Never buy a timeshare from Wyndham

[tonyg Goomba & Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close tonyg]

This is totally naive and wrong. The only accountability one gets from a developer is what is in writing. Everything else is lies, exaggerations and parts left unsaid. Due diligence for resales is usually better as owners and forums such as this can and will impart more information that the developer ever will.
As to the 50% number, I think the value is more in the 40%-45% range on average. 50 % cost and 50% sales expense ignores developer profit.

2) Every resale ad I've read so far about the timeshares I own contains lies that are easily proven as lies! I've looked on ebay, independent broker sites and private sellers. Every one of them is misrepresenting what you will get. I'd rather go through due diligence directly with the developer, instead of adding an additional layer of deceit to wade through. I want a contract directly with the developer -- I want direct accountability.

[taffy19 Gold Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close taffy19]

Is there a similar form/government unit for Mexico?

Try this link as it may be helpful to you. Sorry, I missed this post before and I hope that you are still reading this thread.

[taffy19 Gold Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close taffy19]

Reesie, "Ice Gallery" was not a good deal when we were members!

I also own Polo Towers. Yes. I bought the "premium package." Because I bought with the developer, I have a lifetime membership in Ice Gallery, which opens up unbeatable deals on all cruise lines, rather than the dribble offered to me through RCI or II. The service is top-notch and I have accountability there as well. Reesie

This is really a most interesting thread so I was showing it to my husband after dinner tonight.

We once received a lifetime membership in Ice Gallery too. I can't even remember who offered it to us but I know that we didn't keep it because the cruises are more expensive than what you can find on the Internet. Have you tried this link? I found it in one of the two timeshare forums I am familiar with. There are bargains galore in cruising and even for timeshare rentals too right now.

Also, it is a buyer's market at the moment as people can't give their timeshares away. This is really very sad if you bought from a developer and your timeshare value is zilch the moment you left the sales office and it is even worse yet when you financed the timeshare purchase too. It is absolutely criminal because none of this is mentioned to you at the timeshare presentation at any resort we have been to!

The timeshare forums do so much to educate people in general, who want to buy a timeshare today, and this information will spread only faster yet now it has begun. You can't stop it anymore which is good! People may continue buying from developers if they offer perks that do not transfer with the title to the new owner. These perks can be very important to you if you like to make reservations early and select a good view or exchange to one of their other newer resorts too that re-sales have no access to.

The Grand Mayan, in Mexico, has started this already and they are cooperating with the Wyndham Group too. When you buy a re-sale now from them, you can only go that resort every year or the resorts that were in their portfolio then but not to their newer resorts they are building from here on. We went to a presentation recently and had to sign a piece of paper that we were aware of this. Can you blame them for going this way? All I see is that other big developers are going this way too so to stop the re-sale market competing with them or taking over.

However, none of these developers can stop you from making exchanges with RCI or II but your chances are getting slimmer to get what you really want in the season you like to go. If I were in your place, I would try to do direct exchanges with people you know and trust or rent the condo out. With the cash in your hand, you can go anywhere you like to go at any time of the year. Yes, you have to pay income taxes and that is another draw back, if you do not exchange, but if you rent for a lot more than your maintenance fees cost you, you are still ahead, eventually.

With a floating system, the developer will always have power over you because they can change their model or fees at any time. They love to tell you that it is more flexible. To me, this was a way for them to sell all weeks without any difficulty. If you own a fixed week, nothing is stopping you to put it in a space bank too and get a different condo in return. Very few fixed week and units are sold today except for the holidays or when the schools are out so my motto is still, buy where you want to go most of the time and buy in the season you most likely want to be there and buy re-sale, if it is available, so you won't lose any money in case you have to sell immediately. That can happen to anyone. If you do this, you will love your timeshare experience.

[T. R. Oglodyte Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close T. R. Oglodyte]

There is another issue with those developer perks that are only available to people who buy from the developer. The developer does those things specifically to cheapen the value of the unit of the unit that you own once you buy it.

Think about that for a minute. You are giving your money to someone for a product that they are doing everything to can to make worthless as soon as they give it to you.

****

Reesie made the analogy with car buying previously. Let's continue that analogy.

It's as if you bought a car from a new car dealership, but part of the sales agreement required you to bring the car to them before you sold it to someone else. Then, before they gave the car back to you they shattered the windshield, slashed the seats, removed the sound system, and dented the fenders.

Then they gave the car back to you and said, "Ok, now you can transfer it to someone else."


*****

What's the logic of putting "faith" and "trust" with an entity that is unabashedly doing whatever it can to trash the value of what it just sold you just because it's more convenient for it to do so?? What does "accountability" mean when the required paper includes a waiver you must sign that says that any promises or representations made during the sales presentation are not binding or valid?

