Okay, why not just turn the tables?

[BoardGirl Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close BoardGirl]

Quite to the contrary, I do feel like I'm in control.

I have control of when and where - busy on my deeded week? Let it ride, and book another week or long weekend at another of the several resorts. The system doesn't care whether I use my week or not, and isn't going to have substantial gain either way, as it is expected that I will use my points before they expire. They're already paid for - there's no real gain to the company if I don't use them, especially since I travel offseason - the unit I would have taken would in most likelihood not have been taken by a renter.

I understand what you're saying, but, what's the big deal to make a phone call one time a year? I agree - if that's too much hassle for you, stay put in fixed weeks. Makes more room for me at LAI.

RCI Points, I won't comment on - I don't em, don't plan to.

[T. R. Oglodyte Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close T. R. Oglodyte]

How am I losing control when I get to choose when to visit? How am I losing control when I can decide what day of the week I want to check in?

I can split one of my weeks into two weeks. How am I losing control when I can choose whether I want to stay two weeks in a smaller unit or in offseason or stay one week in a larger unit or during prime.

Taking away someone's ability to choose does not inprove their control; it diminishes their control.

If I go to the produce department in a supermarket and there is a huge variety of fruit and produce, I am in control because I can choose what I want. If I go and the only thing they stock are Braeburn apples, then I have no control over my ability to choose what I want.

[Carolinian Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Carolinian]

You lose control with an automatic deposit made without any act by the timeshare owner. If someone forgets the deadline,usually far in advance, that they have to act to save their own week from being automatically deposited, then they are out of luck.

An automatic deposit system stinks, pure and simple!

You do not address the issue, which is the automatic deposit system. You probably like the automatic membership renewal idea that RCI came out with for Points (until the NC Real Estate Commission forced them to drop it), which is based on exactly the same concept.

How am I losing control when I get to choose when to visit? How am I losing control when I can decide what day of the week I want to check in?

I can split one of my weeks into two weeks. How am I losing control when I can choose whether I want to stay two weeks in a smaller unit or in offseason or stay one week in a larger unit or during prime.

Taking away someone's ability to choose does not inprove their control; it diminishes their control.

If I go to the produce department in a supermarket and there is a huge variety of fruit and produce, I am in control because I can choose what I want. If I go and the only thing they stock are Braeburn apples, then I have no control over my ability to choose what I want.

[timeos2 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close timeos2]

What time do I get up? What if I forget?

You lose control with an automatic deposit made without any act by the timeshare owner. If someone forgets the deadline,usually far in advance, that they have to act to save their own week from being automatically deposited, then they are out of luck.

An automatic deposit system stinks, pure and simple!

You do not address the issue, which is the automatic deposit system. You probably like the automatic membership renewal idea that RCI came out with for Points (until the NC Real Estate Commission forced them to drop it), which is based on exactly the same concept.

Every once and a while the logic gets so stretched as to be humorus. How hard is it to remember to decide if you want your week to use or in points? If someone can't remember that they shouldn't be walking the earth without a full time support staff. Trying to make fixed flexible and flexible less valuable than fixed are losing arguments.

[T. R. Oglodyte Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close T. R. Oglodyte]

You lose control with an automatic deposit made without any act by the timeshare owner. If someone forgets the deadline,usually far in advance, that they have to act to save their own week from being automatically deposited, then they are out of luck.

An automatic deposit system stinks, pure and simple!

You do not address the issue, which is the automatic deposit system. You probably like the automatic membership renewal idea that RCI came out with for Points (until the NC Real Estate Commission forced them to drop it), which is based on exactly the same concept.

Steve - now you've gone and completely confused me. You've really got to help me out.

As far as I know, I don't own a single timeshare that has automatic deposit. But, as I mentioned in the post you are responding to, I have freedom to choose when I travel, to pick my check-in date, even to split my week. That sounds like I have fliexibilty, and I don't have that vile, evil, foul automatic deposit system that you assure us is the bane of humanity.

So what have I missed??

[BoardGirl Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close BoardGirl]

You lose control with an automatic deposit made without any act by the timeshare owner. If someone forgets the deadline,usually far in advance, that they have to act to save their own week from being automatically deposited, then they are out of luck.

