Okay, why not just turn the tables?

[BocaBum99 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close BocaBum99]

I'm not in RCI Points, and don't plan to be. I WANT CASH!

I want tax free cash. I agree with you that one of RCI Points biggest limitations is that you cannot get cash for your points. You can with every other point system.

I am not sure what Katiemack was suggesting. I thought it was cash she was looking for. Evidently, others on this board thought it was an exchange opportunity.

[BoardGirl Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close BoardGirl]

Tax free would certainly be nice, but you can jack up the rate high enuf so that after-tax is a good deal. Wouldn't that be fun?? "How bad do you want it, RCI?" Maybe I should be following EV a bit more closely...

I, too, presumed the OP was talking CASH.

[Carolinian Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Carolinian]

Wrong! I am applying my experience from something that operates in a very similar manner - frequent flyer miles. There were also some posts on TImeshareTalk from some who had joined RCI Points and found the very same principles were working in RCI Points.

It is probably softened a good bit right now from what it would be in a just-points arrangement by the fact that Points members can raid Weeks through the generic grids and at a bargain basement price. Why reserve their own inventory, at least for the high demand weeks, when they can snatch prime Weeks inventory for less points? This would tend to leave more in the Points pot longer, but from the posts on TimeshareTalk, inventory evaporation when the window opens IS happening in RCI Points, nonetheless.

Of course, it also depends on where you want to go. You can probably always find Orlando, and with all the Points resorts there, Hawaii, but probably not so London or Paris. Again the high demand, low supply places are going to vanish soon after the window opens. Weeks deposits, on the other hand, are coming in all the time.

You are applying the "weeks attitude" to points users. It doesn't happen that way as people are very careful to utilize their points to their best advantage. They don't grab the best as soon as its out there just because its there as it costs them their annual usage. They are selective and may alter use to get the best value. They also have the ability to bank, borrow and rent points to get to the number needed. Try that in weeks. Your example of grab it or its gone - maybe for good doesn't apply either. Next year the same resorts are available all over again for a fresh round of owners deciding how to best use their ownership value. In weeks they may really be gone if no one deposits again.

We have jumped on day one to get a specific resort/date or unit size a few times regardless of point cost if it was really important to us. We had no problem getting what we wanted in multiple points based systems. We have far more often taken our time and decided 6-8 months out what we wanted and used less points. A few times we have waited to the last couple months and got deep discounts and still went where we wanted in a reasonably sized unit. In 10 years we have wasted just 1000 points - those were worth about $20 in annual fees in that system.

It is very obvious you have never been in a points system when you say these things as it is a different operation entirely than the weeks "grab it or its gone 18-24 months out" world. You should relax and join a kinder, gentler request and fulfillment process in a good points based exchange system.

[BocaBum99 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close BocaBum99]

It is probably softened a good bit right now from what it would be in a just-points arrangement by the fact that Points members can raid Weeks through the generic grids and at a bargain basement price. Why reserve their own inventory, at least for the high demand weeks, when they can snatch prime Weeks inventory for less points? This would tend to leave more in the Points pot longer, but from the posts on TimeshareTalk, inventory evaporation when the window opens IS happening in RCI Points, nonetheless.

Carolinian,

If you had actually used RCI Points, like Dani has, you would come to the same conclusion that she did..... the crossover grid bargains you think so much of are not that great. In fact, I don't ever do it anymore because the deals I get from straight week for week trade ups are drastically superior.

I have made exactly 2 crossover trades from RCI Points to RCI weeks. I made those trades as my first 2 exchanges. One is for the Morritt's Grand and the other is for Club Regency in Marco Island. Both for this summer. Not peak time, but decent trades in my book. Now that I own several weeks, I could have gotten both of those exchanges for much cheaper using my weeks account.

The other problem is that in the time it took me to wait for those exchanges to actually reach check in (they haven't yet), I have already experienced a lifetime worth of timesharing stays.

