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Originally posted by BoardGirl
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How about "How do you know when a TS salesman is lying? - When his mouth opens"EMAIL me if you wish, do NOT PM -
Sooo Sorry You Went Through That!
So sorry you went through that! I'm sure Wyndham would like to know what happened to you!
Like others here, I love Worldmark by Wyndham and timeshare vacationing, but hate the way they (and everybody else) sell it! So I put a website together to try to give people enough info about timeshares and Wyndham specifically to just walk in and do a transaction instead of go through all of that. It puts you in control, just like we now have the ability to research cars and walk in knowing as much or more about a car than the car salesperson. You know the old adage "knowledge is power." See http://www.first-class-dirt-cheap-va...timeshare.html for specific details on Timeshare "Buy Right Rules" and specific details on Wyndham.
The problem with trying to buy Wyndham resale is that you will not get the Traveshare program unless you buy from the developer, which gives you RCI and other things. See http://www.first-class-dirt-cheap-va...imeshares.html for my recommendations.
Hope this helps.
Reesie
www.first-class-dirt-cheap-vacation.comComment
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We are going to let this post stand since it has to do with timesharing it is however advertising. The moderators felt this post is an ad and IMO it is. Just letting you know since this is your first post if this continues we will editOriginally posted by Reesie View Post
all your links in your posts if we see a string of posts recomending your site like you did above.
Timeshareforums Shirts and Mugs on sale now! http://www.cafepress.com/ts4msComment
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Your first post to this group and it's an all out marketing piece essentially for buying full price retail from Wyndham? Tsk Tsk Tsk you should be ashamed!!!Originally posted by Reesie View Post
(Also your website is full of grammar and spelling errors!)Comment
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Just Trying to Help
Didn't realize I was on the Timeshare Resale lot.
Not everyone is comfortable buying "used cars." You're never really sure what you're getting. I'll pay more for accountability and developer goodies. I like new cars, thank you.
I may consider buying resale from other owners of the same timeshare that I know -- but off of ebay? I'm not a gambler.
I'm a timeshare owner who is trying to challenge the way timeshares are sold. Everyone complains about it. I'm trying to do something about it. If I could, I'd put every credible timeshare companies' details on my website just to give potential buyers the ammunition they need to diffuse the high-pressure sales approach, and just go in & buy a timeshare without the drama. I'd still recommend Wyndham though, because I believe they are the best. If you want to call that "selling" -- whatever. I have their details so I put them up. Don't know if Wyndham will be too happy with me -- stealing their "thunder." They may even try to shut me down.
Perhaps I'm optimistic enough to believe my site could start a ball rolling in the right direction.
There are some great suggestions here in these posts. Already having the product information before you go in, I believe, is the ultimate.
Grammar and spelling errors in my site? I'd check on the accreditation of your journalism degree. Mine is fully accredited, with 25+ years as a business development writer/editor.
If I can't "change the world" but can help one person take control, I'll be happy.
Peace.Comment
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Your analogy breaks down here. Unlike buying a used car, when you buy a resale timeshare you can know exactly what you are getting. When you do your background checking, you can know exactly what your use rights are, whether the unit is deeded or right to use (and the remaining time on the RTU), how many points the unit is worth if it's part of a points system, etc. That information is available if someone wants to investigate. The TUG advice area has an article on suggested buyer due diligence questions.Originally posted by Reesie
Further, buying a "new" timeshare is no guarantee that a buyer will get what they think they are purchasing. The timeshare sales business is rife with lies, misrepresentations, distortions, misstatements, and general inaccuracies given to buyers in the sales process.
If a person buys "new" with the perception that the buyer is thereby eliminating uncertainty in what they are purchasing, that buyer is paying a huge premium for a chimera. Due diligence is equally required for both "new" and "resale" purchases. The only difference is that the nature of the questions that need to be asked are different.
A person who buys "new" without doing due diligence is every bit as likely to be fleeced as is the person who buys "used" without doing due diligence. The big difference is that because resale prices are so much less, the resale buyer won't get fleeced as badly as the new buyer.“Maybe you shouldn't dress like that.”
“This is a blouse and skirt. I don't know what you're talking about.”
“You shouldn't wear that body.”Comment
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Maybe someone needs to do a Wyndham site similar to the following unofficial Sunterra sites:
Sunterrafied
Home (Sunterra Scambusters)Comment
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You could call it Wyndhbag.
Comment
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The strangest thing happend. My brother bought a "new" timeshare, and was shocked---SHOCKED I tell you---to discover that someone had already slept in it. It didn't even have that new carpet smell!Not everyone is comfortable buying "used cars." You're never really sure what you're getting. I'll pay more for accountability and developer goodies.Comment
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The depreciation is like a used car not the ownership
Unlike a used car a resale timeshare is exactly the same as a "new" one. You aren't risking higher ongoing expenses or unknown repairs as a resale owner that you also aren't faced with as a "new" buyer. But you will have far more money in your pocket to pay whatever costs you have as an owner if you buy resale. Remember that none (thats ZERO) of the purchase price "new" goes to the resort for future expenses. You are not insulating yourself from future expenses. You would be supporting the developer bank account and paying the sales persons commission. Sorry, but I don't have extra money to throw away to fund those causes.Originally posted by ReesieComment
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Gambling
None of you are accounting for the factor that you have in a resale situation that you don't in a new purchase -- the reseller. How are you going to do due diligence on them?