An automatic deposit system stinks, pure and simple!

You do not address the issue, which is the automatic deposit system. You probably like the automatic membership renewal idea that RCI came out with for Points (until the NC Real Estate Commission forced them to drop it), which is based on exactly the same concept.

OK, so you don't like "automatic deposit." That's fine and completely explains why you want a fixed week.

In a system such as Bluegreen, "deposit" only occurs to an outside exchange, after you reserve a week, yours or another, and you specifically request that deposit. There is no auto deposit. True, there is also no auto-reserve, you must take action to get your week.

It's not an "oh crap! I didn't make the call! Now I'll never get to go there Week x!" It's more of calling up to see how many are available and which unit you want. Significant difference. Yes, let's assume there are popular places at popular times with limited availability and you could miss the boat. For me, one week versus another makes very little difference, but from the sound of it, the specific week is very important to you, and that's fine = we all like what we like.

Bluegreen doesn't have deposit and doesn't have exchange. We have points and we have reservations. Points are paid for annually as maintenance, reservations are free.

So, from what you say, I agree that a system like Bluegreen would not be for you. Keep your week, or roll the dice with RCI or DAE or II or whatever the exchange.

Again, I make no comments about RCI Points, because I don't own them. I'm just, hah, Pointing Out, that one definition does not fit all systems. Automatic deposit may exist in some systems, but not in all. Exchange is another term that can be tricky as it implies a trade while that's not always the case.

[T. R. Oglodyte Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close T. R. Oglodyte]

Every once and a while the logic gets so stretched as to be humorus. How hard is it to remember to decide if you want your week to use or in points? If someone can't remember that they shouldn't be walking the earth without a full time support staff. Trying to make fixed flexible and flexible less valuable than fixed are losing arguments.

John - don't you just hate it when your paycheck gets automatically deposited in the bank without any control by you as to whether and when it gets deposited.

Talk about lack of flexibility. If you've got several checking accounts, you don't have any ability to control which account the check gets deposited into, not without filing a bunch of paperwork. You've always got to remember which account the check was deposited into or else you might start bouncing checks.

[BocaBum99 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close BocaBum99]

I'd like for any Carolinian supporter to come to his defense on this topic. Not in general, just on these last 10 posts. Can anyone on this board support what he is saying?

[BocaBum99 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close BocaBum99]

Young Girl or Old Woman?

Early in my career, when I was promoted into my very first managerial assignment, I went to management training with Mike. Mike was an incredibly smart person, but nobody could figure out why he was always disagreeing with everyone on topics that seemed obvious to everyone else.

In the middle of this training, the instructor put up a picture and asked everyone what they saw. It was the famous picture of the Young Girl and Old woman. Eventually, everyone in the class saw both the young girl and the old woman except for Mike. We then understood Mike better after that. He was just incapable of seeing the old woman. All he saw was the young girl.

Here is the picture. What do you see?

[Carolinian Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Carolinian]

Automatic deposit happens in point systems like RCI Points, where you have to take an action to keep your own week, and, yes, there have been complaints of people not remembering 11 or 12 months in advance to take action to keep their week. That obviously would not be the case in a pure points system.

I have owned floating weeks, used for exchange, and find fixed weeks much more convenient for that purpose. Some floating resorts limit how far in advance you can reserve a specific week, which is a pain and can hurt trading power. If a floating week resort also bulkbanks, then exchangers often get hosed on trading power. Give me a fixed week any day. When you know what it is that you have, you can deposit it as early as the exchange company will take it, and that can be years in advance if you want. For my purposes, as long as I can be sure I have a full year in advance, it meets my exchange needs.

[T. R. Oglodyte Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close T. R. Oglodyte]

Automatic deposit happens in point systems like RCI Points, where you have to take an action to keep your own week, and, yes, there have been complaints of people not remembering 11 or 12 months in advance to take action to keep their week. That obviously would not be the case in a pure points system.