Heck, I just learned about Lodge Alley Inn in the past couple weeks from you. And, I'll be going there next month for a couple of days to check out Charleston and this resort.

What I really don't understand is why you don't add a couple of point resorts to your portfolio and travel up and down the East Coast on weekend trips. Is it really because you would then have to admit that points are good and you don't want to admit that you were wrong?

[taffy19 Gold Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close taffy19]

Substitute the word money for points and you get the exact same answer. Unless you own the property there are no guarantees no matter what system you participate in. It is strictly a matter of using the most likely to succeed.

In order they are:

1) Own It. You pay a lot but you know it will be there.
2) Rent It. You may get a deal or you may pay more than owning would cost but you can always negotiate the price upward until it becomes "available". This may be the most flexible way to get use time. If the price exceeds the value to you then YOU have decided it isn't worth the cost. Thats how a market distributes product.
3) Points based exchanges. See rental above with the added limitations of what properties may be in a given system and less ability to "raise the stakes" as the values are set and it is a first come - first served assignment. The risk of not getting what you want is rising. And as you say you are under a timeline restriction that would not apply to rentals.
4) Week for week trade. Same as points above in that the properties in the system may be limited and with many more restrictions. You don't know what your deposit is worth nor what the one you want requires in trade value. No room to neogotiate price as you already gave up your value when you assigned the exchange company your time and they won't tell you what you need to get the property you desire. Risk of failure extremely high but the occasional reward can be high as well. Do you feel lucky? Risk of loss of your week is very high if you refuse to take what is offered. Tight time line.

Simplified of course but that is the general way they work.

Imho, you are wrong as this is exactly what I like about fixed weeks and fixed units timeshares and you do not have to own a condo outright. We have a few of these type of timeshares and we are very happy with each one of them. No hassle to get them as they are waiting for us each year and we know too what to expect for a view. I like fixed units and fixed weeks and more than one week together, if possible! We have that at the Maui Sunset. We will never sell it until we die and we bought here in 1983 or 4. We got our monies worth. We tried to add two more weeks but nobody is selling and the few, who are, want full price and are not the views or time period we want. They have a list of buyers for January and February so they don't need to sell cheap and I don't blame them.

[taffy19 Gold Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close taffy19]

I would have to agree with this statement. It's too bad that many who criticize point systems have actually never experienced the good and bad of those systems. They are really missing out.

As an example, just this past week, here is what I booked in Bluegreen. Many weeks owners would probably be willing to put in a request 3-4 years in advance of check in to get these weeks:

1) July 22-29 in a 2 bedroom, 2 bath unit at Lodge Alley Inn.

2) Feb 17-24 in a 2 bedroom ocean view unit in La Cabana Beach and Racquet Club in Aruba.

3) Aug 11-18 in a 2 bedroom Cabin at Big Cedar.

Boca, I agree with you completely if you want to go to different places often. However, if you want to return to your "home away from home" at a place that you really like and not spend the big bucks of owning a condo outright, then fixed units/fixed weeks are better. It has to be both (fixed week/fixed time) otherwise it would not work so you must decide what view you want and what time is best for you.

It is ironic that the Marriot Ocean Club is going back to fixed weeks/fixed units again and they are selling like hotcakes and even multiple weeks at a time. We saw it with our own eyes as people were buying while we were there.

[Carolinian Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Carolinian]

I can read the numbers in the Points book. The bargain basement prices are all over the place in PRIME time. Yes, if you are going in pink season, the overaveraging means a crossover is not a good deal. Overaveraging means you have to give way too many points for a pink week but way too few for a peak red week.

Let me give you an example from the Points book (the last one; I don't have the current one as the friend who bailed out of Points in disgust and gave me the book is no longer a member), two almost identical resorts in the BVI, both sailing catamrans based in Road Town, Tortola in similar size units for peak weeks:

Trade Winds Cruise Club-British Virgin Islands (Points resort) 116,000 points

The Yachting Club-Tortola (then a Weeks resort) 24,000 points

I understand that The Yachting Club has since knuckled under and also become a points resort. With value discrimination like that, such a move is probably no surprise.