I'm not a gambler.
As for due diligence buying new, with Wyndham at least, that's exactly what I'm helping people achieve by giving them the details upfront. That's as due diligence as it can get.
You also have not addressed the goodies in the "premium package" I can get with the developer I cannot get from a reseller, no matter how they lie and say I can! Travelshare, for instance. If I buy Wyndham resale, I get 60 resorts, mostly along the Pacific Coast. If I buy Wyndham from the developer, I get 4000 plus resorts around the world, plus travel specials that help me save significant dollars on my other travel expenses, plus top-notch service and accountability.
I also own Polo Towers. Yes. I bought the "premium package." Because I bought with the developer, I have a lifetime membership in Ice Gallery, which opens up unbeatable deals on all cruise lines, rather than the dribble offered to me through RCI or II. The service is top-notch and I have accountability there as well.
As I said, I would only consider buying resale to add-on with a timeshare company I already own, and I would only buy from an owner I could meet.
I still maintain, not everyone wants to buy resale, some people, like myself, prefer to buy new -- and are willing to pay a premium for added value, additional service and a straight line of accountability.
It's why I hire an accountant I trust instead of trying to do my taxes myself, it's why I hire a broker I trust instead of trying to do stock trades myself, it's why I hire an attorney I trust instead of trying to handle legal matters myself. I pay a premium for the extra money they save or make me in the long-run, the additional service and a straight line of accountability.
Yes we all agree the "car-sales" approach is ridiculous, which in whatever way one little person can start a ball rolling, I'm trying to change. But the product is great. You all agree or you wouldn't be here.
It would be nice if you would welcome instead of chide those of us who prefer to buy new for the reasons I've stated -- or be direct and change the forum name to Timeshare Resale Forum.
It'd be great to get on with sharing how people are enjoying their timeshare vacationing -- guess I'll move to a different thread for that.
ReesieComment
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The only difference. Cost.
Thats why you use a closing company and look for any negative feedback. It's not the seller thats the critical item but the resort. You can check the status of the seller using an estoppal inquiry. This is not a good reason to buy retail. What due diligence are most going to do on the developer? They are more likely to be shady than an individual selling a unit.Originally posted by Reesie
Oh, the 90 minute presentation IS the due diligence? PLEASE! Believing that is gambling.Originally posted by Reesie
What is this nonsense? If you buy into the Wyndham system you get all the resorts and access to RCI or II. No you don't get the "premium package" but there is no way that bunch of discount offers, easily found online by anyone that wants to look, is worth tens of thousands - not just a few hundred but TENS OF THOUSANDS of dollars. And the minute the rescind period ends you can kiss all but 2 or 3 cents out of the 12 to 15 cents per point you paid retail goodbye. No premium is worth that loss. No due diligence needed - you WILL suffer that loss of value on the day after the rescind rights end.Originally posted by Reesie
I also have a membership (complementary) to ICE. Again the "deals" are no better than those easily found on the web. It is a well known fact that cruise vacations through RCI/II are not good deals and neither is ICE in all but a few isolated cases.Originally posted by Reesie
Well you did pay a big premium. If you can afford it and it makes you more comfortable then fine. But it sure isn't a recommended method of purchase to get the best value out of timeshare. Anyone can buy retail. The advantage goes to those who find resale.Originally posted by Reesie
If buying retail was gaining you anything we'd be happy to support it. Instead we are the crying towel for those who discovered resale too late and actually paid retail for the exact same timeshare they could have bought for pennies on the dollar.Originally posted by Reesie
We not only enjoy it but enjoy it more when it costs 30% or less of the retail price. I don't know if you are trying to convince yourself the premium for retail was a good expense or if you are a timeshare sales person (some of the above sounds like you are) trying to make retail sound palatable. No sale. I'm happy to commensurate with you as you paid too much and help you avoid that mistake in the future. But there is no way that telling people to buy retail is sound advice except in a very few specific cases. This is not one.Originally posted by ReesieComment
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In Wyndham's case it is!
Oh, let me get this right. You're here to console the poor owners who are paying for new resorts, that you fleeced for 50% or more of what they paid. I see.
No. I'm not a timeshare salesperson. Just a timeshare owner who believes, as you all do, it should be sold differently, and who created a website in hopes of doing whatever little I can to nudge it in that direction.
Unlike you, I'm also a timeshare owner who advices owners on my site to never sell, but rather figure out how to USE it and leave it to their kids instead. That way they're not getting fleeced by resale buyers paying 50% or less than what they paid. This is the other side of the coin that gives timeshare such a bad name.