I have owned floating weeks, used for exchange, and find fixed weeks much more convenient for that purpose. Some floating resorts limit how far in advance you can reserve a specific week, which is a pain and can hurt trading power. If a floating week resort also bulkbanks, then exchangers often get hosed on trading power. Give me a fixed week any day. When you know what it is that you have, you can deposit it as early as the exchange company will take it, and that can be years in advance if you want. For my purposes, as long as I can be sure I have a full year in advance, it meets my exchange needs.

And I know fixed week owners who had a change in plans a couple of months before their week and were forced to make a late deposit and got hosed on trade power.

But when that happened to me with my floating week resort that bulk banks, I was able to get bulk deposited week that had full trade power. It was a pretty good week, too. It was a far, far better deal than I would have gotten had I had I been forced to depost with a fixed week.

I suspect there are a lot more people who have changes in plans than there are people who forget to reserve a unit at their resort.

[Sydney Contributor - Bronze Find all posts View Profile Close Sydney]

I see a young girl with a slit in her throat. Ewww.

Early in my career, when I was promoted into my very first managerial assignment, I went to management training with Mike. Mike was an incredibly smart person, but nobody could figure out why he was always disagreeing with everyone on topics that seemed obvious to everyone else.

In the middle of this training, the instructor put up a picture and asked everyone what they saw. It was the famous picture of the Young Girl and Old woman. Eventually, everyone in the class saw both the young girl and the old woman except for Mike. We then understood Mike better after that. He was just incapable of seeing the old woman. All he saw was the young girl.

Here is the picture. What do you see?

[ArtsieAng Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close ArtsieAng]

I see a young girl with a slit in her throat. Ewww.

..........

[timeos2 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close timeos2]

Once I see the witch like face it's hard to see the swan!

[Carolinian Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Carolinian]

When I think of people who own to use, I think of owners at the three resorts I own or have owned at on the OBX.

At the first resort I bought at, a significant majority of summer owners originally bought from the developer about 20 years ago, and the weeks have never changed hands. Those that have, usually went to family members. These people dropped their exchange company membership as soon as the period paid for by the developer ran out, and they never looked back. They come down every year, know the other people who own their week and indeed often become almost like family. The concept of going to a different resort or even coming down a different week when they wouldn't see the other families they have come to know would be quite foreign to them.

For an own to use example, I also think of an older lady at another resort who died about a year and a half ago. She and her husband had bought four February weeks from the developer, and also dropped the exchange company membership at the first opportunity. Her husband had died quite some time ago, but she and her entourage of cats continued to arrive every February for her month at the beach. Every weekend, she put on a cocktail party and invited everyone at the resort, including the staff. The other own to use people during her weeks she came to know over the years, and regularly invited them over to her unit for dinner.

Granted, many of the resorts on the OBX have less than 30 units, and perhaps it is easier for timesharers to develop friendships with other owners in a smaller resort than it would be at a mega resort, but this is a big part of the own to use experience from my observations. I cannot imagine that a vague ownership that encompassed 50 resorts could ever generate the same sort of relationships. The floating week resorts would also come up short in this regard.

I myself exchange much more often than I use my week, but I recognize that I am in the minority in that regard.

What I find limiting in the mini-systems is that while they may have 50-60 weeks in their stable, only a few of those would be in my top destinations. I do not find them a good bet for exchanging for that reason. The one that would probably come closest to my needs would be Hapimag. I recently stopped in at the new Hapimag resort on a medieval street on Castle Hill in Budapest while I was in that city and picked up one of their brochures. They have 8-10 resorts I would probably be interested in, but not enough to entice me to join unless I found an incredibly good resale deal (which is unlikely given their buy-back program).

Uh huh. And they can lay claim to it and do with it as they wish. Or, as you suggest, remain an owner of a week in one resort. I have the best of both worlds - use, or reserve for whatever, the week I bought or use my stake in the system to do something else.

Making a phone call once a year doesn't seem "book of the month" to me. Maybe "book of the year". We obviously know different people, as my fellow Bluegreenians don't seem to have a problem making phone calls for reservations.

I own to use in-network, which is not quite the same as exchanging. I can't imagine going the same place every year, year after year. This is why there are different programs for different people.

If you owned LAI in BGVC, you also could have the best of both worlds if you would only make that one phone call to reserve it the years you want it, and spend your points elsewhere other times.