Has anyone fallen for this scam?

[danno Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close danno]

A resell company made me an offer on my timeshare. They claim that they resold it two days later to another person for more than twice what they paid me. The sales documents clearly show that I sold directly to that person, though, so now I am reclaiming the difference.

Has anyone fallen for this scam? Does anyone know the most influential licensing or regulatory agencies to contact to bring pressure against the reseller?

Thanks!

[Spence Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Spence]

A resell company made me an offer on my timeshare. They claim that they resold it two days later to another person for more than twice what they paid me. The sales documents clearly show that I sold directly to that person, though, so now I am reclaiming the difference.

Has anyone fallen for this scam? Does anyone know the most influential licensing or regulatory agencies to contact to bring pressure against the reseller?

Thanks!

What is the scam, sounds like you accepted what they paid you?

[Beaglemom3 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Beaglemom3]

I know you're upset and feel taken and that's one issue.

The other issue is to whom the profit went and why it is reported as you described.

It depends on the state where the t/s seller agency (I'm assuming it's an agency) and where you live. You can contact your state's (or the state where the deal was made) Attorney General's consumer affairs division for direction.

Are you willing to post the name of the seller ? This could be helpful. Also, you might want to read your contract again.

I think I know what Spence is saying in that, for example, if I sold my old car to a neighbor and he turned around and re-sold it for twice what I sold it to him for, there is nothing illegal with that.

[vintner Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close vintner]

I am wondering about the tax issues or other complications. If the documents show that danno sold the ts (throwing out numbers for example only) for 200 and he received only 100, then is he liable for the taxes on 200 without ever getting the 200? Will anything else come about because of the way the paperwork was drawn up?

Sure, I can see why danno would be concerned. He sold the ts for 100. That is what he agreed to sell it for and I think he accepts that. But the paperwork should reflect that information. If the paperwork says he sold it for 200, then he should receive the 200. Seem that either fix the paperwork so it shows the 100 that he was paid, or give him the 200 that the paperwork shows he was paid.

If I misread the post, I apologize, but I think the concern for me is that the paperwork is not correct.

[Keitht Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Keitht]

There are surely a number of issues here.
1. As mentioned above, the paperwork doesn't match the actual monies received by the vendor.
2. The potential tax implications of this to the vendor.
3. The paperwork suggests that nothing went to the intermediary i.e. the agent so presumably they would not be declaring the profit that they made. That sounds like potential tax evasion to me.

[tonyg Goomba & Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close tonyg]

I would contact the state real estate department of the state the reseller is located in.

[Bill4728 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Bill4728]

Remember this is exactly what the postcard companies regularly do.

They get the TS and $4000, then sell the TS and get the money, but the paperwork shows that the 1st owner sold the TS to the final owner and the PCC isn't involved. Looks to me like Tax fraud.

[GrayFal Silver Contributor and supermoderator Find all posts View Profile Close GrayFal]

Remember this is exactly what the postcard companies regularly do.

They get the TS and $4000, then sell the TS and get the money, but the paperwork shows that the 1st owner sold the TS to the final owner and the PCC isn't involved. Looks to me like Tax fraud.

Yup - that is how they do it....even Holiday Group says they 'own' the TSs they sell, but when u get the paperwork, they have a power of attorney from the owner to do the closing. So Holiday never actually 'owned' the week in the sense that they didn't change the deed to their name.

[Spence Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Spence]

Yup - that is how they do it....even Holiday Group says they 'own' the TSs they sell, but when u get the paperwork, they have a power of attorney from the owner to do the closing. So Holiday never actually 'owned' the week in the sense that they didn't change the deed to their name.

My purchases from HG have been the way you describe but my eBay purchases from PCC sources have always been in the name of the corporation.

[GrayFal Silver Contributor and supermoderator Find all posts View Profile Close GrayFal]

My purchases from HG have been the way you describe but my eBay purchases from PCC sources have always been in the name of the corporation.

My 'Vininc' purchase last January on ebay also had the POA attached to the deed.

[danno Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close danno]

It was Rapid Resale -- beware of them!

There are other posts about this company on this website. Beware of their underhanded tactics.

I have not accepted the money from them which is why I am fighting this. The buyer himself has stated that he bought the ts from me and not from Rapid Resale. The documents show that the sale was direct between myself and the buyer. All that Rapid Resale did was to misrepresent the transaction as if they had bought it from me and sold it to the real buyer but the paperwork clearly shows that this is not the case.

The reseller is in Ontario, the closing escrow agent is in the US (Montana I think) and the time share is in Orlando. Does anyone know which jurisdiction would cover this given the three locations in two countries?

Clearly the amounts involved are not economically worth the cost of fighting this but I feel so angry at these slimeballs that I am not going to let them get away with what is essentially stealing. Also, I doubt that I am the only one who this has happened to either by this company or by others like them.

