Greed... It's what brings them in!!!

[taffy19 Gold Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close taffy19]

I have another question yet for you too, ISellTS. Do you own a timeshare at the resort where you are selling? Some developers give their sales staff a discount price which is a nice incentive to own there too. I ask this question to every sales person who gave us a presentation. Over half of them do not own at the resort where they are selling. I sometimes wonder if they do not believe in their own product so how can they expect to sell to the public or they are aware of the fact that the developers are charging way too much money for their product.

Most people, who are in the tourist industry, love to travel and would like to own a piece of it too and what is better than owning a timeshare condo rather than staying in a hotel room without a kitchen. By preparing meals in your condo, you can save a lot of money when you vacation with a family so a timeshare can have it's advantages. You never answered my first question of where you are selling but you may like to keep this private and I can understand that. You may not want your developer to know that you posted this.

I can tell you from experience that the sales people, who own at their resort, show a lot more enthusiasm and several of them showed us their photo albums of their family staying at the resort where he or she was selling. Some of them even showed pictures too where they had exchanged to in this country or outside the country. They really sell the dream of being able to go anywhere in the world once you buy a timeshare. Their enthusiasm for the product sure helps them making a sale. You sound more like a very frustrated sales person to me and are blaming us for accepting a freebie that is offered to us and then you want us to feel guilty if we do not buy from you.

Something else I have noticed over the years is that the most successful salesmen do not have to use the high pressure sales tactics because the resort sells itself if it is a nice project and in a prime location but it will get harder once most people are aware of the resale market and forums like this will spread the news because people will find it when they google for information.

[ISellTS Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close ISellTS]

Yes I own at my place of employment, I actually bought there about a year before I started working there. Where I own is a true warranty deed, I own a week. My week is good for a week at my home resort, your home resort or a resort in Hawaii during prime time. Thats the difference between points and true property ownership.

"They can, and do, make those units worth more points. Therefore, I would not necessarily ever be able to get into that new resort with my current amount of points."

My point exactly...

[taffy19 Gold Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close taffy19]

Point-based resorts seem to benefit the developers more than the timeshare owner but most people here do not agree with me. At least, that is one thing we have in common. I prefer deeded timeshare weeks and I like them even better when they are fixed weeks and fixed units like they used to sell them many years ago because then you know what you have and you can still float them too by depositing them in a pool so what is the difference? Yes, you pay a fee.

You must believe in your product, if you bought there yourself. Good luck with your sales but don't get mad if people do not buy. How many other products are sold like timeshares? Not many because it is very inefficient so marketing cost are way too high. JMHO.

[Keitht Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Keitht]

Example...

Average 1 week in a hotel a year. Average nightly charge $70.00. Looks like this.

$70.00
x 7 nights
--------------
= $490.00
x 30 weeks of vacation
------------
$14,700.00 For renting a hotel room

.

Using your figures, which I agree with others are actually a bit low, is where the value of timeshare starts to become marginal for people like myself. Maintenance fees continue to increase and I currently pay the equivalent of $650 per year. Your figures suggest that I could save $160 a year on maintenance fees alone, and that is ignoring the initial cost of the unit.
There are definitely other benefits to owning timeshare. The size of the accommodation; the quality of furnishings; full kitchens are just 3. I don't regret the purchase of my own timeshare, but the maths today make such a purchase in the future much less of a "no brainer".

[shopgirl Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close shopgirl]

You cannot take the price of a hotel room and multiply X 7 and come up with a figure and say that you will have nothing at the end because you rented. No timeshare maintenance fees are that low. The maintenance fees disappear as well, nothing to show for that. What about the total cost of the week as well? If you are selling a timeshare for $20K, you need to divide that out among many years to have that purchase make sense. The value goes down and the maintenance fees go up with age.

Timeshare at developer prices is always a waste of money. Some of the better resorts in top locations lose less value.

Do you sell Sunterra on Maui? I remember the recent salesperson for Sunterra forgetting to add in the cost of the ownership. The gigantic screen with the calculator was an interesting sales tool, but I took the whole spiel with a grain of salt when I could not get the guy to admit that he needed to add in the initial cost to show the actual cost of ownership. Sunterra values go down too.

[Jya-Ning Silver Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close Jya-Ning]

Example...

Average 1 week in a hotel a year. Average nightly charge $70.00. Looks like this.

