Negative news story regarding Festiva Resorts..

[rikkis_playpen Diamond Club Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close rikkis_playpen]

Eyewitness News investigates Festiva Resorts after customers complained - 5/01/09 - Raleigh News - abc11.com

The above link is for a story reported on a Raleigh, NC TV station, that includes information about complaints filed against the company with the state AG, who confirmed an investigation is underway.

[Spence Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Spence]

Eyewitness News investigates Festiva Resorts after customers complained - 5/01/09 - Raleigh News - abc11.com

The above link is for a story reported on a Raleigh, NC TV station, that includes information about complaints filed against the company with the state AG, who confirmed an investigation is underway.

OK reporting, but there's nothing new here. This mark doesn't understand that he does have to plan way in advance with timeshares (not just wanting popular times next month). We all know how easy to use those airline and cruise certificates are to use.

[Spence Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Spence]

Dear Steve,

Saw your clip and write up concerning "Paradise Lost" and feel that the reporting and Mr. Fagerberg are a bit shallow.

Festiva, other than having resorts in North Carolina and being based in beautiful Asheville (near where my family has a vacation home), is little different from any of the other timeshare/resort developers out there.

Timeshare is timeshare, whether it is an older weeks based product like many of the ones on the Outer Banks, the newer points based product that is the current model, or a blend of the two.

Mr Fagerberg, heard what he wanted to hear and bought into Festiva's program which, from what I know, is quite nice and even includes weeks on catamarans in the Caribbean. Timeshare salesmen depend on customers hearing what they want to hear. Timeshares are a great invention but are drastically overpriced. Mr. Fagerberg paid $18,000 for points that would get him a week somewhere. So, 51 others pay the same and Festiva gets almost $1,000,000 for a condo that may be worth $200,000 if sold conventionally. There's a lot of profit there and more on the way as Festiva probably is in total control of the annual Maintenance Fee.

Every new retail timeshare owner thinks that they can call in today and get whatever they want at Atlantic Beach, the Caribbean, or Hawaii in the summer; or New York City anytime. The real truth is that all the owners have access to the inventory at probably one year ahead of time and the savvy users are booking in that first hour that popular times become available in inventory, thus the answer to Mr. Fagerberg of "not this year." He was asking for something that savvy owners had already booked.

I would love to give you an interview or point you to the right sources to give your audience. I am an educated timeshare owner who is very happy with timeshare.

[rikkis_playpen Diamond Club Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close rikkis_playpen]

LOVE IT!

But somehow I doubt he'll take you up on the offer. Good news is much harder to sell to the masses. Plus, in todays society- it isn't politically correct to expect a consumer to be responsible for his own choices.... Everyone feels better having something else to blame.

The dichotomy of timeshare ownership is very simple- those educated about their ownership are generally satisfied with their product, and those who don't take the time to learn feel cheated.

Timeshares are an emotional sale- little different from that shiny convertible or that 35 foot cruiser. If you don't know how to drive, or don't realize how much fuel costs at a marina- chances are you're in for a rude awakening. Developers need to do a better job of consumer education, but there is plenty of information out there if someone takes a few minutes to look.

I'm a little worried about all the political attention the industry seems to be getting lately, and I hope the negative aspects that are being highlighted don't further deteriorate pubic opinion about the concept of timesharing!

At the same time, I am really encouraged by the number of positive posts I'm seeing. More owners seem to be searching for information about how to use and benefit from their ownership- and are becoming more involved in social groups such as this one.

Thanks for all you do, Spence.....

[Spence Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Spence]

We'll see if he even answers the email, thanks for your original post.

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

Festiva's run-in with the Missouri AG was for real, and Festiva settled.

Also old news.

[Spence Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Spence]

Festiva's run-in with the Missouri AG was for real, and Festiva settled. Also old news.

