UK has terror alert in all airports...

[Glitter Brunello Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Glitter Brunello]

We are leaving all the stuff behind, hopefully we won't encounter some ridiculous opportunistic price gauging when we arrive in HI. Katmandu, yes, you can still pack them in your checked luggage. We are not planning to check any luggage, though we'll see... I am toying with the idea of arguing with security about whether spermicide is an essential over-the-counter product

[mshatty Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close mshatty]

Avery,

This is more information than I need or want to know!

[JudyS Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close JudyS]

... I am toying with the idea of arguing with security about whether spermicide is an essential over-the-counter product

I think insulin is considered essential because diabetics have to take their shots at carefully scheduled times, including often needing to inject while on the plane. I suspect the TSA will tell you there is really no good reason why you would need spermicide while on a plane.

[susieq Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close susieq]

I suspect the TSA will tell you there is really no good reason why you would need spermicide while on a plane.

What if you're a member in good standing of the "Mile High Club"!!

[Glitter Brunello Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Glitter Brunello]

I think insulin is considered essential because diabetics have to take their shots at carefully scheduled times, including often needing to inject while on the plane. I suspect the TSA will tell you there is really no good reason why you would need spermicide while on a plane.

Well I can't find the ROTFLMAO icon... a somewhat dated (I hope) reference to the Mile High Club comes to mind, but Mike is right, this is getting too off-color for the forum... sorry everyone... I would edit my post but it has already been quoted

eta: oops, just saw SusieQ's post, I guess it's not such a dated reference...

[Beaglemom3 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Beaglemom3]

We are leaving all the stuff behind, hopefully we won't encounter some ridiculous opportunistic price gauging when we arrive in HI. Katmandu, yes, you can still pack them in your checked luggage. We are not planning to check any luggage, though we'll see... I am toying with the idea of arguing with security about whether spermicide is an essential over-the-counter product

Why am I thinking about an old Woody Allen movie ??? I just have this mental picture of sperm jumping out of the plane...............

[Glitter Brunello Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Glitter Brunello]

Why am I thinking about an old Woody Allen movie ??? I just have this mental picture of sperm jumping out of the plane...............

ok I found it (though not easily)

[nursetanya1973 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close nursetanya1973]

I am curious too about what is considered "essential" non-prescription. I get migraines, therefor my non-prescription cocktail of sinus meds and ibuprofen is essential to me, especially on a plane.

Tanya

[Glitter Brunello Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Glitter Brunello]

I am curious too about what is considered "essential" non-prescription. I get migraines, therefor my non-prescription cocktail of sinus meds and ibuprofen is essential to me, especially on a plane.

Tanya

Tanya,

If your sinus meds are sprays, they will not be allowed for the time being; UNLESS they are prescription and labeled with your name on them. Ibuprofen in pill/tablet form should be ok, it's just liquids they're worried about. We took our necessary stuff back to the pharmacy today, they generated labels for us (they will only do this if they filled the initial prescription; it generally goes on the box, which we don't always keep). Since your sprays are OTC, you might be better off getting a prescription migraine med for plane rides until this restriction is lifted...

Avery

[Beaglemom3 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Beaglemom3]

Hooray for the Bank of England ! They have frozen the assets of 19 of the terrorists (scum bags).


I've posted this before, but feel that this may be appreciated in light of recent events. This is from the sentencing of Richard Reid by a Massachusetts judge and it is so worth reading:

US District Court Judge William Young made the following statement in sentencing "shoe bomber" Richard Reid to prison. It is noteworthy, and deserves to be remembered far longer than he predicts. I commend it to you and to anyone you might wish to forward it to.

January 30, 2003, United States vs. Reid.

Judge Young: Mr. Richard C. Reid, hearken now to the sentence the Court imposes upon you.

On counts 1, 5 and 6 the Court sentences you to life in prison in the custody of the United States Attorney General.

On counts 2, 3, 4 and 7, the Court sentences you to 20 years in prison on each count, the sentence on each count to run consecutive with the other. That's 80 years.

On count 8 the Court sentences you to the mandatory 30 years consecutive to the 80 years just imposed. The Court imposes upon you each of the eight counts a fine of $250,000 for the aggregate fine of $2 million.

The Court accepts the government's recommendation with respect to restitution and orders restitution in the amount of $298.17 to Andre Bousquet and $5,784 to American Airlines.

The Court imposes upon you the $800 special assessment.

The Court imposes upon you five years supervised release simply because the law requires it. But the life sentences are real life sentences so I need go no further.

This is the sentence that is provided for by our statutes. It is a fair and just sentence. It is a righteous sentence. Let me explain this to you.

