Thinking about buying at Smugglers' Notch

[kmhoppes Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close kmhoppes]

Hi everyone,

We just returned from a week at Smugglers' and we're considering purchasing a 2 bedroom unit for a week (or two) in July. We could use some advice. Lots of questions!

My first question: What are the advantages of timeshare ownership? It seems like you pay $10,000 for the timeshare, another $500-700 annual maintenance fee per week, plus you have to pay $300 or so to actually use the week. Couldn't I rent for a week for less than this would cost?

Should we buy directly from Smuggs? We only want 1 or 2 weeks, so the new North Hill development isn't for us. Do they offer sales in other areas, like The Willows (where we stayed)

If we go the resale route, what is the best company to go through, or should we try a private sale? Are any websites particularly sketchy? Any that have good reputations?

How do I know how much I should pay? The units I've seen for sale on various websites seem to be going for close to $20,0000, but any deals that seem to go through are for under $10,000, even closer to $5,000.

We have 2 young children, and would love to take advantage of the camps. I hear conflicting information about the owner package. What does it include? Does it transfer in a resale? Is it worth it?

Thanks very much for taking the time to respond. Everything I've read on this forum leads me to believe everyone here is knowledgeable and friendly, too!

[Kentonmag Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Kentonmag]

You appear to have chosen one of those few timeshare resorts that still have some value as I've been on to all my saved sites and the only one advertising Smugglers is Redweek.com. One floating week recently sold for $5,000 and the next cheapest available week is a fixed week (25) for $5,750.
Usually with plenty of timeshares you can pick them up on ebay for less than $1,000 you then normally pay the closing costs plus the yearly maintenance fee, that typically adds another $1,000 give or take a $100.
As you are looking for 2 weeks that maybe harder again to find but I wouldn't be rushed, you will find as it gets closer to year end most people have to pay their 2010 maintenance fees again by end of Jan 2010. You normally get great deals at that time.
You could also look into buying 1 week in Smugglers and another week in a resort close by, providing the weeks run consecutive.

[tonyg Goomba & Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close tonyg]

If I recall correctly, resale buyers do not get free camps or some activities. This makes it one of the few resorts who discriminate against resale buyers and this discrimination actually reduces resale value. I believe we have at least one owner here who will probably give you the facts after the holiday.

[Theo Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Theo]

Not exactly...

....advertising Smugglers is Redweek.com. One floating week recently sold for $5,000 and the next cheapest available week is a fixed week (25) for $5,750.

That's not necessarily (or likely) an accurate statement on the "sold" price....

RedWeek posts "for sale" ads and when the seller later "takes down" the ad after selling, the listing is then indicated by RedWeek as "sold", merely crossing a line through the (still visible) figure at which the week had been previously advertised.

However, RedWeek really has no idea whatsoever about any actual sellling price ultimately reached between buyer and seller, since they are not involved in any way in the transaction after merely posting the ad for the seller. It is certainly reasonable to assume that the advertised price (or asking price) is almost always higher than the actual selling price.

Having sold two weeks on RedWeek myself in recent months (and several others in recent years), I know this observation to be indisputably true. The "sold" numbers on RedWeek always indicate the advertised / asking price --- but without RedWeek ever really knowing the actual figure at which the week was sold between advertising seller and the buyer...

[GrayFal Silver Contributor and supermoderator Find all posts View Profile Close GrayFal]

If I recall correctly, resale buyers do not get free camps or some activities. This makes it one of the few resorts who discriminate against resale buyers and this discrimination actually reduces resale value. I believe we have at least one owner here who will probably give you the facts after the holiday.

I also thnk as Tony does that resale buyers who have stayed at the resort (they have your name, etc) and inquired about sales at the resort will be excluded from FREE camp programs - now that doesn't mean your kids can not attend camp, just that u have to pay for it. But a way to look at this is should I pay $20,000 from the developer to get the free camp for my kids or buy a resale for $5,000 and pay $300ish per week per kid for 10 years they are likely to attend camp???
Something to think about.

The other think is that some/many/all? ownerships are sold as a fixed week in a desirebale season - summer or winter - but also come with a 'float' off-season week that is assigned yearly on a rotating basis requiring you to pay a second MF each year.

I am not an owner but this is what I have learned/observed from reading on TS boards over the years.

[3kids4me Super Moderator and Super Mom Find all posts View Profile Close 3kids4me]

Tony is right; resale buyers don't get the benefits unless they buy through the resort. There are resale units available at the resort...some are privately owned and others are resort owned (if a previous owner traded up, for instance). The other catch is that, if you want a week every year, this also includes a second, off-season week. That week floats around and is sometimes red, and that can help you trade back into the resort but this is not as easy as it used to be and only works for red weeks. Or, if the previous owner had converted to points you would get those instead which may be of more value than a blue float week.

However, you can purchase the benefits, and I would think that maybe you could find a motivated private seller that would make the property inexpensive enough so that when you add on the benefits package it might be worthwhile. The best place to find one is probably the Smuggs Yahoo group (just go to Yahoo groups and find the listing...make sure it's the active one as there have been several groups in the past). There are some owners on there looking to sell their units so you may get lucky.

Smuggs does often change the rules, so before you buy privately you should check with them about the cost of the benefits package.

We love Smuggs (owners for ten years) and do use our timeshare every year. (We bought resale back when benefits were included in the package.) We've been able to use the float week (we did not convert to points) to get back into the resort or exchange for other places. But this is definitely not a timeshare to buy if you are primarily an exchanger, as even the red weeks are not that powerful, and the timeshare is expensive because of the benefits.

[helenbarnett1963 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close helenbarnett1963]

It seems like you pay $10,000 for the timeshare, another $500-700 annual maintenance fee per week, plus you have to pay $300 or so to actually use the week. Couldn't I rent for a week for less than this would cost?

just wondering, what do you mean by "$300 or so to actually use the week" ?

we bought our weeks, pay annual MFs on each week, and then just turn up to use our weeks... no more costs invloved.

[kmhoppes Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close kmhoppes]

Thanks for all the input. We love Smuggs, and would love to make it a family tradition.

Helen: the $300 could be because we were guests of an owner. Maybe our friends had to pay a charge to allow us to use the unit? I'm not sure. I should probably get my story straight.

Thanks again everyone.

Kathleen

[3kids4me Super Moderator and Super Mom Find all posts View Profile Close 3kids4me]

Kathleen,

It sounds like you were guests of an RCI exchanger. Guests of owners don't have to pay that fee. However, currently guests of owners also don't have to pay for the camps, so it would be curious if you didn't have the camp fee but had to pay the $300.

Sharon

P.S. When you rent from an owner, you have to pay all benefits fees (camps and the fixed fee) since they don't transfer.

P.P.S. If you can actually find a resale for $10,000, I would grab it, unless you can't get the benefits package for a reasonable price. Benefits are included with new units, but new units cost at least double that number (for an every other year) or more.

[vinodsaini Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close vinodsaini]

Good Idea

Friend- Your idea is very good.