[TimeshareVon Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close TimeshareVon]

Oh, and too bad there isn't spell check on this forum. Thank goodness there is on my site, and thank goodness, I can at least use words with relevant meaning if I don't catch every misspelling myself. To say someone's site is full of grammar and spelling errors -- what a juvenile way to try to dismiss someone when they don't agree with you. I guess it was actually TimeshareVon -- what are you 5?

I didn't "dismiss" you because we don't agree. I dismissed you because you seem to be shilling for FF/Wyndham which was how I opened my two line post in response to yours.

The comment about grammar/typos was merely to point out that your website wasn't totally professional in that in the few pages that I read, I found some errors. I'm not going to go back and spend (errrr waste) my time rereading so that I can quote or cut/paste them, but I will tell you that you had the word "then" in the place of "than" more than once. (NOTE: I said "more THAN once" . . . and not "more THEN once.")

As for stooping low in discussion and/or debate, resorting to personal attacks like calling me juvenile and asking if I'm five years old, only serves to make you look so.

Enjoy your education from Steve and others . . . if you open your mind you may learn some things that in the long run will benefit you greatly.

Have a nice day!

[Reesie Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Reesie]

Final Response Then Moving On...

Hi all,

To Timeshare-Von:

"Then" refers to time and "Than" refers to a comparison. I believe I've used them correctly throughout.

Yes, if that is your example, you threw the "baby out with the bathwater," regardless of how few words your post contained. Yes, it was an attempt to recommend an entire dismissal of my site and it's advice. Yes, it is juvenile. If you'd like to debate opinions, be an adult about it.

To all of you:

You're missing my point, and the whole point of my site. You're focused on "resale," (which you really ought to put in the title of your forum, because you do not represent all timeshare owners, only those focused on resale) and I'm focused on USE. Buy a timeshare, use it for a lifetime, then pass it on for your children to enjoy. There is NO RESALE in USE.

From the USE perspective, developers are encouraged to add value to my purchase to make it more valuable for me to USE. They are also encouraged to make a direct written contract with me and provide me direct service that will keep me happy while I USE their product so I will refer it to others.

Would I like to pay less (50% less would be wonderful) and not be subjected to their ridiculous high pressure sales? Of course. We agree there. But we part ways when it comes to a solution. Your solution is resale, mine is suggesting web sales to the developer, so I can still have a direct contract that they are bound by and enjoy the added value goodies.

But I, nor the developer, gives a hoot about resale because our focus is USE!

As we part ways here, I hope we can part with respect, acknowledging that we just have a difference of opinion.

Reesie
First Class Dirt Cheap Vacation dot com

[hvsteve1 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close hvsteve1]

I belong to Timeshare Users Group and wear the official TUG T shirt. Nobody tries to pitch me when I sit down at the table with that on. Last year I ended up at a Wyndam tour that was unexpected (canceled cruise tour, nothing else to do, needed cab back to town) and had a regular T shirt. I told the closer, "gee, if I knew I was going to do this on vacation, I would have worn my TUG T shirt. The close turned into a friendly shmooz after which I got my free gifts and a ride back to town.

[Joestein Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Joestein]

Hi all,


You're missing my point, and the whole point of my site. You're focused on "resale," (which you really ought to put in the title of your forum, because you do not represent all timeshare owners, only those focused on resale) and I'm focused on USE. Buy a timeshare, use it for a lifetime, then pass it on for your children to enjoy. There is NO RESALE in USE.

From the USE perspective, developers are encouraged to add value to my purchase to make it more valuable for me to USE. They are also encouraged to make a direct written contract with me and provide me direct service that will keep me happy while I USE their product so I will refer it to others.

But I, nor the developer, gives a hoot about resale because our focus is USE!


Reesie
First Class Dirt Cheap Vacation dot com

First, USE doesn't mean purchase from the developer, it just means use. You can purchase a timeshare resale and USE it.

Second, the developer obviously gives a hoot about resales, otherwise there would be no benefits/second classes that are only applicable to developer purchases.

While I can't find any evidence that you are developer funded/subsidiary, I find it hard to believe that you are not. You actually recommend trading your RCI deposit for a cruise through them.

Joe

[larry_WM Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close larry_WM]

Since you should be buying resale anyway, you need not deal with TS salemen in the furture.

A lot of folks can't say no to the gifts.

[brucecz Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close brucecz]

Maybe I can finally meet you if you would invite us if you think I could be of any "Support" doing a tour at the same time as you.

Maybe we could "Tag" team their teams.

I sort of like the attemps of the sales persons trying to spin their magic on us.
I find it very entertaining.


