Originally posted by Glitter
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Greed... It's what brings them in!!!
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Economics of TS presentations
I am sitting here now at the Westin St. Johns with a presentation scheduled in about 1 hour. We are receiving about $130 per couple for 90 min of our time. If you add in at least an half hour for overrun and going to and from we figure a conservative 2 hour commitment. That about $32.50 per hour per person. Considering the cost of getting here and the cost of staying here, this is really poor return on a 2 hour commitment of time. My vacation time is worth something to.
I agree that folks should not whine if they are going to a presentation only for the money but greed is a strong word. It could also be applied to any developer sellin a timeshare week for a very large price tag.
I hate it when folks call a businesses business practices designed to make a profit GREED.
Ops, I'm whining.
I guess I need to go down and get breakfast on the Westins dime.
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I suggest to ISellTS that he is misdirecting his frustrations. If he is giving too many tours to people who are not truly prospects, that means his resort is not doing a good enough job of screening prospects.
There is nothing wrong with people going to a presentation only for the gifts. That's the way the marketing program is set up. In fact, when person tells an OPC or other contact that if they attend it will only be for the gifts, that is no deterrent.
How can you complain about someone coming only for the gifts after they've told the resort that they would only come for the gifts, and the resort says "Come anyway!"“Maybe you shouldn't dress like that.”
“This is a blouse and skirt. I don't know what you're talking about.”
“You shouldn't wear that body.”
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Originally posted by T. R. Oglodyte View PostThere is nothing wrong with people going to a presentation only for the gifts. That's the way the marketing program is set up. In fact, when person tells an OPC or other contact that if they attend it will only be for the gifts, that is no deterrent.
We sold some spare Disney tickets to a booth in Kissimmee because he was advertising 'Free' Universal tickets. He was totally upfront that to receive the tickets we would have to sit through a t/s presentation. We were just as upfront that we were only going for the gifts.
We told the rep at the presentation that we were only there for the tickets and already owned t/s. He thanked us for being honest and we actually had a very pleasant time chatting to him about t/s and holidays in general. He was totally unconcerned that he wasn't going to make a sale to us. He reckoned to sell to at least 1 'guest' per day - if he made 2 he was very happy.
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Perhaps they should set the income requirements higher for attending a timeshare presentation.
Our son and his wife make a lot of money together, both professionals with an income that most would envy. But when our son attended a timeshare presentation, all they required was an income of $45,000 or more. That is a joke to the kids because their income in total is more than double that. But when they saw the resort and the amenities, they had just come from Marriott Waiohai on Kauai and were not impressed (this was in Vegas), but the timeshare salesman said, "if you cannot afford to buy, just tell me." Our son said, "If you were showing something that was impressive, I would be more tempted." He said the conversation became ridiculous from that point. The sales guy was completely obnoxious and accused them of lying about their incomes.
Jeremy and Gyll chose not to argue with him and got out of there as soon as they could. They will never attend a timeshare presentation again, except maybe a Marriott because that is where their interest truly is. I told Jeremy they now have a timeshare in Vegas, so maybe the next time he goes he will consider it. The Marriott on Kauai was really great and impressed him. They will probably buy there. Marriott has a great product and the resale value that most resorts would envy.
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Merriam-Webster dictionary definition of greed:
Main Entry: greed
Pronunciation: 'grEd
Function: noun
Etymology: back-formation from greedy
: a selfish and excessive desire for more of something (as money) than is needed.
I think ISellTS has incorrectly defined the object of his/her frustrations. Not to mention the misplaced "attack" on the open dialogue here on TS4M, to which all are entitled.
Greed is a strong word that seems to incorrectly label travelers and families looking to travel at a lower cost. Bargain-hunter, frugal visitor, sponge (Bob). I don't know the ideal label. It's not my call.
Why can developers always seek to maximize profit but travelers are not permitted to take advantage of inexpensive, albeit not without a catch, vacation experiences? And does ISell laugh at those using coupons in a grocery checkout line? Attending a "one day" sale or early bird dinner??
As many stated in some form already, the developers are dangling the carrot (bait?) and allowing guests to gain exposure to their facilities at a " no obligation" discount. The developer has extended an invitation to prospective clients with the hope that a certain percentage will indeed bite.....mutual agreement by both parties if ever there was one. Come to think of it, it's a little like a blind date. It just might not work out afterall. Try again.
The rep is merely the facilitator in the process. That's what they agreed to do to earn income, yes?! Some discounters will "bite", but many will not. They simply cannot at that time.
But how does ISell know how many walk out then, but strive to own that very TS later in life. That's just the percentages. If you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen. (hopefully, they even use the net to find places like TS4M and buy resale) ISell would better spend time directing frustration to marketing/management to better assess those invited by the resort. But that is rarely ever the case, the net is cast out widely by those above ISell's hot head.
Obviously, the member dialogue provided here is, no doubt to anyone, a free exchange of info, but also a freedom of expression, under certain self-imposed guidelines. Members can, and do, complain or praise whatever TS property, resort experiences, salesrep, etc., etc. that they choose to without exceptions. It's a FORUM.