BTW, my long weekends do not tend to be on the east coast. My last few, except for one in Washington, DC that was partly business, were in Germany/Poland, Mallorca, and London. The ones I am looking at in this year are Northern Ireland and Bulgaria. Short t/s stays would not have been practical for any of them.

Carolinian,

If you had actually used RCI Points, like Dani has, you would come to the same conclusion that she did..... the crossover grid bargains you think so much of are not that great. In fact, I don't ever do it anymore because the deals I get from straight week for week trade ups are drastically superior.

I have made exactly 2 crossover trades from RCI Points to RCI weeks. I made those trades as my first 2 exchanges. One is for the Morritt's Grand and the other is for Club Regency in Marco Island. Both for this summer. Not peak time, but decent trades in my book. Now that I own several weeks, I could have gotten both of those exchanges for much cheaper using my weeks account.

The other problem is that in the time it took me to wait for those exchanges to actually reach check in (they haven't yet), I have already experienced a lifetime worth of timesharing stays.

Heck, I just learned about Lodge Alley Inn in the past couple weeks from you. And, I'll be going there next month for a couple of days to check out Charleston and this resort.

What I really don't understand is why you don't add a couple of point resorts to your portfolio and travel up and down the East Coast on weekend trips. Is it really because you would then have to admit that points are good and you don't want to admit that you were wrong?

[Carolinian Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Carolinian]

It is interesting the Marriott has seemed to finally comprehend that the larger part of the timeshare market is not exchangers but owning to use. Of the resorts I am familiar with on the OBX, the percent who exchange is a bit under 30% and that percentage tends to gradually decline the longer a resort is open. A points product would not seem to have much appeal at all to the own to use market.

Boca, I agree with you completely if you want to go to different places often. However, if you want to return to your "home away from home" at a place that you really like and not spend the big bucks of owning a condo outright, then fixed units/fixed weeks are better. It has to be both (fixed week/fixed time) otherwise it would not work so you must decide what view you want and what time is best for you.

It is ironic that the Marriot Ocean Club is going back to fixed weeks/fixed units again and they are selling like hotcakes and even multiple weeks at a time. We saw it with our own eyes as people were buying while we were there.

[timeos2 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close timeos2]

Fixed is a special case use only

Boca, I agree with you completely if you want to go to different places often. However, if you want to return to your "home away from home" at a place that you really like and not spend the big bucks of owning a condo outright, then fixed units/fixed weeks are better. It has to be both (fixed week/fixed time) otherwise it would not work so you must decide what view you want and what time is best for you.

It is ironic that the Marriot Ocean Club is going back to fixed weeks/fixed units again and they are selling like hotcakes and even multiple weeks at a time. We saw it with our own eyes as people were buying while we were there.

How is it "better" to be locked into a specific week - say 4th of July, as good as that is, than being able to pick each year from any use week either from float time or points based ownership at your home resort? I'm referring of course to an area that you'd want to use at various times of year such as FL and not an extremely seasonal area such as Cape Cod. No matter how carefully selected the fixed week may be it means you have to plan your use around those dates. Maybe it works OK 4 out of 7 years but what about those other three? Exchange back into your own resort at extra hassle and expense? It is so much better to have the flexibility to look at your desired vacation schedule and pick the exact times you want based on the current school calendar or local festivals or other events not being forced to use fixed week XX when you really want YY.

I can see exceptions for the seasonal places and maybe even a resort that has the main draw of a special view or unit type but that comes at the cost of flexible scheduling. As long as the trade off is acceptable it may be OK but usually I prefer to have a free choice. My portfolio is all pick & choose time with the exception of Cape Cod where there are only 8-10 weeks of truly prime use time and unless you own one of those you aren't likely to get one easily. It has it's place but not for the majority of cases.