We are not afraid of any of your terrorist coconspirators, Mr. Reid. We are Americans. We have been through the fire before. There is all too much war talk here. And I say that to everyone with the utmost respect. Here in this court, where we deal with individuals as individuals, and care for individuals as individuals, as human beings we reach out for justice, you are not an enemy combatant. You are a terrorist. You are not a soldier in any war. You are a terrorist. To give you that reference, to call you a soldier gives you far too much stature. Whether it is the officers of government who do it or your attorney who does it, or that happens to be your view, you are a terrorist. And we do not negotiate with terrorists. We do not sign documents with terrorists. We hunt them down one by one and bring them to justice.

So war talk is way out of line in this court. You are a big fellow. But you are not that big. You're no warrior. I know warriors. You are a terrorist. A species of criminal guilty of multiple attempted murders.

In a very real sense Trooper Santiago had it right when you first were taken off that plane and into custody and you wondered where the press and where the TV crews were and he said you're no big deal. You're no big deal.

What your counsel, what your able counsel and what the equally able United States attorneys have grappled with and what I have as honestly as I know how tried to grapple with, is why you did something so horrific. What was it that led you here to this courtroom today? I have listened respectfully to what you have to say. And I ask you to search your heart and ask yourself what sort of unfathomable hate led you to do what you are guilty and admit you are guilty of doing. And I have an answer for you. It may not satisfy you. But as I search this entire record it comes as close to understanding as I know. It seems to me you hate the one thing that is most precious. You hate our freedom. Our individual freedom. Our individual freedom to live as we choose, to come and go as we choose, and to believe or not believe as we individually choose.

Here, in this society, the very winds carry freedom. They carry it everywhere from sea to shining sea. It is because we prize individual freedom so much that you are here in this beautiful courtroom. So that everyone can see, truly see that justice is administered fairly, individually, and discretely. It is for freedom's sake that your lawyers are striving so vigorously on your behalf and have filed appeals, will go on in their, their representation of you before other judges. We are about it. Because we all know that the way we treat you, Mr.Reid, is the measure of our own liberties. Make no mistake though. It is yet true that we will bear any burden, pay any price, to preserve our freedoms.

Look around this courtroom. Mark it well. The world is not going to long remember what you or I say here. Day after tomorrow it will be forgotten. But this, however, will long endure. Here in this courtroom and courtrooms all across America, the American people will gather to see that justice, individual justice, justice, not war, individual justice is in fact being done.

The very President of the United States through his officers will have to come into courtrooms and lay out evidence on which specific matters can be judged, and juries of citizens will gather to sit and judge that evidence democratically, to mold and shape and refine our sense of justice.

See that flag Mr. Reid? That's the flag of the United States of America. That flag will fly there long after this is all forgotten. That flag stands for freedom. You know it always will.

Custody, Mr. Officer. Stand him down. "

[Keitht Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Keitht]

I really think we will have to move to a "trusted passenger" system, where people will submit to background checks before flying, and then be identified biometrically at the airport. Otherwise, flying will just become untenable. I suspect any trusted passenger system will involve ethnic profiling in some form -- for example, maybe people who have spent much time in certain countries such as Afghanistan or Pakistan wouldn't qualify. I know that goes against the egalitarian ideals of western countries, but I don't see a way around it.

A totally unworkable system I fear. I don't know the backgrounds of those who have been arrested in connection with the latest incident, but all of those responsible for the London bombings last year were British born. Some of them had never left the UK.
The US has had 'home grown' bombers in the past too.
Where do you draw the line with those who 'wouldn't qualify'? Saudi Arabia has been the breeding ground for many terrorists, but Saudi Arabia is also a 'friend of the USA'. I can't imagine anything being done to upset the Saudis and the oil supplies.
I don't believe that marginalising large parts of the population will do anything to reduce the problem. What I do believe is required is for the spiritual leaders to stand up and be counted. If they gave out a consistent message that the Koran preaches peace and understanding, not murder, they could go a long way to reduce the appeal. The 'fascist islamic mullahs' who spout the filth that these people buy in to should be kicked out.

[shopgirl Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close shopgirl]

My son worked for TSA for a year, got two of his friends jobs, then he got a much better job and quit. His two friends had their pay reduced by $2.00 an hour about two years go. All TSA employees had pay cuts at that time, which caused huge numbers of people to leave their jobs. They brought new people in quickly without as much training and went back to hiring just anybody. TSA did exactly what some predicted, when the heat was off and their jobs were no longer under the close scrutiny of the government, they lowered pay and the big wigs saved money. I am very cynical as to the job these people are doing, knowing what I know.

Josh's friend Crystal was trying to go to school on her $12.00 per hour job at DEN, she had to quit when her pay went to $10.00.