That's the beauty of TS4M! I am very new at the TS process, but was amazed and grateful that a place existed where TS owners and knowledegable individuals spent time and energy to develop and support a site that is full of helpful info and generous to others interested in TS ownership. I learn something new everytime I drop in here. As I have today.
Lastly, ISell, you picked the wrong site to drop a rant. The member/owners that patrol TS4M are passionate individuals, especially about their TS
JRM
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I think I will pull a chair up and enjoy this show as well!
What was posted is really quite accurate. Timeshare Sales people have spent years and a lot of money learning basic human psychology and it is that basic drive to get something gets the people to go to the presentation.
Then, the snake oil salesmen of our century have a target rich environment of people that have come in there that want something more for less. Then, the sales people go through the sales pitch demonstrating that for a whole lot of money that the marks are buying an investment that will last a lifetime. They get the mark all excited and they show them the book and a percentage of people will part with their money.
Well, if the person is unlucky they fall for the "you need to decide now" tactic and they spend a whole lot of money. Those poor people then look on the web and sites like this and realize they just spent $20,000 on a developer sold timeshare that they could have bought resale for about $5,000. A lucky few will discover the mistake in time to get out while others will not realize the mistake until it is too late!
If the person is lucky, they find a thread like this on the internet BEFORE they go into the shark pit and they can look at the presentation as an educational experience on how to sell something for about four times what it is worth. Heck, I have a 10-year old truck I would like to sell and I think I need to go to a few Timeshare Sales pitches to see if I can figure out how to sell it for 4x what it is worth
Welcome to the site!
Originally posted by ISellTS View PostOk here it is. I sell Timeshare, as the name says. And truth be told, you get what you give. 99% of the families I see are coming in out of pure GREED!!! They say "Hey lets go in and take em for all we can, we can sit through 90 minutes for a hundred bucks". Everyone that comes in thinks that. It's their greed for the "free gift" that brings them in and it's their greed that makes them buy! I am so sick of hearing people whine about how they got taken at a timeshare resort. You know what, I explain EVERYTHING that must be paid and how EVERYTHING works when they're with me. If they don't pay attention and still buy, it's their own fault. I mean this is not small amounts of money we're talking about spending. Pay attention to whats going on. Does timeshare work??? Yes, IF YOU VACATION!!! If you don't vacation, don't buy it. That's what I tell everyone I see. And what bothers me the most is that the people that complain about the timeshare presentations are the ones that keep going back time after time after time. And honestly most that come in are broke and couldn't buy if they wanted to. They lie to get in and get the free gifts and then laugh on thier way out for getting the free gift. But what they don't know is that their sales rep is laughing his butt of with the other reps making fun of their broke butts as the walk out the door. If you don't want it don't be greedy and sit in my chair... Period!!!Originally posted by ISellTSI don't whine about anything. I love my job and I love the people that I help. I just hate coming to these sites and hearing people gripe about what happened to them on a presentation. Timeshare is now regulated by the real estate commission and most if not all sales reps are fully insured. We've had some truly horrible liars in our business at times but if the customer asks questions those lies are always brought to light. I HATE LIARS that give this business a bad name. But people have to pay attention when they're there. BEFORE THEY BUY!!! When I'm with a family Im truthfull and if they vacation this works and thats what I tell them. Here's what it boils down to. If you don't vacation, you should not become an owner. YES!!! Your maintenance fee WILL go up, you want it to. Because the cost of Tvs - Refridgerators and everything else increases. Are there bad resorts??? Yes and there are some incredibly nice ones too, check them out before you exchange for one. Here's my advice to all my families: KNOW BEFORE YOU GO!!! If you have internet you can check out virtually every resort on the planet and know what it has to offer before you leave home. Be smart. And Please, Please, Please, Please, Please, Be honest with the sales rep. Most will truly try to help if they know what they're fighting, If someone tells me they just don't think they can afford it, I show them the least expensive thing we have that will help them vacation away from the hotel. Just remember this is not supposed to take food off your table, if it does, you shouldnt buy it.
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GREED !!! It's What Sells Them !!!!
]I found his/her discourse interesting and definitely provocative. He/she should be allowed "share" their experiences. If he/she is an honest t/s salesperson with a good product, fine. From my experience, that is the exception and not the rule. It's actually a good thing to be told that we're being laughed at as this will only seal their fate with those who may have bought from them. Thanks for the info. I used to feel guilty that I didn't buy.
Now, thanks to you, no more.
The more reputable developers, Four Seasons, Disney, Marriott, which do not employ high-pressure tactics,are tops in my book. Unforunately, so are their price$$$$$$.
I ended up buying Hyatt after attending an incredibly high-pressure assault in Puerto Rico. I bought it resale partly to spite that aggressive saleswoman, but mostly because I wanted Hyatt and got a superb resale price. Saving at least $10K just made it all that sweeter.