[timeos2 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close timeos2]

Owning in points is owning to use

It is interesting the Marriott has seemed to finally comprehend that the larger part of the timeshare market is not exchangers but owning to use. Of the resorts I am familiar with on the OBX, the percent who exchange is a bit under 30% and that percentage tends to gradually decline the longer a resort is open. A points product would not seem to have much appeal at all to the own to use market.

I agree that own to use is a key to happy timesharing. However own to use in a mini-system such as Sunterra or FF or many others means your "home use" can be any of 50 or more resorts! You don't need to exchange or pay extra as the use of multiple resorts is included in your ownership. It is a key reason the majority of points owners are so satisfied with being timeshare owners while many weeks owners are disillusioned. Own to use is a great rule as long as your ownership matches with your desired use. How much easier it is for that to happen when the use can be all over the country or world rather than one fixed resort/area.

[BoardGirl Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close BoardGirl]

In the Bluegreen points system, you can reserve your own week a year in advance. Kind of the best of both worlds. Play it fixed or play it points. Your choice every year. Personally, I want a different experience each time, and 50 resorts is actually quite a bit, until you stack it against 3500, but, I don't expect to live long enuf to visit that many resorts anyway.

[Carolinian Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Carolinian]

''Owning'' at 50 plus resorts is an exchange use. It doesn't fit the expectations of the own to use people I know. I fits more the expectations of exchangers.

I agree that own to use is a key to happy timesharing. However own to use in a mini-system such as Sunterra or FF or many others means your "home use" can be any of 50 or more resorts! You don't need to exchange or pay extra as the use of multiple resorts is included in your ownership. It is a key reason the majority of points owners are so satisfied with being timeshare owners while many weeks owners are disillusioned. Own to use is a great rule as long as your ownership matches with your desired use. How much easier it is for that to happen when the use can be all over the country or world rather than one fixed resort/area.

[Carolinian Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Carolinian]

Many people do not care for a ''Book of the Month Club'' arrangement where you have to remember to take some action to keep your week, especially if you bought it to use, not trade, in the first place. They would rather have control of their week until and unless they decide to give it up for exchange, rental, etc.

In the Bluegreen points system, you can reserve your own week a year in advance. Kind of the best of both worlds. Play it fixed or play it points. Your choice every year. Personally, I want a different experience each time, and 50 resorts is actually quite a bit, until you stack it against 3500, but, I don't expect to live long enuf to visit that many resorts anyway.

[BoardGirl Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close BoardGirl]

Uh huh. And they can lay claim to it and do with it as they wish. Or, as you suggest, remain an owner of a week in one resort. I have the best of both worlds - use, or reserve for whatever, the week I bought or use my stake in the system to do something else.

Making a phone call once a year doesn't seem "book of the month" to me. Maybe "book of the year". We obviously know different people, as my fellow Bluegreenians don't seem to have a problem making phone calls for reservations.

I own to use in-network, which is not quite the same as exchanging. I can't imagine going the same place every year, year after year. This is why there are different programs for different people.

If you owned LAI in BGVC, you also could have the best of both worlds if you would only make that one phone call to reserve it the years you want it, and spend your points elsewhere other times.

[Carolinian Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Carolinian]

A "book of the month club plan" refers to a scheme whereby a company gets some benefit from a customers failure to act, as opposed to the normal business situation where a customer has to take a positive action for the business to receive the benefit.

Personally, I prefer to not either order a book or deposit a timeshare week without myself having initiated a deliberate action to do so.

Until the North Carolina Real Estate Commission stopped them, RCI had set up RCI Points where membership renewals were also supposed to operate on the Book of the Month plan. You were automatically renewed for five years unless you remembered to cancel a year before your membership ran out.

Apparently the points world does not want timeshareers to be in complete control of their own decisions.