No one said that allegations against this company or the many similar ones against all other timeshare developers didn't have substance, but an educated consumer can easily see through the rogue saleswoman's half truths. If something is too good to be true, it's probably not true. It's too bad that the system devised to retail timeshares is fraught with abuses.

[Carolinian Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Carolinian]

Actually, points is the older timeshare concept. The very first timeshares were developed by Hapimag, a Swiss-based company that is still in business, and has sold only points-based products from the beginning. The weeks concept was a later improvement by a French timeshare developer. The market clearly preferred the newer weeks concept and that is what crossed the Atlantic.

Saw your clip and write up concerning "Paradise Lost" and feel that the reporting and Mr. Fagerberg are a bit shallow.

Festiva, other than having resorts in North Carolina and being based in beautiful Asheville (near where my family has a vacation home), is little different from any of the other timeshare/resort developers out there.

Timeshare is timeshare, whether it is an older weeks based product like many of the ones on the Outer Banks, the newer points based product that is the current model, or a blend of the two.

Mr Fagerberg, heard what he wanted to hear and bought into Festiva's program which, from what I know, is quite nice and even includes weeks on catamarans in the Caribbean. Timeshare salesmen depend on customers hearing what they want to hear. Timeshares are a great invention but are drastically overpriced. Mr. Fagerberg paid $18,000 for points that would get him a week somewhere. So, 51 others pay the same and Festiva gets almost $1,000,000 for a condo that may be worth $200,000 if sold conventionally. There's a lot of profit there and more on the way as Festiva probably is in total control of the annual Maintenance Fee.

Every new retail timeshare owner thinks that they can call in today and get whatever they want at Atlantic Beach, the Caribbean, or Hawaii in the summer; or New York City anytime. The real truth is that all the owners have access to the inventory at probably one year ahead of time and the savvy users are booking in that first hour that popular times become available in inventory, thus the answer to Mr. Fagerberg of "not this year." He was asking for something that savvy owners had already booked.

I would love to give you an interview or point you to the right sources to give your audience. I am an educated timeshare owner who is very happy with timeshare.

[Spence Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Spence]

I bow to your European experiences and coastal Carolina knowledge and don't disagree, but Hapimag isn't on anyone's radar except yours and DELTAs. I have the same sort of knowledge about US points systems in early years such as Vacation Internationale, but the exception is not always the right thing to key on and would certainly not benefit my letter and my statement:

Timeshare is timeshare, whether it is AN older weeks based product like many of the ones on the Outer Banks, the newer points based product that is the current model, or a blend of the two.

is true, read it again with feeling, it doesn't have to say (but you know about Hapimag and VI, right?)

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

No one said that allegations against this company or the many similar ones against all other timeshare developers didn't have substance, but an educated consumer can easily see through the rogue saleswoman's half truths. If something is too good to be true, it's probably not true. It's too bad that the system devised to retail timeshares is fraught with abuses.

I agree & was thinking similar thoughts when reading current stuff about Festiva & Wastegate. Sure, they are bad, badder than bad, but the whole concept and method of selling timeshares is fraud, as is just about everything that comes out of a sales weasels mouth.

Like the audacity of comparing it in any fashion to real real estate, suggesting that it will go up in value, which even in the case of real real estate is not always the case. Except with TS, the sales weasel knows it's a lie when they say it. They know it is virtually worthless when the new owner walks out the door and they know that new owner is on his own when he discovers how worthless it is.

Where I disagree is that everyone should be able to recognize that. When you don;t know anything about TS, and you are sitting in that room with 500 other people and you and they are all being told these things, a reasonable person would think they could not say them if they weren't true.

& that is the fallacy of prosecuting some companies, cuz they are all based on lies.

[Spence Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Spence]

I agree & was thinking similar thoughts when reading current stuff about Festiva & Wastegate. Sure, they are bad, badder than bad, but the whole concept and method of selling timeshares is fraud, as is just about everything that comes out of a sales weasels mouth.

