Class action filed against RCI on rental issue

[Carolinian Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Carolinian]

I have just found out that the lead plaintiff is a sometime participant on TUG and that one of the attorneys is an active weeks timesharer. This makes me feel better that they will extract some meaningful change out of RCI along with thier fee, rather than just some minor window dressing to justify getting the fee, as sometimes happens in class actions.

As far as I am concerned, I am not interested at all in money damages for what is past. The amounts of that in class actions tend to be miniscule, anyway. I am interested in seeing some injunctive relief to force RCI to straighten up and fly right for the future, and some ongoing monitoring to see that it happens.

[reddiablosv Member Find all posts View Profile Close reddiablosv]

Given that you are suggesting that the attorneys draft allegations that don't even apply to their class, I have to ask this question.

Did you actually win any of those lawsuits?

Boca , are you an attorney? Do you have any legal or business expertise?? Have you ever been involved in a lawsuit or the management of a major corporation? You question my experience, what is yours?? By your posts my best guess is that your current employment is PR for RCI!! Your specialty is Damage control!! Over the past few months I have repeatly been surprised by you and a few others reluctance to accept what RCI has been doing in regards to rentals. You and others have bent over backwards to make excuses and create explanations for RCIs unethical and exploitive practices. I think that a lot of good potentially will come out of this lawsuit. No I do not think it will net me any money personally. But, I do think that more resorts will dual affiliate. Some will drop RCI. TS owners will choose other exchange companies. And all exchange companies will rethink their rental programs!!!! This last point is our greatest benefit. Ben

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

Based on HOC's summary, re-posted in Post #15, I can't imagine a more concise presentation of the complaints that have been voiced regarding this issue the past few years. That is exactly how many feel, that RCI has betrayed their members, changed their business model, breached a confidence to behave in the best interest of those who deposit weeks and wish to get a decent exchange in return, and that members are helpless to stop them, except by a suit of this nature.

It's not as if RCI has not heard these complaints over and over and over and over and over.

It goes to the very heart of the closed system v. the very leaky system, something some of us have been criticized for discussing. In a nutshell, some of us have been told just the get over it, because that's not the way it works any more. Then we've been told the new way is better, because . . . . but by then I have tuned out.

I still believe the old days were the better days, when we did not suspect that inappropriate stuff was being done. We all just figured that what went into the exchange pool went to other RCI members or sat empty. It was almost an unspoken promise. Any other possibility was, simply, not a possiblity at all.

There's nothing wrong with that. It made Ms. DeHaan a rich lady.

If that is the basis of the case, it seems very solid. It's just a matter of what evidence they have. How long have some attempted to determine that weeks in the exchange pool were being rented? Other than what Madge has admitted, which she has, I don't believe anyone has gotten passed the very suspicious stage.

[taffy19 Gold Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close taffy19]

Boca , are you an attorney? Do you have any legal or business expertise?? Have you ever been involved in a lawsuit or the management of a major corporation? You question my experience, what is yours?? By your posts my best guess is that your current employment is PR for RCI!! Your specialty is Damage control!! Over the past few months I have repeatly been surprised by you and a few others reluctance to accept what RCI has been doing in regards to rentals. You and others have bent over backwards to make excuses and create explanations for RCIs unethical and exploitive practices. I think that a lot of good potentially will come out of this lawsuit. No I do not think it will net me any money personally. But, I do think that more resorts will dual affiliate. Some will drop RCI. TS owners will choose other exchange companies. And all exchange companies will rethink their rental programs!!!! This last point is our greatest benefit. Ben

I doubt very much if Boca is employed by Cendant. I just happened to read his post here.

To see the rest of the thread, click on the link above post #21.

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

There's some talk indicating some feel availabilty of prime weeks has increased since the lawsuit was announced.

To repeat something I said Over Yonder, not tongue-in-cheek and not trying to make any implication whatsoever, I have not been able to establish any link between rentals and the decreased availability of better resorts in my daily searches of SW Florida for January, something I have done since RCI.com began and documented since March 27, 2002.

I have even had what I sense to be the sincere assistance of my inside source to try to determine the reason for the decline. He has made some excellent observations as to why good stuff might have shown up previously and does not now. He has expressed a personal opinion that I was very fortunate to have been able to see what I did before, that I probably should not have, and that has a lot of merit. None of it has anything to do with rentals.

Nothing has changed since the announcement of the lawsuit. Not one of the better resorts has shown up and those appearing have all been the normal suspects.

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

Viewing this in the light of a new day, I'm not so sure the merits of the case, who wins or loses, is all that important. Any student of the Terms and Conditions, anyone familiar with the penalties for losing a suit against this company, knows that the filing itself speaks loudly, boldly.

