orange lake resorts class action lawsuit

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

Operator Error

[dougp26364 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close dougp26364]

We are not compainers JLB, we will not be run off. AND we did do our homework, hence why we are All now here. Ten days was hardly enough time to begin to plan how to use the points and arrange for the getaways. Only when we called to set up our first excursion did the reality set in that we had been taken. AND, it ISNT that easy to find things on OL, they find a way to mask things, and to get remedial attention from anyone uncomputerized is very unlikely. We have been doing this since November and really it has been hard getting the information we need. Please try to refrain from putting a negative twist on what we are trying to do here. Thank you,
barandazzo@optonline.net

But 10 days is enough time to research your purchase and read your contract. Especially in this day and age of the internet. All you need to do is type in the words timeshare with any internet search function and you'll find all sorts of information about timeshare in general and, if you type in OLCC specifically.

[tonyg Goomba & Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close tonyg]

Listing one's email on a public forum is not a great idea. I'll bet your spam is already on the increase- and the resale scam sharks will be telling you they have a buyer for Orange Lake properties. I wouldn't be surprised if some OL person will also try to get in your group to see what you are up to.

[dougp26364 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close dougp26364]

Doug,
What government agencies do you suggest we contact. I have already filed a complaint, as most of us have with the Fl BBB, my father has written and called the AG's office- nothing! Before paying off lawyers who specialize in contractual disputes and CRIME-FRAUD, is there another step here that could help, you sound very knowledgable.
Thanks,
barandazo@optonline.net

I'd call the states AG office to see what departments they suggest. Perhaps whatever office handles real estate law would be one source.

Still, I think you'll find that, even though you know you've been scammed, you're going up against a contract you signed and will stand the test in court. Is the firm taking this case on contingency or charging you fee's up front? What sort of track record to they have? How did you locate them, through referal or TV add? On what grounds do they believe they can get a judgement or, do they think that if they cost the company enough money by dragging them into court they'll pay you off because it's less expensive?

There are a LOT of people out there looking to seperate you from your money. Be VERY careful. It's not like this is new ground your breaking. While I haven't done it, maybe a search of court records showing former or similar civil cases against timeshare developers would be in order. Find out if anyone has been successful or if they have failed on merit alone (been tossed out of court). ASk the law firm you're dealing with if they've ever tried this and, if so, what were the results. think and ASK HARD QUESTIONS. Lead with your brain and not your emotions. You might not get the answers you want but you may get the anwers you need.

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

These Internet timeshare forums and owner-protection sites are full of perfectly normal, intelligent, due-diligence-doing, people who did not realize their timeshare did not work the way they were told it would, and who discovered numerous undislosed restrictions, fees, etc., way after the first ten days.

I doubt that any of us disbelieved in total during our first TS tour.

There is a tendency among timeshare buyers to want to believe what they were told . . . I remember that well. After all, they would not be allowed to say those things if they weren't true. Would they?

I would venture to guess that the number of new owners who use their timeshare enough in the first ten days to realize these things is pretty close to zilch.

A certain other Internet timeshare forum says pretty much the same thing in their mission statement, as do the many timeshare consumer sites. "What we bought does not work like they said it would."

The availability of information on the Internet does not grant license to commit consumer fraud.

Keep in mind, AGs are closer to being the general public than they are to being timeshare industry reps, and we all know timesharing is generally disrespected by the general public.

What I'm saying is pretty much accepted by all, even those who like their timeshares.

JMHO

[dougp26364 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close dougp26364]

These Internet timeshare forums and owner-protection sites are full of perfectly normal, intelligent, due-diligence-doing, people who did not realize their timeshare did not work the way they were told it would, and who discovered numerous undislosed restrictions, fees, etc., way after the first ten days.

I doubt that any of us disbelieved in total during our first TS tour.

There is a tendency among timeshare buyers to want to believe what they were told . . . I remember that well. After all, they would not be allowed to say those things if they weren't true. Would they?

I would venture to guess that the number of new owners who use their timeshare enough in the first ten days to realize these things is pretty close to zilch.

A certain other Internet timeshare forum says pretty much the same thing in their mission statement, as do the many timeshare consumer sites. "What we bought does not work like they said it would."

The availability of information on the Internet does not grant license to commit consumer fraud.

Keep in mind, AGs are closer to being the general public than they are to being timeshare industry reps, and we all know timesharing is generally disrespected by the general public.

What I'm saying is pretty much accepted by all, even those who like their timeshares.

JMHO

You mean the car salesman who told me my 1970's model Chevy Monza lied to me when he said it handle like a Porche?