Thanks for your replies and if anyone has more to add, I greatly welcome it!

[Theo Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Theo]

Missing details....

Sorry to further complicate this discussion, but with all due respect, in reviewing the OP and subsequent replies, I see no real details provided or addressed about the following key points:

1. What exactly does the contract document state --- and did you sign it?

Legally, this will likely be the overriding and determining instrument if it has been voluntarily completed and signed by both of the involved parties (you and the reseller). If you have agreed in writing and under signature to a particular price, I don't think you have a snowballs' chance in Hades of recovering any portion of the "difference" between what you voluntarily agreed to under signature and whatever the higher "turnaround" figure obtained by the reseller might be. Just my opinion, although I'm sure you don't like that answer one bit.....

2. Has a deed already been prepared, signed by both you and the buyer and recorded? If so, this is already a "done deal", regardless of whether or not you "accept" the payment of the (contractually agreed) figure. Then again, if the (unnamed) MT escrow / closing entity is Resort Closings, Inc., this part has likely not been completed yet at all, since they are about as slow as cold molasses.

Neither of these details /points / issues above are really answered in the OP (or later), but both are critical and relevant. I sincerely doubt that your refusal to "accept" payment of a (contractually agreed upon, under signature) selling figure helps or bolsters your case or position in any way.

Absent some of the missing but critically important details here, it certainly sounds like a classic PCC operation, in which (in the U.S. anyhow) the PCC circumvents state real estate licensing requirements (and saves a few dollars in the process) by never actually putting their own name on a deed in between the seller and new buyer transactions. This is exactly what has "We Collect Timeshares" jammed up with state licensing authorities in Washington state right now. The fact that your reseller is in Canada, however, further clouds and complicates some of the legal issues here.

The bottom line, however, is that if you signed a contract for a certain and specific amount of money, then you are unlikely to be entitled to receive a dime above that amount, regardless of whatever figure the reseller manages to command from someone else. All you can realistically hope to do (if it's not already too late) is stop the transaction completely and sell the timeshare yourself (but not to the current buyer). If that's even a possibility, and you terminate the process (i.e., breach a contract, if that's even the case here), you may well still ultimately be liable for damages --- i.e., the costs incurred by the closing company and the reseller for their time and efforts in finding a willing buyer, if they choose to "chase" you for same.

I'm sure you don't like this input, but it's my objective opinion and assessment (you did ask...) based upon the incomplete information presented and some missing details which are of of critical importance. The fact that Rapid Resale may have a bad reputation (perhaps well deserved) is ultimately completely irrelevant to the specifics of your particular situation.

Oh........Please don't shoot the messenger.

There are other posts about this company on this website. Beware of their underhanded tactics.

I have not accepted the money from them which is why I am fighting this. The buyer himself has stated that he bought the ts from me and not from Rapid Resale. The documents show that the sale was direct between myself and the buyer. All that Rapid Resale did was to misrepresent the transaction as if they had bought it from me and sold it to the real buyer but the paperwork clearly shows that this is not the case.

The reseller is in Ontario, the closing escrow agent is in the US (Montana I think) and the time share is in Orlando. Does anyone know which jurisdiction would cover this given the three locations in two countries?

Clearly the amounts involved are not economically worth the cost of fighting this but I feel so angry at these slimeballs that I am not going to let them get away with what is essentially stealing. Also, I doubt that I am the only one who this has happened to either by this company or by others like them.

Thanks for your replies and if anyone has more to add, I greatly welcome it!

[GrayFal Silver Contributor and supermoderator Find all posts View Profile Close GrayFal]

Theo - interesting info.

It makes me believe this practice is much more common then most realize. I have to agree that the OP doesn't have any 'rights' to the difference in monies but it puts into question who actually 'owns' the TS at the time of resale.

[Theo Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Theo]

Theo - interesting info.

It makes me believe this practice is much more common then most realize. I have to agree that the OP doesn't have any 'rights' to the difference in monies but it puts into question who actually 'owns' the TS at the time of resale.

....precisely why the content and and wording of the executed contract document, as well as the actual and current deed status at any given moment in time (both of these important items of info are entirely absent within this particular discussion) are critically relevant and important....

[aussiegirl Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close aussiegirl]

Hi all -

Not sure if this information will be helpful in all cases, but IF the actual closing does not reflect what is in the contract, than in the several states I am familiar with your best avenue to address the problem with with the state's Department of Insurance. That is often the department that regulates closing companies. I also agree with a previous post that the state's Attorney General is also a good place to go for assistance - several have excellent consumer protection divisions.
Finally, I believe that tax-wise you are responsible for your net income from the sale which is your gross sale minus transaction costs, not the full gross. So the key is being able to prove that your actual net proceeds are what you really received and no more. If the documents don't accurately reflect your proceeds ---- onward to one of the state agencies listed above!!!