If there is an ounce of compassion anywhere at this large company, it will acknowledge the dissatisfaction of a sizable segment of it's customers, perhaps the most loyal segment of it's customers. At the very least should there be some serious discussion about the merits of their business model and directed the compnay has heading the passed three years, when their rental business has been their proudest achievement:

RCI Milestones

2002 RCI enters the vacation rental market with Holiday Network (sm), a worldwide vacation rental channel for consumers

2005 RCI and the Cendant Vacation Rental Group operate in a new organization called Cendant Vacation Network Group (CVNG) headed by Ken May, chairman & CEO. CVNG becomes the global leader in leisure accommodations with exclusive access to 60,000 vacation properties worldwide.

[Bryan2319 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Bryan2319]

Class action lawsuit

The San Francisco firm to which the link in post #1 brings you, has not actually filed a class action complaint. A New York firm, Hanly Conroy Bierstein Sheridan Fisher & Hayes LLP, (www.HanlyConroy.com) in conjunction with two other firms, has filed a class action complaint against RCI in the Federal District Court in New Jersey. News of the filing should be on their website by early next week. As you can see from the website, the firm has an extensive record of successfully handling class action and mass tort cases. I have been working with these firms to locate and contact RCI members who have been victimized by the fraudulent actions of RCI and have made contact with a number of TUG and TS4M members as well as people who posted on other sites. I am very interested in talking with any RCI members who have been victimized. If you are interested in discussing your experiences or are interested in learning more about the class action case, please contact me.
BTW - An action by a state Attorney General can result in fines, etc. . . that can change the corporations behavior but does not compensate the victims directly.

David B. Cetron, Esq.
Investigative Management Group
825 Third Avenue
40th Floor
New York, N.Y. 10022
212-308-8500
Fax: 212-308-8664
dbc@investigativemanagement.com

[bigfrank Administrator Find all posts View Profile Close bigfrank]

The San Francisco firm to which the link in post #1 brings you, has not actually filed a class action complaint. A New York firm, Hanly Conroy Bierstein Sheridan Fisher & Hayes LLP, (www.HanlyConroy.com) in conjunction with two other firms, has filed a class action complaint against RCI in the Federal District Court in New Jersey. News of the filing should be on their website by early next week. As you can see from the website, the firm has an extensive record of successfully handling class action and mass tort cases. I have been working with these firms to locate and contact RCI members who have been victimized by the fraudulent actions of RCI and have made contact with a number of TUG and TS4M members as well as people who posted on other sites. I am very interested in talking with any RCI members who have been victimized. If you are interested in discussing your experiences or are interested in learning more about the class action case, please contact me.
BTW - An action by a state Attorney General can result in fines, etc. . . that can change the corporations behavior but does not compensate the victims directly.

David B. Cetron, Esq.
Investigative Management Group
825 Third Avenue
40th Floor
New York, N.Y. 10022
212-308-8500
Fax: 212-308-8664
dbc@investigativemanagement.com

Bryan , Thank you for coming here to post this information. Do you know if David Cetron is looking for all the Grand Mayan exchangers that were Switched at the last minute to the Standard Mayan Palace?
Edited to add: Also are they doing anything about the Manhattan club extra fees and cancellations.

[Carolinian Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Carolinian]

BTW - An action by a state Attorney General can result in fines, etc. . . that can change the corporations behavior but does not compensate the victims directly.

I think most timeshare owners are more interested in seeing policy changes for the future than in financial compensation for the past. The AG can accomplish that with injunctive relief, as, of course, can a class action suit.
I know that for myself the policy change are the whole ball of wax and any financial compensation almost insignificant.

[BoardGirl Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close BoardGirl]

Yeah, I don't care about money in my pocket, I just want to be sure that a deposit stays for exchange. If I wanted my unit rented out, I'd do it myself.

I think there's a huge conflict in all this points partner non-timeshare stuff that they "have" to rent to provide. And all the while, the fees keep going up and up and service goes down.

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

Same here. All I want to see is a return to the closed system, where those who have put money into it are the only ones that can take anything out of it.

And to vindicate Steve for his dogged effort to keep this and other exchange company issues in front of us, despite the crap some have given him. I can relate to persevering and fighting the good fight. Many times over the past five years.

[katiemack Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close katiemack]

the many faces of RCI "adjusting" inventory to suit its agenda

In an RCI affiliates publication to its affiliates in June/July 2005 RCI wrote an article about how GREAT the selling of individual nights was for members.

They claim, it is a "win-win" for all members: ( members of Points and Weeks). In the article, they claim that selling nights means that "less inventory is going to waste."



RCI claims that they started selling "unused Points inventory" because they "understood" that there was a BROAD request from weeks members for this program, therefore, RCI made it possible.