$70.00
x 7 nights
--------------
= $490.00
x 30 weeks of vacation
------------
$14,700.00 For renting a hotel room

This figure is not right for two simple reason, 1st it discount the fact that the hotel rent cost is various with the season. In a off season or even a shoulder season, the room rate can be as low as 50. And for some area, I saw $29. 2nd The price need to compare with the MF. If you sell a fix week, the MF is $300 for all 1 BR in all season, but hotel rent is $40 in off season, $100 in a hot season, you are lossing if you own an off season.

You also did not add into the opportunity loss and potential sell loss of the value.

Thus, after 30 years vacation, you are getting a liability instead of anything value.

MF also goes up year in-year out.

Smple put, if you ask $10,000 for the week, and it is shoulder season, at this moment, the MF is $300 per week for all season, you are actually paying $800 if you never sell that unit for the vacation (assume 5% in opportunity cost). So you need hotel rate over $80 in the shoulder season to start with. Anything else, you are depend on a third party exchange company for you, which add more risk, and you need more return. In this case, if you use RCI, and you only have one week, you are looking at extra $250 to start with. So you need to spend over $1050 in hotel room to start with to even talk about you are owning something worth in return.

RCI does not control the deposit, so you are asking a third party to keep the deal worth using something that party can only guarantee it can not promise.

Where I own is a true warranty deed, I own a week. My week is good for a week at my home resort, your home resort or a resort in Hawaii during prime time. Thats the difference between points and true property ownership.

Not right, you are actually depend on exchange company for the claim of your home resort or a resort in Hawaii. You may not get any deposit from my home resort because they only deposit to the newest exchange company's system. And if you don't have trading power, you can do nothing on that.

The only thing you can claim you will always get your home resort. And if you can exchange through a week exchange company, you can get a week in return. Which is the same for point system. I will always get a week in my home resort (some system the point value for one week is the same with no difference between new resort or old resort). And if I reserve a week in the system (or my home resort) and deposit to other week exchange company, I get a week in return just like regular week resort. If I use generic deposit, as long as RCI keep that ratio, I always get a week. And if RCI decides my home resort is not strong enough and raise the exchange point ratio, I can simple add few points to have enough for one week change that hold my trading power. But for other week exchange company that accept my week deposit, I always get a week without adding any point.

To make sale based on third party which does not immediately benefit from that sale? That is where a lot of problem comes from. It simply can not hold.

Jya-Ning

[nursetanya1973 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close nursetanya1973]

Yes I own at my place of employment, I actually bought there about a year before I started working there. Where I own is a true warranty deed, I own a week. My week is good for a week at my home resort, your home resort or a resort in Hawaii during prime time. Thats the difference between points and true property ownership.

"They can, and do, make those units worth more points. Therefore, I would not necessarily ever be able to get into that new resort with my current amount of points."

My point exactly...

No, it wasn't your point. I always own what and where I bought, same as you. Only new resorts get new point scales, that doesn't affect what I own. Just like your trade power might go down as your resort gets older. And my HGVC points have never failed to get me into any resort I want, when I want- assuming they have been deposited to the exchange company by someone else willing to give up their prime time week (I think you forgot to add that part). As I see it, I actually have more of a chance to get into HI with my points, because they have resorts there.

Your point was that I would lose my week, that it is not deeded. I see you did not address that. I can certainly quote the deed which states that I own a week in building 6 and 7 and that the unit has been assigned Fairshare plus points symbolic of said property interest, but I have a feeling you would ignore that as well.

Of course, this is just addressing one little piece (the points) of your argument, I'll let others address the rest.

[bigfrank Administrator Find all posts View Profile Close bigfrank]

This figure is not right for two simple reason, 1st it discount the fact that the hotel rent cost is various with the season. In a off season or even a shoulder season, the room rate can be as low as 50. And for some area, I saw $29. 2nd The price need to compare with the MF. If you sell a fix week, the MF is $300 for all 1 BR in all season, but hotel rent is $40 in off season, $100 in a hot season, you are lossing if you own an off season.

Jya-Ning

The only $29 rooms I have ever seen are those that Truckers stop at on I95 or the low class hotels in Orlando for around $49. I would not put my family in a hotel like that. In actuality what we get in a time share is a bargain. Think about it. We have room and plenty of it. 2 bedrooms, 2 baths, Living room, dining room, full kitchen and a patio to boot. I can no longer revert back to a hotel room never mind the low budget ones.

[Steamboat Bill Banned Find all posts View Profile Close Steamboat Bill]

DVC has the product and the pitch. They give you nothing but a free ice cream and a day of fast passes. It was so enjoyable.

