove that the policies and actions they have taken are consisent with what Madge wrote, then they will be completely exonerated.

If RCI is completely exonerated, will RCI bashers apologize and admit they were wrong?

My position is the same. I think RCI has been a shady company in the past and so people need to treat them with some level of skepticism. I will continue to use them as long as I get equal or more in return for what I put in.

I don't know if you are calling me a RCI Basher ot not. But that is not the point of this post. You can think what you want.

But, I do not consider myself a RCI Basher. The Merriam-Weber definition of Basher is “to attack physically or verbally.” If I verbally attacked RCI on TUG, Dave and Dani would have kicked me off of TUG.

But I have asked tough question. I also have gotten a lot of Spin from Madge on these questions.

My question on Ask RCI about the Maui Embassy had a whole lot of Spin from Madge. I also thought that this statement from Madge on Maui Embassy was interesting, “If I cannot share something, I will let you know that; however, the information I do share is true to the very best of my knowledge.”

I do think that RCI should not rent Owner’s Spacebank Weeks that are in Prime Location in Prime Time for any reason.

I do think it is wrong to call Snap Travel an Outside Vendor, yet allow them to use RCI’s VC to service the Rental transaction of Snap Travel. Who is paying the VCs, Snap Travel or RCI? Or are we paying Snap Travels expenses by way or our RCI membership fee?

I do think that RCI should be collecting and paying State and Local taxes on Rentals.

I do think that RCI should make available ALL weeks as Exchanges that were deposited as Owner’s Spacebank Weeks, like they said they do.

I do think RCI should call rentals what they are. They should be called Rentals and not Exchanges on their Confirmation Sheet.

I do think that the week that was given to RCI for a Points Program transaction should be the only week that RCI rents out. Substitution of Prime Weeks in Prime Location for these weeks is wrong.

I do think that they need to return rental fees when they can not provide the rental.

I do think that $147.00 is too costly for an on line Exchange fee transaction.

I do think a $50.00 guest fee is uncalled for.

That said, I am a member of RCI. I have a paid up membership until 2012. I have gotten good trades in the past. I have several future trades I am satisfied with. If RCI continues to provide these Weeks trades in the future, I will continue to remain a member of RCI.

However, I still have the right to ask tough questions without be called a RCI Basher.

Walt

[BocaBum99 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close BocaBum99]

I don't know if you are calling me a RCI Basher ot not. But that is not the point of this post. You can think what you want.

But, I do not consider myself a RCI Basher. The Merriam-Weber definition of Basher is “to attack physically or verbally.” If I verbally attacked RCI on TUG, Dave and Dani would have kicked me off of TUG.

But I have asked tough question. I also have gotten a lot of Spin from Madge on these questions.

My question on Ask RCI about the Maui Embassy had a whole lot of Spin from Madge. I also thought that this statement from Madge on Maui Embassy was interesting, “If I cannot share something, I will let you know that; however, the information I do share is true to the very best of my knowledge.”

I do think that RCI should not rent Owner’s Spacebank Weeks that are in Prime Location in Prime Time for any reason.

I do think it is wrong to call Snap Travel an Outside Vendor, yet allow them to use RCI’s VC to service the Rental transaction of Snap Travel. Who is paying the VCs, Snap Travel or RCI? Or are we paying Snap Travels expenses by way or our RCI membership fee?

I do think that RCI should be collecting and paying State and Local taxes on Rentals.

I do think that RCI should make available ALL weeks as Exchanges that were deposited as Owner’s Spacebank Weeks, like they said they do.

I do think RCI should call rentals what they are. They should be called Rentals and not Exchanges on their Confirmation Sheet.

I do think that the week that was given to RCI for a Points Program transaction should be the only week that RCI rents out. Substitution of Prime Weeks in Prime Location for these weeks is wrong.

I do think that they need to return rental fees when they can not provide the rental.

I do think that $147.00 is too costly for an on line Exchange fee transaction.

I do think a $50.00 guest fee is uncalled for.

That said, I am a member of RCI. I have a paid up membership until 2012. I have gotten good trades in the past. I have several future trades I am satisfied with. If RCI continues to provide these Weeks trades in the future, I will continue to remain a member of RCI.

However, I still have the right to ask tough questions without be called a RCI Basher.

Walt

I agree with most of your points. I think they are well thought out and principled. On some of them, it's RCI's right to do what they want within the law. Our only choice in dealing with them is as you have suggested, keep using them or use someone else.

You can associate or dis-associate yourself with the RCI Basher or any other group. That's your prerogative. Do you feel that such a group doesn't exist? I claim it does and my question remains, will the RCI Bashers change their view if RCI is exonerated?

[tennisWalt Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close tennisWalt]

I think the group does exist!

I agree with most of your points. I think they are well thought out and principled. On some of them, it's RCI's right to do what they want within the law. Our only choice in dealing with them is as you have suggested, keep using them or use someone else.

You can associate or dis-associate yourself with the RCI Basher or any other group. That's your prerogative. Do you feel that such a group doesn't exist? I claim it does and my question remains, will the RCI Bashers change their view if RCI is exonerated?

Hi BocaBum99,

I think a group does exist. I also think that a group of Tuggers exist that are very pro RCI. It seems that RCI can do no wrong. I sometimes wonder if some of them are really from RCI work force. I would not include you in them.

Just an interesting side to this Rental problem with RCI. When I wrote my Post to Ask RCI about the Maui Embassy, there were no Weeks available for Exchanges and there were many week available for Rentals.

I did not check Extra Vacation for the Maui Embassy for September to December 2006. But I did do an Exchange search for this time period and found the same large number of Maui Embassy Weeks now available as Exchanges. As you may know, I did write the Embassy about this, but as of today, I have now gotten a letter or email back. But the end results, Maui Embassy exchanges are now available.

Walt

[taffy19 Gold Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close taffy19]

Walt, very interesting. Maybe the threat of a class action lawsuit may set things right because the next person may sue the resorts, who allow this to happen too.

The problem is that class action lawsuits are going to cost us all money and the only ones who benefit really, are the lawyers. JMHO.

[Carolinian Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Carolinian]

That's why I have always suggested that the best route to go would be to interest a state AG in the issue. They are not out after money. They are mainly interested in just setting things right for the consumer. The only vice they may have is that AG seems to also stand for ''Aspiring Governor'' so they like the publicity from consumer protection lawsuits.

[T. R. Oglodyte Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close T. R. Oglodyte]

That's why I have always suggested that the best route to go would be to interest a state AG in the issue. They are not out after money. They are mainly interested in just setting things right for the consumer. The only vice they may have is that AG seems to also stand for ''Aspiring Governor'' so they like the publicity from consumer protection lawsuits.

I agree that a State AG action would probably have the bigger hammer.

And it is differet from a private action, where the system revolves around attorneys fees, not justice.

With a State AG it revolves around being reelected (or elected to higher office), not justice.