What I find so offensive to these claims in the article is the idea that there is a great demand by weeks owners who want to split weeks....I find this manipulative "reverse" marketing.

Owners who are wanting to go somewhere, who cannot get the exchange for which they have been waiting are often "convinced" by a VC that the only way they can get to the location is by renting or taking nightly rates.

I personally have had an RCI VC tell me that our exchange request was not possible, but on the very same call, he offered me a rental for that place and time frame I had requested.

We (and I believe many other weeks members are like us) refuse to convert (especially when Resorts are selling conversions at overinflated pricing...)

....we don't want POINTS... we want an exchange.

...we object to being told that there is no inventory only to find that what we want on Skyauction or Magical Holidays or some rental site.

Our view is that there is not a broad clamor from weeks members to get nightly rates, but the article is a spin to the affiliates to induce them to believing that the selling of their unused points ownership of nights is a good thing.

Weeks members who do not turn to points are derided, bullied, insulted, and conned, by sales folks, or folks who are selling Points, or pro-points folks who visit timeshare sites, and others who have some vested interest in the Points system.

We have witnessed local resorts selling conversions and heard them weave a spell trying to convince people to part with their money, to rebuy their own week...telling the owner that unless they convert they are destined to find that their Weeks Ownership is like a dead dinosaur waiting for the burial pronouncement.

RCI wants that perception out there. It works for them. Then they can sell nights, rentals, points for deposit schemes, conversions, additional points to "get where your week won't take you"....the list goes on.

They distort the truth when they claim that the Weeks Program is their "core" vision of the business.

Exchange Inventory is not what it used to be, and many people know it through direct experience, but don't have the hours required to document several years worth of searching history.

RCI is not an exchange company any longer. It is, by its own admission, a seller of "vacation experiences".

There is nothing more vague than that phrase.

Going to Hawaii can be an "experience," but so can "going to the cleaners" be an experience.

RCI doesn't care much, either way, which experience we have, as long as they beef up the corporate profit.

[tennisWalt Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close tennisWalt]

This is the part of Katiemack's statement I think tells it like it is.

We have witnessed local resorts selling conversions and heard them weave a spell trying to convince people to part with their money, to rebuy their own week...telling the owner that unless they convert they are destined to find that their Weeks Ownership is like a dead dinosaur waiting for the burial pronouncement.

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Why would anyone rebuy their own week if RCI didn't say Week's trades will be dead in 5 years? I have been told that by RCI trained salesmen. Have you?

Walt

[taffy19 Gold Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close taffy19]

We attended one of these meetings many years ago where they were trying to convert us too to a point-based system and this person told us too that exchanges for weeks would be a thing of the past in about five years. We did not convert because we had no plans on ever making an exchange as we like to stay here every year. I am glad we didn't because the few people, who did, are very upset and regret it. They paid a lot of money for the conversion too. It was about $3,500.

If only timeshare developers would be more honest in telling buyers how difficult it is to make an exchange. The directory should have a very large disclaimer on the first page so that you cannot help but notice it. The problem is that they talk around it. We all know that.

[katiemack Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close katiemack]

To many this will seem more Pts vs Weeks discussion, but I place it in the lawsuit thread because I believe it is related to the idea that weeks ownership have been devalued and RCI has been playing unfairly.

Walt,

The sales pitches we have heard attempt to convince owners that the Points system is being offered as a responsive product....responsive to the demand from weeks people for a more flexible way to use the week.

If it were TRULY responsive, it would not be sold at prices on average of $2995 by the sales office. It would be an affordable, reasonably explained option... But I contend that it is NOT responsive to consumer demand, but it is self-made and self-generating and trying to impose demand on us, as I said, "reverse marketing."


I have witnessed sales folks do the usual focus on Hawaii as the trade that will be possible, or how using points is great for cruises, airfare, car rentals (when if you do research, it just is not a good deal!)...the list of possibilities becomes almost hypnotic.

Throw in the sales pitch that tells a person how they can get 9000 pts exchanges, and split a bunch of pts into studio, one bedroom multiple weeks for the one week owned, and I have seen people succumb.

But the driving message of the fancy charts and graphs of points is this: RCI is GOING to POINTS and YOU will be left in the dust. You will be left holding, owning a devalued product.

Now I add this to the lawsuit thread because I believe that RCI has to be held in check...I see that the lawsuit might bring some sobering reins to the runaway idea of ransacking and dismantling the concept of timeshare ownership and exchanging.

In another thread here, I have mentioned that a VP of a local resort here has told us categorically that a points membership is viewed by their resort as predatory and destructive to the concept of timesharing.

Real Estate is the basis of the original concept of timesharing. With points, you are merely buying a vaporous product that morphs at will.