Like the audacity of comparing it in any fashion to real real estate, suggesting that it will go up in value, which even in the case of real real estate is not always the case. Except with TS, the sales weasel knows it's a lie when they say it. They know it is virtually worthless when the new owner walks out the door and they know that new owner is on his own when he discovers how worthless it is.

Where I disagree is that everyone should be able to recognize that. When you don;t know anything about TS, and you are sitting in that room with 500 other people and you and they are all being told these things, a reasonable person would think they could not say them if they weren't true.

& that is the fallacy of prosecuting some companies, cuz they are all based on lies.

But they don't say that it will go up in value.... the mark 'hears' that when they're told

• there will be a rise in prices next quarter just like last
• you can leave it to your kids

the mark wants on that bandwagon so bad when they hear those corks popping, too.

I did the math when I went to my first timeshare presentation, I could tell they were selling hype. It's not rocket science.

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

Yup.

It was 20 years ago, but I remember that first week of tours we took in Orlando, on the first real vacation we had taken together. We had never heard of, or, of course, considered timeshare. We were what they were looking for . . . and still are today. Bumpkins who fell off the turnip truck.

Things are said, or not said, in order that the peeps believe what they want to believe, just like you are saying. I still remember all of the misconceptions I formed that week, and the years it took to learn they were not true.

It is done that way intentionally, by omission and commission. If important things are covered, it is done in such a way that a neophyte has no way of understanding what it means. Or, it is covered in those multiple pages of fine print that are presented with words like, "Sign here . . . . That, that's just the formalities . . . don't worry about it."

The industry has made no attempt to police itself, to be sure that prospects really understand what they are buying, and the same old today only, fear of loss scare tactics are still being use, the same tactics pots and pans salespeople use.

We here could make a short list of things that every prospects needs to be told, needs to understand, needs to be presented verbally and in writing, in BIG BOLD type.

Yeah, I know, if deception was not allowed, there would be few buyers.

Frinstance, what if they had to show you eBay, that the same thing is not even getting a bid there!!!

With the Internet, and the easy availability of truth, more people are becoming educated, and alienated against timeshares. But when you are sitting there hearing it you still say to yourself, "Self, if it is not true they wouldn't be saying it."

[Spence Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Spence]

Yup.

It was 20 years ago, but I remember that first week of tours we took in Orlando, on the first real vacation we had taken together. We had never heard of, or, of course, considered timeshare. We were what they were looking for . . . and still are today. Bumpkins who fell off the turnip truck.

Things are said, or not said, in order that the peeps believe what they want to believe, just like you are saying. I still remember all of the misconceptions I formed that week, and the years it took to learn they were not true.

It is done that way intentionally, by omission and commission. If important things are covered, it is done in such a way that a neophyte has no way of understanding what it means. Or, it is covered in those multiple pages of fine print that are presented with words like, "Sign here . . . . That, that's just the formalities . . . don't worry about it."

The industry has made no attempt to police itself, to be sure that prospects really understand what they are buying, and the same old today only, fear of loss scare tactics are still being use, the same tactics pots and pans salespeople use.

We here could make a short list of things that every prospects needs to be told, needs to understand, needs to be presented verbally and in writing, in BIG BOLD type.

Yeah, I know, if deception was not allowed, there would be few buyers.

Frinstance, what if they had to show you eBay, that the same thing is not even getting a bid there!!!

With the Internet, and the easy availability of truth, more people are becoming educated, and alienated against timeshares. But when you are sitting there hearing it you still say to yourself, "Self, if it is not true they wouldn't be saying it."

Please tell me your plans for the retail mattress industry.

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

Please tell me your plans for the retail mattress industry.

I thought you bought resale.

[T. R. Oglodyte Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close T. R. Oglodyte]

Please tell me your plans for the retail mattress industry.

Are you talking about "lays" or "lies"? Not the same thing. Though of course getting lays often involves making lies.