[JudyS Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close JudyS]

A totally unworkable system I fear. I don't know the backgrounds of those who have been arrested in connection with the latest incident, but all of those responsible for the London bombings last year were British born. Some of them had never left the UK.
The US has had 'home grown' bombers in the past too.
Where do you draw the line with those who 'wouldn't qualify'? Saudi Arabia has been the breeding ground for many terrorists, but Saudi Arabia is also a 'friend of the USA'. I can't imagine anything being done to upset the Saudis and the oil supplies.
I don't believe that marginalising large parts of the population will do anything to reduce the problem. What I do believe is required is for the spiritual leaders to stand up and be counted. If they gave out a consistent message that the Koran preaches peace and understanding, not murder, they could go a long way to reduce the appeal. The 'fascist islamic mullahs' who spout the filth that these people buy in to should be kicked out.

It would be wonderful if all Islamic leaders would preach peace. Unfortunately, I don't see that happening any time soon. Deciding which travellers get singled out for closer scrutiny is something that the US and UK government can control. What Islamic religious leaders (or any religious leaders) preach is something over which our governments have no control. I think deporting religious leaders who criticize the government would be much more of a threat to civil liberties than would be using "ethnic profiling" to decide which travelers to search.

Israel has had 100% success in thwarting terrorist attempts against air flights by focusing on demographic factors -- whether a person is traveling alone or not, what age and gender they are, and yes, what religion they are -- and then closely questioning those who fit their profile of a possible terrorist. As I said, it goes against our ideals to question or search people more closely based on factors such as their ethnicity, but I don't see a way around it.

Such a system might or might not have flagged Timothy McVeigh for close scrutiny, but then, this system would be designed to find suicide bombers. Timothy McVeigh was not a suicide bomber and didn't have any interest in blowing up a flight on which he was a passenger. Terrorists like McVeigh who try to kill others while not injuring themselves would require a different approach. (There are already mechanisms to prevent passengers from putting a bomb in luggage, and then not getting on the plane.)

The problem with focusing on ordinary objects carried aboard is that it just doesn't work. Following 9/11, the emphasis was on sharp objects such as box cutters. So, now terrorists have tried switching to attacks based on liquids in beverage bottles. Note that this latest particular attempt was thwarted by undercover agents, not by baggage screening. Take away people's toothpaste and lipbalm, and terrorists will find other ways to hide things. Unless we are going to subjects airline passengers to full strip searches and body cavity searches, we won't even have a chance of finding everything. In a recent study, US givernment agents were able to sneak actual bomb parts aboard airlines in all 21 cities that they tested.

Cindy, the fact that the US government has cut back on pay for screeners suggests that they don't see baggage screening as all that useful, either. There are many people -- not just conspiracy theorists -- who think the TSA is in airports mostly to reassure the public, rather than to make a substantial dent in the chances of an attack. Let's just hope that whatever else the government is doing, it's more successful.

[Keitht Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Keitht]

I think deporting religious leaders who criticize the government would be much more of a threat to civil liberties than would be using "ethnic profiling" to decide which travelers to search.

I wasn't suggesting deporting people, religious leaders or otherwise, for criticizing the government. They would have to deport half the population in the USA and about 80% in the UK to do that I was referring to those who incite murder, which is what some of them are doing.

Such a system might or might not have flagged Timothy McVeigh for close scrutiny, but then, this system would be designed to find suicide bombers.

The problem with the July 2005 bombers in the UK was that there had been absolutely no indication that at least 2 of the 4 had any political / religious interests, let alone that they would go that far.

(There are already mechanisms to prevent passengers from putting a bomb in luggage, and then not getting on the plane.)

The current incident didn't involve any one person putting a bomb onto a plane, that's why it is such a difficult problem. Seperate components would be carried by a number of people. Each component in isolation is harmless and innocuous, and can be carried for perfectly innocent purposes. It's only when the items are combined that a bomb is created.

The problem with focusing on ordinary objects carried aboard is that it just doesn't work.

I tend to agree that focussing on ordinary objects is of limited value, but without that focus this time round it could have been raining bodies over a number of US cities on Thursday afternoon!! If I have to make a choice of being inconvenienced at the airport or picking up body parts from city streets, I know which option I will take.

[3kids4me Super Moderator and Super Mom Find all posts View Profile Close 3kids4me]

I feel so thankful that my son and I are safe at home. We were on an American Airlines flight from London to JFK...just the kind of flight that was targeted.

By the way, when we arrived at the Glasgow airport for our flight to London, security let us through with just the boarding pass I had printed on the internet, not asking for any other I.D. I found that very disturbing at the time (I mean, someone could have easily picked up a dropped boarding pass!) and mentioned it to the British Airlines counter next to the gate. They were completely unconcerned at the time; I certainly hope that has changed with this latest scare.

Sharon