I 100% agree with that statement. They have a perfect soft sell.

[riverdees05 Platinum Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close riverdees05]

Reminds me of the time we were in Mississippi coming back from New Orleans and decided we need to find a motel at 2:00 AM. The price was right, but our two oldest daughters would sleep in the room, it was bad, they spent the night in the van. It is hard to find a good motel room even in a small town for less that $80-100 a night.

[Beaglemom3 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Beaglemom3]

The only $29 rooms I have ever seen are those that Truckers stop at on I95 or the low class hotels in Orlando for around $49. I would not put my family in a hotel like that. In actuality what we get in a time share is a bargain. Think about it. We have room and plenty of it. 2 bedrooms, 2 baths, Living room, dining room, full kitchen and a patio to boot. I can no longer revert back to a hotel room never mind the low budget ones.

Absolutely a bargain ! Especially when you're in a pricey city or area, a kitchen is a money saver. I save a lot while in London, Ireland, etc.
Also, it's nice just to have a living room to sit in or go to separate from the bedroom for night owls.
I stayed a couple nights at a very nice hotel in Orlando (Portofino), but I couldn't wait until we moved into the DVC-Old Key West. Big difference.
B.

[Jya-Ning Silver Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close Jya-Ning]

The only $29 rooms I have ever seen are those that Truckers stop at on I95 or the low class hotels in Orlando for around $49. I would not put my family in a hotel like that. In actuality what we get in a time share is a bargain. Think about it. We have room and plenty of it. 2 bedrooms, 2 baths, Living room, dining room, full kitchen and a patio to boot. I can no longer revert back to a hotel room never mind the low budget ones.

Agree, the difference starts when you need 2 BR or better, and/or when you use Kitchen. It adds when you start to look for Quality Resort. But if you travel through low demand season, you need to extend your usage through exchange.

You have a few chances to find $29 through RCI LC though, sometimes EV, or in coutry side on the season where there are a lot of empty room. I think eBay is around $40 sometimes, Vagas at week day actually sometimes can be get at $45. But one time I saw a Williamsburg 1 BD 7 days July 4th week bid at $300. So if you are unlucky(or lucky) ...

Jya-Ning

[opkansas Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close opkansas]

I wonder if ISellTS has ever considered therapy!

[ISellTS Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close ISellTS]

No, it wasn't your point. I always own what and where I bought, same as you. Only new resorts get new point scales, that doesn't affect what I own. Just like your trade power might go down as your resort gets older. And my HGVC points have never failed to get me into any resort I want, when I want- assuming they have been deposited to the exchange company by someone else willing to give up their prime time week (I think you forgot to add that part). As I see it, I actually have more of a chance to get into HI with my points, because they have resorts there.

Your point was that I would lose my week, that it is not deeded. I see you did not address that. I can certainly quote the deed which states that I own a week in building 6 and 7 and that the unit has been assigned Fairshare plus points symbolic of said property interest, but I have a feeling you would ignore that as well.

Of course, this is just addressing one little piece (the points) of your argument, I'll let others address the rest.

Honestly you have no idea what you're talking about. Yes you may be able to maintain the number of days at your own resort, if you're very very lucky. But I think you'll find later down the road that your phone starts ringing more and more with your resort advising you to buy more to maintain the level you're accustomed to. That's what points were made to do. They were made so the resort would not have to sell their actuall property and to keep a continuos flow of new new money coming in, even from people that had already bought. You can say what you want but trust me, you will find out what I'm saying is true. I'm not saying this to be mean but just to be honest so you know what you have. I recieve a magazine that is distributed amongst employees at some resorts that gives the definition for all timeshare terms and it states as follows:

"Points are a symbolic unit of measure having NO intrinsic value".

That's why you can buy point packages for pennies on the dollar all day long on sites like ebay and many others.

If it cost you 12000 points for a weeks stay at your home resort today, trust me, 15 years from now it WILL cost you more. You can believe what you want, but it will. That's why points were created.

I own a deeded week at a 5 star resort in one of the most demanded areas in the US. We are a top 20 resort world wide. Your points WILL NEVER TRADE higher than what I own. I'm sorry, it's just the truth. I know you don't believe that and I'm not trying to cause an argument but thats a fact.

[tonyg Goomba & Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close tonyg]

Can't wait for Bruce to respond. Ownership is way overrated, why buy when you can get a rental for a week for under $ 300 from RCI and some now even from II. Most timeshares are a liability.