Bruce

These types of nasty experiences continue to put people off from timesharing. Why would anyone buy after such an experience ? Should I ever run into such an experience again, I would certainly get nasty and loud and talk about resale prices very loudly. This might curtail the presentation and give them something to think about should they lose a whole group of prospects as a result.
I sure wish I could get my Mrs. to go on one particular "revenge tour" I have in mind.

[brucecz Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close brucecz]

So sorry you went through that! I'm sure Wyndham would like to know what happened to you!
Reesie
First Class Dirt Cheap Vacation, Go Ahead and Change Your Life

A company and it's sales tactics are like a dead fish, it starts stinking from the head and the stink procedds downward to the other parts.

Face the fact that your product one day after the recission period pases loses about 90% of its value if you check what your product sells for on ebay as resales.

Getting most timeshare sales people to acknownlegde that fact is .


Bruce

[brucecz Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close brucecz]

I'm

None of you are accounting for the factor that you have in a resale situation that you don't in a new purchase -- the reseller. How are you going to do due diligence on them? Besides after doing my Due Diligence I learned if I bought directly from Whyham I would lose about 90% of what I paid iin week after buying it and if I put it on ebay for sale.

not a gambler.

As for due diligence buying new, with Wyndham at least, that's exactly what I'm helping people achieve by giving them the details upfront. That's as due diligence as it can get.

You also have not addressed the goodies in the "premium package" I can get with the developer I cannot get from a reseller, no matter how they lie and say I can! Travelshare, for instance. If I buy Wyndham resale, I get 60 resorts, mostly along the Pacific Coast. If I buy Wyndham from the developer, I get 4000 plus resorts around the world, plus travel specials that help me save significant dollars on my other travel expenses, plus top-notch service and accountability.

I also own Polo Towers. Yes. I bought the "premium package." Because I bought with the developer, I have a lifetime membership in Ice Gallery, which opens up unbeatable deals on all cruise lines, rather than the dribble offered to me through RCI or II. The service is top-notch and I have accountability there as well.

As I said, I would only consider buying resale to add-on with a timeshare company I already own, and I would only buy from an owner I could meet.

I still maintain, not everyone wants to buy resale, some people, like myself, prefer to buy new -- and are willing to pay a premium for added value, additional service and a straight line of accountability.

It's why I hire an accountant I trust instead of trying to do my taxes myself, it's why I hire a broker I trust instead of trying to do stock trades myself, it's why I hire an attorney I trust instead of trying to handle legal matters myself. I pay a premium for the extra money they save or make me in the long-run, the additional service and a straight line of accountability.

Yes we all agree the "car-sales" approach is ridiculous, which in whatever way one little person can start a ball rolling, I'm trying to change. But the product is great. You all agree or you wouldn't be here.

It would be nice if you would welcome instead of chide those of us who prefer to buy new for the reasons I've stated -- or be direct and change the forum name to Timeshare Resale Forum.

It'd be great to get on with sharing how people are enjoying their timeshare vacationing -- guess I'll move to a different thread for that.

Reesie

Ice sucks. Due diligence is not that hard to do.

I have done mine and and will not buy your product as I can trade into it ( counting both my weeks maintenance fee and exchange fee)in prime times at over 50% less than the owners maintenance fees at that resort.

Besides ours is daully affillated with both RCI and II so I have a better and bigger pool of resorts to exchange into compared to your Wynham.

Maybe if you looked at the information available about timeshares on the net instead of your traning manual you would not post such blatantly transparent manure.

But I guess we can notexspect you to bite the claw that feeds you.

Are you bu any chance related to Drkenrich? Your though process seems similar.


Bruce

[brucecz Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close brucecz]

I'm

You also have not addressed the goodies in the "premium package" I can get with the developer I cannot get from a reseller, no matter how they lie and say I can! Travelshare, for instance. If I buy Wyndham resale, I get 60 resorts, mostly along the Pacific Coast. If I buy Wyndham from the developer, I get 4000 plus resorts around the world, plus travel specials that help me save significant dollars on my other travel expenses, plus top-notch service and accountability.

Reesie

Your facts above are 100% WRONG AGAIN.
Bruce

[timeos2 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close timeos2]

I'm

Your facts above are 100% WRONG AGAIN.
Bruce

They sure are! What is the nonsense about doing "due diligence & discovering that the purchase will lose 90% of its value" but telling people to buy retail anyway? So you can be SURE you'll lose the 90% rather than merely risking it? And what if a resale sale does lose 90% of it's value? 90% of a few thousand dollars is much less than 90% or ten thousand or more.

These posts almost make the PCC's seem like saints but not quite.

[larry_WM Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close larry_WM]

Never buy a timeshare from any developer.