True enough that the euphoric (sp?) feeling after purchase might be enough to carry the average thinking citizen through that 10 day right to rescind. I know it did with us. It still does not relieve the purchaser from doing their due dillegence in light of a contract that gives them 10 days to cancel for any reason, including the fact that what the salesman said isn't written on anything they signed.

As for undisclosed fee's. the contracts I have did include all the fee's. I just had to read those contracts to find them. It's unfortunate that most of us will sign something without really reading it. I guess we tend to trust to much until we've been burnt enough to know better.

Keep in mind that one has to actually prove consumer fraud. That's a tough thing to do when they put it all in writting and you sign it. Especially when part of whats in writing states that you understand only what is in writting is what is promised. It's even tougher when state laws give you over a week to read through your paperwork and cancel for any reason, simply by putting it in writting.

[bnoble Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close bnoble]

including the fact that what the salesman said isn't written on anything they signed

Not only that, but there's *also* usually a statement that says: "If a salesman said something, but you don't find it written here, what the salesman said doesn't count."

My sense is that the vast majority of the "lies" told in a sales tour aren't out and out falsehoods, but rather they are "leading lies" or "lies of omission". A leading lie is something that is the truth, but not the whole truth. For example: "You can exchange this unit for all of these other things!" without adding "....if someone deposits it, and you have sufficient trade power, and the exchange company doesn't rent it to someone else first, and someone doesn't have an ongoing search, and..." A lie of omission is neglecting to mention that special assessments are possible. But, in general, all of those facts, and many more, are disclosed in the documents you are given, you just have to read and understand them.

You might every once in a while find a salesman who gives you an out-and-out lie: "Your fees can't go up" for example. But, even then, you have to prove it, *and* the language in the contract that verbal assurances don't count probably gives the developer enough wiggle room to escape any serious lawsuit. The place you can get them is where they violate real estate law---and that's a tricky business.

My uninformed, neither-a-lawyer-nor-a-real-estate-broker sense is that a lawsuit based only on "the salesman lied" is very very unlikely to deliver a judgement in favor of the plaintiff. It they are brought often enough, and rack up enough costs to defend, it *might* have the sort of chilling effect on the developer that JLB is suggesting, and it might draw the attention of an AG who needs a small extra boost to get re-elected. Even that seems doubtful---timeshare isn't a big enough player in the grand scheme of things vs. utility companies, car repair scams, etc. etc.

I'm guessing that, mostly, these sorts of lawsuits just help a bunch of lawyers make house payments.

[dougp26364 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close dougp26364]

........i'm guessing that, mostly, these sorts of lawsuits just help a bunch of lawyers make house payments.

BINGO!

Hey, a lawyer wouldn't lie would they?

[dougp26364 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close dougp26364]

BTW, filing complaints with HUD and the FTC could also be considered.

[mile Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close mile]

It looks like you are a happy OLR owner, so I guess you try defent your resort, but we all my respects to yuo I think we all have freedom of speak and freedom of press, so even if you try to tell us that isn't posible go against them, we are going to do, we all have the same unit complaint. and justice need to came, maybe you got the resort when they stared so they where honesty because they need clients, now they are like any other time share scam, liers and we made a financial suicede so we don't want that another person do the same mistake.

[bnoble Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close bnoble]

It looks like you are a happy OLR owner

Nope. I don't own at Orange Lake, I have no skin in the game. However, I've also never purchased from a developer, so perhaps I don't have the proper perspective on the question.

I'm not telling you it isn't possible. I'm not even telling you you shouldn't do it. I am telling you, though, that if it were my money and time, a class action suit is not how I would spend it. In my opinion, the suggestions of others that you focus on writing carefully-worded complaints to your AG, HUD, FTC, etc. would have more impact. (And, by carefully-worded, I mean with proper grammar and spelling, at the very least.)

Slightly off topic, but it's a pet peeve: freedom of speech/press only applies to what the government can and cannot forbid you from saying/printing/distributing. It doesn't apply in private settings.

[dougp26364 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close dougp26364]

It looks like you are a happy OLR owner, so I guess you try defent your resort, but we all my respects to yuo I think we all have freedom of speak and freedom of press, so even if you try to tell us that isn't posible go against them, we are going to do, we all have the same unit complaint. and justice need to came, maybe you got the resort when they stared so they where honesty because they need clients, now they are like any other time share scam, liers and we made a financial suicede so we don't want that another person do the same mistake.

I'm not sure where to start with this.

I guess I should inform you that I don't own an Orange Lake week. I have no dog in this hunt to go after Orange Lake. I'm just trying to get you to think before you jump. It might save you a few thousand more dollars over what you've already spent.