If I could paint this picture, timeshare would no longer be sold through high pressure sales presentations and people who buy would never sell, only USE their timeshare and pass it on!
And God forbid if you should put money in the developer's pocket so they can build more resorts. You point out that you end up with the same product buying resale as if you bought retail (which isn't true -- guess I got better developer goodies or have learned how to work them to save more than I could any other first class way), but you trash the developer and think you're superior because you got it for less money! It's the same developer, you just fleeced the poor owner.
You seem focused on not putting money in the developer's pockets but don't mind that you're taking 50% or more out of the poor owner's pockets, scavenging off of "distressed" sales. You also think you're smarter than the poor person selling, and getting fleeced for half-price or worse. Yeah, that's "smart." That kind of "smart" is too slimy for me. It's called "bottom feeder," "scavenger," "parasite."
In Wyndham's case, those of us buying retail are paying cash for all of the new resorts being built by the developer, which are then deeded debt-free to Worldmark the club, and all of you buying resale rip-off some poor owner and get a free-ride. As a Wyndham owner, we then share in 100% equity in all of those new resorts. Yup! I'm investing in the company's growth and proud of it!
If everyone was a resale bottom-feeder, there would be no new resorts to enjoy. Soon there would also be no poor owners to fleece.
I can tell that sounds much too altruistic and not enough me-me-me for you.
Oh well! We're just different kind of people!
Reesie
(Link removed as ad)Comment
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Originally posted by Reesie
Reesie,
The 50% discount you accuse resale buyers "fleecing" from developer buyers is in fact the developer's cost to market and sell their weeks/units/points. The true value of a developer timeshare is 1/2 of what anyone pays.
This fact is not part of the excellent feel good presentation that developers show to prospective buyers. Also, there is no information about the deep discount that the retail buyer incurs as soon as the recission period is over. Would anyone buy if they knew these facts?
I applaud anyone who becomes educated before attending a developer presentation. Knowledge is power. For many, perhaps most, of the folks who contribute to this BBS and others, first purchased a developer unit/week/points and then learned about the resale world. We all have learned hard financial lessons in life. Why should we not learn from these lessons and find a cheaper way to timeshare?
A true fair market sale of anything, including timeshares, is what a willing buyer is willing to pay to a willing seller. It's that simple. When a retail buyer wants to sell their timeshare, he/she will only get fair market value. Nothing more, nothing less. What price the buyer originally paid for the timeshare is of no consequence.Comment
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Line up the sheep - here comes Wyndham
Reesie - I certainly can't argue with your "save the world" sentiments.Originally posted by Reesie
But you are equating unrelated occurrences. First is the development of a timeshare resort. Someone is risking money and fronting costs to accomplish that. They usually also hold the rights to sell what they create. This would be a retail or developer sale.
As you correctly point out if no one bought the units created then there would never be resales. But thats why developers push so hard for sales and how the current, consumer unfriendly system has evolved. Your efforts to educate those who bought in under this model - the vast majority of all timeshare owners, including me, bought at least one that way - on how to best get their value out is laudable. Nothing wrong with it and hopefully most of those owners will go on to enjoy what they bought at full price. Actually what they paid is irrelevant once the rescission period is over. They own it and had best use and enjoy it or be ready to take a big hit should they decide to sell.
And there is the second, unrelated item. Resale. It is not "fleecing" the buyer of retail timeshare to purchase from them at a market rate. If they had bought into a system that shows some semblance of support for their owners such as Disney Vacation Club or Marriott, both treat resale with respect and do something - even if it isn't totally owner friendly - to support resale prices, then the market would be closer to retail pricing and the "fleece" would be much lower or, in some cases, they may actually make a few bucks on a resale almost like real estate. But in Wyndham (there are many others - far more than there are Marriott/DVC's) we have a group that actually goes out of their way to devalue what their buyers have paid retail prices for. They purposely remove support for resale and try to develop "perks" to make the grossly overpriced retail look attractive. Sounds like you bought into that line . You are picking on the wrong group when you say resale buyers, who are only taking advantage of the system as your beloved developers have decided to run it, are fleecing the original buyers. It is Wyndham who is fully aware, as many of the poor vacationers who get roped into a Wyndham purchase at retail are not, that the exact same property they are selling for $20,000 or more can be bought at anytime for $5000 or less resale. Yet they choose to create a negative environment for resales even as they raise the retail prices.
If you really want to help continue your crusade to help buyers and add one to make Wyndham change their resale policies. If they would start a resale system similar to Marriotts then everyone would be a winner and the rock bottom resales would dry up. But for now they have created the ultimate buyers market for their points in resale even as they are close to being a consumer ripoff at retail. They should also have to disclose what a resale point sells for during any presentation (or "due diligence" as you see it). How many sales do you think they would make then?
The fleecing is going on but it sure isn't from the resale buyers of the world. As the timeshare world stands today and especially as it applies to Wyndham, telling anyone to buy retail is not a consumer friendly stand to take. Work to change the ugly system of sales and get them to support rather than attempt to kill resales of the very product they push.Comment
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