There are so many misrepresentations during these presentations (excluding the aforementioned) that one doesn't catch on until the contractual fine print is read. That's what many salesfolk are counting on.
So, I guess we're both laughing at each other's tactics. However, we resale purchasers are laughing all the way to the bank.
Don't offer me "gifts" (something given voluntarily without payment in return, as to show favor toward someone, honor an occasion, or make a gesture of assistance) if you don't mean it. Rename it "bait" so that folks have a clue that the true intent is to bait & switch and/or bait and reel 'em in. Simple. It's the price of doing business.
I know your time is valuable, so is mine.
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We own 12 timeshares, 10 every year and 2 everyone other year. The first one purchased from the developer, but the rest have been via the resale market - real estate folks, ebay, bidshares, HOAs, etc. We only gone to two sales presentations after that first one and probably won't go to any more, but some people like the game and the good ones get free gifts and the bad ones get another timeshare. Each to their own. The price we paid on the one from the developer, we purchased 6 of our others for that price. Our average price is below 35% of retail. Buying timeshares are like buying a car, you have to work hard to get a good price and then when you drive it away from the dealer, it has depreicated 25-30% in one day.
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The irony is not lost on me. The guy despises a group of people that are too smart to buy from the developer. He also stated that he knows many cannot afford it. I don't care how much money I have, I would never pay 2-10 times what his resort is worth. We are not stupid. We also don't pay sticker price for a car. Even Tahiti Village in Vegas has resales already on ebay. What a joke. Talk about a waste of money.
Edited to add: I believe that Marriott, Hyatt (as pointed out before), Starwood and many of the other companies are worth a lot more and would even possibly consider a developer purchase, but I would still have to get a deal to buy, just like a car.
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Originally posted by shopgirl View Postthe ....... salesman said, "if you cannot afford to buy, just tell me."
We were in Honolulu in September 2005 and visited the Wyland Galleries in the Aloha Marketplace. My mother had died a few weeks previous and I was looking for a piece of art that could be an investment, but more importantly would be a permanent reminder of my mother.
I saw one piece that I really liked and asked the price. The figure was well within the limits I had set myself, but I wanted to think about it before making a decision. As soon as I said I wanted to think about it the price fell (no surprise there, a bit like timeshare really ). When I repeated that I wasn't going to make a decision there and then, the saleswoman started on that if price was an issue they had all sorts of finance plans available. Despite me repeating the statement that it had nothing to do with the money she was like a dog with a bone and wouldn't give up. In the end I was getting pretty wound up and walked out of the shop - leaving my wife to explain the fact of life to the damn woman. A few minutes later the saleswoman came out trying to make a grovelling apology because she "had misread the situation". I told her to go to hell and that I would never buy from her under any circumstances. She lost a lot of commission simply because she wouldn't accept my original intention to 'think about it'.
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Originally posted by Keitht View PostGoing 'Off Topic' somewhat, but isn't it interesting that if you say "No" to a salesperson involved in high value items their automatic assumption seems to be that you can't afford it?
We were in Honolulu in September 2005 and visited the Wyland Galleries in the Aloha Marketplace. My mother had died a few weeks previous and I was looking for a piece of art that could be an investment, but more importantly would be a permanent reminder of my mother.
I saw one piece that I really liked and asked the price. The figure was well within the limits I had set myself, but I wanted to think about it before making a decision. As soon as I said I wanted to think about it the price fell (no surprise there, a bit like timeshare really ). When I repeated that I wasn't going to make a decision there and then, the saleswoman started on that if price was an issue they had all sorts of finance plans available. Despite me repeating the statement that it had nothing to do with the money she was like a dog with a bone and wouldn't give up. In the end I was getting pretty wound up and walked out of the shop - leaving my wife to explain the fact of life to the damn woman. A few minutes later the saleswoman came out trying to make a grovelling apology because she "had misread the situation". I told her to go to hell and that I would never buy from her under any circumstances. She lost a lot of commission simply because she wouldn't accept my original intention to 'think about it'.
I think that the first TS sale made for a TS salesguy is made to him! A salesguy has to be able to look at each customer as a big safe to be cracked.
They themselves buy into the "philosophy" that a prospect is like a mine, one must shaft the mine and get the gold. Their first weeks in "developer training" are to brainwash them into thinking that ALL prospects are to be parted with their money.
The idea that a person is saying "no" for some other reason than money, just won't occur to them if they have bought into the salesguy's line of BS. That is why they laugh when we walk out with the gift. They have to make it so that they can "feel superior" to us, and then they can face the next person across the table with the same line of BS.
In fact BS is the main ingredient in the bull-pen of sales....they just cannot accept that a person would possibly agree to the original terms: come in for info and a free gift and be allowed to walk out gracefully.
The toreador at least recognizes the bull as an equal adversary....a TS sales guy has to pretend we are whining losers! The very idea that we have a set of brains and a matching set of balls to theirs, and that we can even outwit them if challenged, really pisses them off...
All I can say is who is the here?Life is short, live it with this awareness.
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