I'm also trying to get you to look at options. One of which would be how to get the most out of your timeshare ownership. It seems that the tunnel vision you suffer might make that impossible.

This site and timeshare users group (TUG2.net) were set up for the same reason you state. That is to keep others from making the same mistake most of us have made. We're also trying to get you to see that you may be about to make another mistake. This site and TUG are set up to inform timeshare owners, users and potential buyers of how timeshares really work, how to use them and how to avoid paying thousands of dollars for something you can buy for $1 on E-bay.

If you allow anger rather than reason to guide you, no one can help you. You're destined to throw good money after bad. Once you've exhausted this avenue I'm sure you'll probably find one of those up-front-fee companies that promise to sell your timeshare for more than you paid for it. After that you'll consider just not paying the fee's anymore or, maybe you'll find one of those post card companies who promise to get rid of your timeshare forever if you just give them $2,995 first.

If you haven't taken the time to read the contract you signed I'd suggest you do that first. Judging from the posts, I'm thinking no one has done that yet. It's not going to be a happy moment when you do but, it might open your eyes to the uphill and probably impossible battle your about the take on.

But hey, maybe your group will have the answer that no one else has had since timeshare started to become popular back in the 70's. Maybe you'll be the ones to bring this industry to it's knee's. Maybe you'll be the ones to force honesty at the round sales table. If I were a betting man, I'm afraid I'd be betting against you. You see, I have read those contracts and, my bet is the Orange Lake contract you have signed isn't much different than the ones I have in my possesion. It's going to be tough to get out what is a very well written contract.

Good luck. I hope you win. If you do, you'll have the gratitude of many thousands of buyers who have gone before you.

[slnyc11 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close slnyc11]

Why isn't everyone on here sticking together and trying to make a change? it seems like everyone on here knows that what these timeshare comapies are doing is wrong yet no one is standing up and saying its not ok and we wont let you get away with it. There are so may people on these forums but no one has united and took a stand. why is that?

[slnyc11 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close slnyc11]

It’s takes a lot to stand up for yourself, especially when English is not your first language. Please be a little more understanding when making comments towards people who are just trying to help themselves. It's just not nice

[dougp26364 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close dougp26364]

Why isn't everyone on here sticking together and trying to make a change? it seems like everyone on here knows that what these timeshare comapies are doing is wrong yet no one is standing up and saying its not ok and we wont let you get away with it. There are so may people on these forums but no one has united and took a stand. why is that?

Because we have read the contracts that a majority of us have signed. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. It might be a scam but, as of now it's a legal scam. And how do you know what some of us have and have not done? There is a right way and a wrong way to do things. There is a way to effect change and a many ways that only lead to aggrivation, wasted time and money.

We ARE trying to educate you and help guide you in a direction better suited to effect change. When goverment bodies get enough similar complaints, they act. The rarely act on only one complaint but toss thousands of complaints there way and things can happen. Google the state of MO's actions against timeshares. The state of FL has been taking action against resale scam artists that prey on individuals after they bought a timeshare.

These sites are to inform and, for those that find a site like this before the rescind period is up, the vote is almost always 100% to rescind with helpful instructions on how to rescind but more importantly, how NOT to rescind.

For a group with so much passion, you sure do have tunnel vision. You're not reading either your signed contracts or anything else on this site other than the threads you've started. I'm having serous doubts that you're doing any research at all and, when it comes to advice, it appears the only advice you'll hear is what you want to hear. If you think about it, that's what got you into this mess in the first place. You believed what you heard and wanted to believe not what is written and what you signed.

Before you spend one ounce of energy of one cent more, take some time to read you contracts and read more of this site than the threads you've started. Like I've said before, I hope your successful but, it's my opinion after being involved with timeshares as an owner since 1998 that you're up against a machine that has all the chips. So far you're not bringing anything to the table that hasn't been done before. There was just a HUGE (thousands to tens of thousands) class action suit against the largest exchange company RCI. You know how much change that effected? Nada, zip, zilch, zero! It's still business as usual for a company that's suppose to assist owners in making exchanges. We've seen this dog and pony show before and it leads to wasted time and money. We're trying to stop you from making a second fatal mistake but, if you must, go ahead and we'll cheer you on. Most here just aren't going to join you. We have read and we have researched and we know the likely outcome isn't what you want.

It’s takes a lot to stand up for yourself, especially when English is not your first language. Please be a little more understanding when making comments towards people who are just trying to help themselves. It's just not nice

There were two posts after miles. I don't think that either one was any more or less understanding than what anyone has posted in responce to your comments. I believe this has become personal in which case emotion can rule the day rather than reason. It's apparent that is still the case IMHO.